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OT: The Pittsburgher Thread: Ploff wins?!? Fire Tomlin

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Mr Jiggyfly said:
Steelers went 25 years between SBs.

Cowher’s teams in the 90s had some of the best defenses and running games of that era.

Those teams dominated on D and pounded teams into the ground.

That got them zero SBs.

Again, not a coincidence the Steelers formula suddenly worked and they won their first SB in 25 years by Roth’s second year.
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The Steelers formula with Ben is the same formula the bills are using with Allen. They are coaching Allen to not turn it over. Ben more successful playoff runs he wasn’t the gunslinger Ben
 
Peat said:
You don't think they took BPA in the last two drafts? Those are the two I'm talking about, where their stance on taking younger players seems to have notably shifted.
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Last two they absolutely did. Kenny and Najee they didn't. That was my original point. I don't think Kenny or Najee were picked as the best player at their slot. They were old and filled in a leadership position that they needed.
MrBrightside said:
Ben's postseason struggles spanned multiple head coaches, numerous offensive coordinators, and almost 20 years of play. Was late-stage Ben hampered by shitty coaching with Tomlin and Fichtner? Sure. But he had a lot of clunkers throughout his career in the postseason. One can acknowledge this and still believe he was a great QB.
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Ben's postseason before Tomlin was exceptional. He was 5-1 in the playoffs. He appeared in the playoffs 12 more times and was 5-7 - 3 coming in Tomlin's 1st year (Super Bowl win), 2 coming Super Bowl loss.

Late stage Ben had no elbow. Ben's career effectively ended against Seattle when his elbow popped.

Many of his clunkers were full team failures...which falls on preparation...which falls on the coaching staff. Ben wasn't perfect...no QB is, but I'd put him against any of them, and I don't particularly like the dude.
 
Empoleon8771 said:
The fact that Wilson seemingly really wants to re-sign with the Steelers does make me wonder how cheaply they could get him to re-sign. If he's willing to take Fields money or less, do you go with him over Fields and plan on drafting a QB in 2026?

I'm generally for going with Fields moving forward, but Fields presumably being cheaper is a major part of that.
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I'd say Russ because a big fear of mine is that Fields isn't good enough to be 'the guy' (I don't think he is), but he's good enough that they keep thinking "Well, maybe..." and pass on making QB the top priority. At Russ' age, they would know they don't have their QB of the future and be more likely to do what is necessary in 2026.
 
MrBrightside said:


So maybe...
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Or maybe Justin Fields, and why wouldn't Justin Fields go? I would if I were him after seeing what Carroll was able to do with Geno Smith. New stadium. Owner with more money than brains. Carroll should be able to bring stability there if Davis lets him.
 
Mr Jiggyfly said:
Steelers went 25 years between SBs.

Cowher’s teams in the 90s had some of the best defenses and running games of that era.

Those teams dominated on D and pounded teams into the ground.

That got them zero SBs.

Again, not a coincidence the Steelers formula suddenly worked and they won their first SB in 25 years by Roth’s second year.
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Yeah, bro. He's a HOF QB and they don't win without him. But he doesn't win without a good team around him either.

That's why saying he has the same amount of rings as Manning and more than Brees is meaningless when evaluating them as individuals.
 
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JTG said:
Last two they absolutely did. Kenny and Najee they didn't. That was my original point. I don't think Kenny or Najee were picked as the best player at their slot. They were old and filled in a leadership position that they needed.

Ben's postseason before Tomlin was exceptional. He was 5-1 in the playoffs. He appeared in the playoffs 12 more times and was 5-7 - 3 coming in Tomlin's 1st year (Super Bowl win), 2 coming Super Bowl loss.

Late stage Ben had no elbow. Ben's career effectively ended against Seattle when his elbow popped.

Many of his clunkers were full team failures...which falls on preparation...which falls on the coaching staff. Ben wasn't perfect...no QB is, but I'd put him against any of them, and I don't particularly like the dude.
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It's admittedly a small sample size pre-Tomlin and he was young, but not really. In 2004 he was terrible against the Jets and they only won because Doug Brien missed a gimme FG, and then he threw 3 picks against the Patriots (2 TD and 5 INT in 2 games total). In 2005 he was up and down but was terrible in the Super Bowl. He threw 3 picks in the Jags' game during Tomlin's first season. I think Ben is a first ballot HOFer but he just wasn't very good in the postseason, at least not consistently.
 
JTG said:
Interesting. These Georgia dudes...
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Foster has said for 2 years Jones reminded him of Gilbert and it took Pouncey staying on him constantly and munch riding him. He said he is some Chuks in him because he lacks the want to to finish blocks
 
pistolpete11 said:
Yeah, bro. He's a HOF QB and they don't win without him. But he doesn't win without a good team around him either.

That's why saying he has the same amount of rings as Manning and more than Brees is meaningless when evaluating them as individuals.
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Brees and Rodgers don’t win without good teams around them either.

Neither does Brady or Manning.

That seems like a BS argument TBTH because all of these guys have had some extremely good teams around them over the years that provided ample opportunities to win SBs.

