OT: The Pittsburgher Thread: Ploff wins?!? Fire Tomlin

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Ben played in a totally different league. I don't give a shit what league you are playing...Ben is a Pro Bowler any year you want to pick. The veil has come off since he has retired. Are his postseason failures on him, or on the gameplan/prep? Because right now...not sure I'd put the playoff failures at the feet of Ben.


Generational to me means they transcend the era they played. In the 2000's, that was the 2nd golden era for QB'ing. I think the 3rd one is coming here in the next 2-3 years.

Ben, Rivers, and Eli will always be underrated because of how good Brady, Manning, and Brees were.

Welcome to the offseason, everyone.

The ultimate goal is to win SBs. Fantasy football has warped fans minds about what truly matters.

Roth had the same amount of SB rings as P Manning and one more than Brees.

If they can find another guy capable of winning another SB, let alone two, I’d be stoked as hell.

I suspect there will be a lot of Woodley, Stout, Malone, Brister, O’Donnell, Tomczak, Stewart, Miller, Graham, Maddox and the likes before they find him.

Maybe by then certain Steeler fans will come to appreciate how good Roth was.

 

[MrBrightside]

Ben played in a totally different league. I don't give a shit what league you are playing...Ben is a Pro Bowler any year you want to pick. The veil has come off since he has retired. Are his postseason failures on him, or on the gameplan/prep? Because right now...not sure I'd put the playoff failures at the feet of Ben.

Ben's postseason struggles spanned multiple head coaches, numerous offensive coordinators, and almost 20 years of play. Was late-stage Ben hampered by shitty coaching with Tomlin and Fichtner? Sure. But he had a lot of clunkers throughout his career in the postseason. One can acknowledge this and still believe he was a great QB.

 

[MrBrightside]

 

[pistolpete11]

Generational to me means a guy like this only comes around once in a generation. Which obviously wasn't Ben considering there were better QBs in his generation.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

Ben played in a totally different league. I don't give a shit what league you are playing...Ben is a Pro Bowler any year you want to pick. The veil has come off since he has retired. Are his postseason failures on him, or on the gameplan/prep? Because right now...not sure I'd put the playoff failures at the feet of Ben.


Generational to me means they transcend the era they played. In the 2000's, that was the 2nd golden era for QB'ing. I think the 3rd one is coming here in the next 2-3 years.

Ben, Rivers, and Eli will always be underrated because of how good Brady, Manning, and Brees were.

Welcome to the offseason, everyone.

Being a pro bowler means nothing Minka is a pro bowler this season. The guy got 0 mvp votes. Rodgers had a better career than Ben

 

[ChaosAgent]

"Generational" 5th-8th best QB any given year

 

[The Old Master]

"generational" are we talking fruit flies?

 

[pistolpete11]

The ultimate goal is to win SBs. Fantasy football has warped fans minds about what truly matters.

Roth had the same amount of SB rings as P Manning and one more than Brees.

QB is the most consequential position in football, probably all of sports, but still they get too much credit and too much blame for team success and failure. You need a lot else to go right to win the Super Bowl.

As someone else said, Ben will rightfully waltz right into the HOF, but he only made it to the Super Bowl when he had a top 3 (or better) defense. Same reason why Peyton got his second one when he was obviously a shell of his former self. As much as it might pain me to admit, Brady is the GOAT, but even he doesn't get there without good defenses and a few big time kicks from a HOF kicker.

So Super Bowl rings alone isn't enough to judge individual players.

 

[xlm34]

I wonder if they’d go after Wilson. I know there were some rumors that Wilson tried to get Carroll fired, but reuniting with an old coach and trying to beat Payton twice a year seems like it would be appealing for Russ.

 

[MrBrightside]

Well, Caroll was there when they traded Wilson so I'd guess no, but I'm all for him being the Raiders' QB next year and not the Steelers' QB.

 

[Empoleon8771]

The fact that Wilson seemingly really wants to re-sign with the Steelers does make me wonder how cheaply they could get him to re-sign. If he's willing to take Fields money or less, do you go with him over Fields and plan on drafting a QB in 2026?

I'm generally for going with Fields moving forward, but Fields presumably being cheaper is a major part of that.

 

[Peat]

I don't think the correct picks were made, using hindsight. I get why they made those picks. They wanted older guys for a young room...but I think right now we would be in a better position if we just took the BPA at the time.

I thought we were going to pay for Linderbaum for a while, but we got Frazier.

You don't think they took BPA in the last two drafts? Those are the two I'm talking about, where their stance on taking younger players seems to have notably shifted.

 

[MrBrightside]

The fact that Wilson seemingly really wants to re-sign with the Steelers does make me wonder how cheaply they could get him to re-sign. If he's willing to take Fields money or less, do you go with him over Fields and plan on drafting a QB in 2026?

I'm generally for going with Fields moving forward, but Fields presumably being cheaper is a major part of that.

I don't want Wilson even if he played at the same price as he did 2024. They have to change that position - a guy who is too short and therefore can't throw from the pocket who's losing his legs is not a viable option.

 

[xlm34]

The fact that Wilson seemingly really wants to re-sign with the Steelers does make me wonder how cheaply they could get him to re-sign. If he's willing to take Fields money or less, do you go with him over Fields and plan on drafting a QB in 2026?

I'm generally for going with Fields moving forward, but Fields presumably being cheaper is a major part of that.

I’d still go Fields even if they cost the same. I recognize it’s not likely, but there’s the smallest chance that he could be a longer term option so I’d like to see him get a full year.

I’m sure he Wilson want to come back because this is one of the few places I think he would be the guaranteed starter, but I also think there’s some ego there where he’s not going to take much less than a Geno Smith/Mayfield type of contract. His Mcafee appearance just felt like a political campaign.

 

[cookthebooks]

seems highly likely to me at least that wilsons excitement at returning to the steelers is inversely proportional to how good the offers are elsewhere

 

[MrBrightside]

Judkins declared for the draft. The odds on getting a very good option at RB in the 3rd or 4th rounds increase daily.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I’d still go Fields even if they cost the same. I recognize it’s not likely, but there’s the smallest chance that he could be a longer term option so I’d like to see him get a full year.

I’m sure he Wilson want to come back because this is one of the few places I think he would be the guaranteed starter, but I also think there’s some ego there where he’s not going to take much less than a Geno Smith/Mayfield type of contract. His Mcafee appearance just felt like a political campaign.

I'm pretty skeptical that Fields ends up a long term option, but with the 2025 class being horrible, I think you're likely right that going with Fields is the best bet for next year. If the 2025 QB class wasn't terrible, I think you go one more year with Wilson and draft a guy high this year to sit behind him for at least the first half of 2025.

The worst case scenario would be one that someone jokingly posted a few days ago, Wilson starting and drafting Milroe to sit behind him for 2025.

 

[MrBrightside]

So maybe...

 

[Empoleon8771]

So maybe...

Minshew's contract was also structured so there would basically be no penalty to cutting him after this year, so it seems like an obvious match. Run with Wilson and O'Connell to start and draft a guy as soon as you're in a position to draft someone.

They may be in a position to draft a QB this year based on what the Titans do, but Ward and Sanders are most likely gone by #6.

 

[MrBrightside]

I wouldn't hate Minshew as the backup here if the Raiders did go that direction and we go with Fields.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

The fact that Wilson seemingly really wants to re-sign with the Steelers does make me wonder how cheaply they could get him to re-sign. If he's willing to take Fields money or less, do you go with him over Fields and plan on drafting a QB in 2026?

I'm generally for going with Fields moving forward, but Fields presumably being cheaper is a major part of that.

It’s probably because we are the only team that would give Wilson pole position. I still think if Vegas is interested his wife would prefer Vegas as an entertainer

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

QB is the most consequential position in football, probably all of sports, but still they get too much credit and too much blame for team success and failure. You need a lot else to go right to win the Super Bowl.

As someone else said, Ben will rightfully waltz right into the HOF, but he only made it to the Super Bowl when he had a top 3 (or better) defense. Same reason why Peyton got his second one when he was obviously a shell of his former self. As much as it might pain me to admit, Brady is the GOAT, but even he doesn't get there without good defenses and a few big time kicks from a HOF kicker.

So Super Bowl rings alone isn't enough to judge individual players.

Steelers went 25 years between SBs.

Cowher’s teams in the 90s had some of the best defenses and running games of that era.

Those teams dominated on D and pounded teams into the ground.

That got them zero SBs.

Again, not a coincidence the Steelers formula suddenly worked and they won their first SB in 25 years by Roth’s second year.

 

[xlm34]

Well, Caroll was there when they traded Wilson so I'd guess no, but I'm all for him being the Raiders' QB next year and not the Steelers' QB.

I think that trade was always more Wilson/front office driven than Carroll:

Simmering tension, a 'declining player' and a public breakup: Inside Seattle's trade of Russell Wilson

Wilson's personal aspirations conflicted with a Seahawks organization that had different goals and was skeptical about its QB's long-term future.

www.espn.com

He basically seemed to think Seattle was holding him back. Obviously that was not the case.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

Ben, Rivers, and Eli will always be underrated because of how good Brady, Manning, and Brees were.

I'm not sure Ben should be taking a backseat to Brees. I know he has numbers and I know he was an incredible player I'm not trying to cast aspersions on DB.

 

[Pens1566]

I'm not sure Ben should be taking a backseat to Brees. I know he has numbers and I know he was an incredible player I'm not trying to cast aspersions on DB.

I kind of agree. Brees played in much more wide open schemes. Put Ben in that environment and I don't think there's a #s argument in Brees favor.