People always forget that a second year Roth went into Manning’s house at the height of his powers and beat him.

That Colts team was one of the most dominant of the decade, set an NFL record for most games holding a lead, won their first 13 games, and were the first team in NFL history to win their first 13 games and lose their first playoff game.

Ben threw the ball all over them in the first half and even made the game saving tackle.

Brees and Rodgers never went into an environment like that and pulled out a W.

They are more known for choking in the big moments than pulling off what Roth did.

Roth was the first QB in NFL history to run it all on the road as a wildcard and win a SB.

Ya he had a good team - but they don’t pull that trick off without him.
 
MrBrightside said:
It's admittedly a small sample size pre-Tomlin and he was young, but not really. In 2004 he was terrible against the Jets and they only won because Doug Brien missed a gimme FG, and then he threw 3 picks against the Patriots (2 TD and 5 INT in 2 games total). In 2005 he was up and down but was terrible in the Super Bowl. He threw 3 picks in the Jags' game during Tomlin's first season. I think Ben is a first ballot HOFer but he just wasn't very good in the postseason, at least not consistently.
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I think Ben did too much because those teams were just not ready to compete. Since he has left, that theory has not changed for me at all. We are playing at a handicap here.
 
JTG said:
I think Ben did too much because those teams were just not ready to compete. Since he has left, that theory has not changed for me at all. We are playing at a handicap here.
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Those teams weren't ready to compete? The 2004 team was 15-1. The 2005 team won the Super Bowl. He just wasn't very good in many of those playoff games despite being on a great team.

I'm fine leaving this here - Ben is a HOF QB who they don't win 2 Super Bowls without, so I don't want to spend a ton of time bashing him. I just think people forget/overlook that he had a lot of postseason struggles throughout his career. To be fair, he had some great postseasons - the 2005 Indy/Denver stretch and most of the 2008 Super Bowl run.
 
MrBrightside said:
Those teams weren't ready to compete? The 2004 team was 15-1. The 2005 team won the Super Bowl. He just wasn't very good in many of those playoff games despite being on a great team.

I'm fine leaving this here - Ben is a HOF QB who they don't win 2 Super Bowls without, so I don't want to spend a ton of time bashing him. I just think people forget/overlook that he had a lot of postseason struggles throughout his career. To be fair, he had some great postseasons - the 2005 Indy/Denver stretch and most of the 2008 Super Bowl run.
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Killer B era.
 
JTG said:
Last two they absolutely did. Kenny and Najee they didn't. That was my original point. I don't think Kenny or Najee were picked as the best player at their slot. They were old and filled in a leadership position that they needed.
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Yeah, last two is what I'm talking about. Seems a big swing in philosophy in how often they take older dudes.
 
Mr Jiggyfly said:
Brees and Rodgers don’t win without good teams around them either.

Neither does Brady or Manning.
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I literally said that in my original post. That's why it's stupid to use Super Bowl rings as an argument on who's a better individual player. It's a team accomplishment, a lot of which is outside of any individual player's control.

Have a nice day.
 
Double-Shift Lasse said:
I'm not sure Ben should be taking a backseat to Brees. I know he has numbers and I know he was an incredible player I'm not trying to cast aspersions on DB.
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Brees had the best accuracy of any QB probably in NFL history. You guys need to take off the homer glasses.
JTG said:
Last two they absolutely did. Kenny and Najee they didn't. That was my original point. I don't think Kenny or Najee were picked as the best player at their slot. They were old and filled in a leadership position that they needed.

Ben's postseason before Tomlin was exceptional. He was 5-1 in the playoffs. He appeared in the playoffs 12 more times and was 5-7 - 3 coming in Tomlin's 1st year (Super Bowl win), 2 coming Super Bowl loss.

Late stage Ben had no elbow. Ben's career effectively ended against Seattle when his elbow popped.

Many of his clunkers were full team failures...which falls on preparation...which falls on the coaching staff. Ben wasn't perfect...no QB is, but I'd put him against any of them, and I don't particularly like the dude.
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Roethlisberger was terrible in two of those 5 wins, against NYJ and Seattle in the SB. He still won because they had the best roster in the league
 
pistolpete11 said:
I literally said that in my original post. That's why it's stupid to use Super Bowl rings as an argument on who's a better individual player. It's a team accomplishment, a lot of which is outside of any individual player's control.

Have a nice day.
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Brees and Rodgers came by their reputation of choking in big moments the honest way.

Some guys pass for a lot of yards in the regular season (Brees Rodgers) and some guys get it done in the big moments (Roth E Manning).

That’s exactly why two of these guys have an extra ring, not because any of them lacked the teams to win multiple rings.

Have a splendid day yourself.
 
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bambamcam4ever said:
Brees had the best accuracy of any QB probably in NFL history. You guys need to take off the homer glasses.
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True, but...
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Goalie_Bob said:
Burrow and Tua have no where near enough sample size to be considered above Brees. Let's see where they are in another 10 years.

You can also see how much of a recency bias there is in that stat.
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It was more if you take out all the actives, which you cannot do for some reason, Ben is 8th and only ~3% behind Brees.
 
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