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OT: The Pittsburgher Thread: Off Season We dont need a QB Edition

Yeah, I don't know that next year's class has that many guys better than Ward, but it's looking like there will be more guys worthy of a 1st. Assuming the Steelers finish with 9-10 wins, that might be just as important. A whole lot easier to move from 20-ish OV to 10 OV or whatever than 1 OV.
 
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Peat said:
I respect the honesty but A's wild, man :laugh: You think Allar and Klubnik and Nussmeier just turned down the chance to go first overall in the draft, top five for sure, for the unknowns of college football? Maybe one of them, but all three of them?

But in any case, this feels like a bunch of different arguments.

Re the point that predicting QB classes a year ahead of time is really difficult - Yeah, there were people saying this wasn't a humdinger (there are also people who follow college football who say predicting QB classes a year out is a fool's errand). I don't think any of them called it being this bad to this extent. I just searched for Beck to try and get a feeling for what people thought of it, and I didn't see a lot of pushback on you saying O/U 4.5 later September.

Plus if they did, and are that accurate repeatedly, they're in the wrong job because the media people got it really wrong.

Re this next class being potentially special and next year being better than this -

I'm certainly not betting against next year being better than this, because on average, most classes will be. This year suuuuucks. It's one legit guy, one more accurate Pickett with a cool name, Jaxson Dart is a Desmon Ridder type, and from there on it's long-ass bets all the way down.

Next year being special? To me, that's betting on a coin toss. As I said, I like the number of lottery tickets. But there's been far too many falls from grace for me to start betting on guys.

I do think you're being overly low on Ward though and I think that goes for Zierlein too. Zierlein's grades effectively have him T-25th. Brugler has him 15th, Jeremiah has him 10th, and the Athletic consensus big board has him 12th. It feels like Zierlein is a lot more scared of Ward's decision making than the others, and think he'll take longer to come good. Maybe he's right but as a follower of the great god consensus, right now he is an outlier.

If there's 4 QBs in next year's class in the top 15 in Brugler's rankings, I'll recognise it is indeed special and you called it. 2024 had 3. 2021 had 4.
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Yes I legitimately think that if asked to grade those three QB's + Ward right now, some teams would have Ward 4th. IDK if it's a majority of teams but I bet there are a few. He was a relatively unknown prospect until like 2 years ago. Dude started at the University of Incarnate Word.

I like to use Zierlein because 1. no paywall and 2. he provides a numerical prospect grade that you can try to compare across years. For the purposes of this argument, I think it gets tricky when you talk about "X amount of QB's in the top 15" because now we're bringing other position groups into the equation instead of just looking at the strength of a particular QB class.

I think Brugler's write-ups are probably the best in the business, I'm curious where he'll have Ward in his beast guide later this week. The Titans have apparently cancelled their private workout with Sanders so it looks like Ward is a lock for 1.01. But having the top QB in a class be your 15th best prospect kind of says how shitty this year is for QB's. And honestly I don't think it's just the QB's. One of the constant theme's I've been reading about this years class is just how shallow it is. Zierlein only has 7 players above a 6.5 grade. I forget who, might've been someone on ESPN, saying he only had like 12 or 13 guys with a first round grade.

All I'm really pleading for the Steelers to do is to make an informed decision and take a chance that you'll have better odds of lucking into a franchise QB next year.
 
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WickedWrister said:
Yes I legitimately think that if asked to grade those three QB's + Ward right now, some teams would have Ward 4th. IDK if it's a majority of teams but I bet there are a few. He was a relatively unknown prospect until like 2 years ago. Dude started at the University of Incarnate Word.

I like to use Zierlein because 1. no paywall and 2. he provides a numerical prospect grade that you can try to compare across years. For the purposes of this argument, I think it gets tricky when you talk about "X amount of QB's in the top 15" because now we're bringing other position groups into the equation instead of just looking at the strength of a particular QB class.
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I generally like Zierlein for that comparable grade too, but in this case, he's just so much lower than everyone else on the dude it just doesn't make sense to use him as the measuring stick.

WickedWrister said:
I think Brugler's write-ups are probably the best in the business, I'm curious where he'll have Ward in his beast guide later this week. The Titans have apparently cancelled their private workout with Sanders so it looks like Ward is a lock for 1.01. But having the top QB in a class be your 15th best prospect kind of says how shitty this year is for QB's. And honestly I don't think it's just the QB's. One of the constant theme's I've been reading about this years class is just how shallow it is. Zierlein only has 7 players above a 6.5 grade. I forget who, might've been someone on ESPN, saying he only had like 12 or 13 guys with a first round grade.

All I'm really pleading for the Steelers to do is to make an informed decision and take a chance that you'll have better odds of lucking into a franchise QB next year.
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No argument from me there about waiting a year. And yeah, everything I'm reading says this year is very shallow at the top for everything, as well as QBs.
 


Uh oh. Guys have been invited and not gone in round 1, but they aren’t gonna invite a guy that’s going to sit around for 3 rounds.

Edit: I actually forgot that happened to Malik Willis.
 
xlm34 said:


Uh oh. Guys have been invited and not gone in round 1, but they aren’t gonna invite a guy that’s going to sit around for 3 rounds.

Edit: I actually forgot that happened to Malik Willis.
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Well they ain't gonna do it on purpose :laugh:
 
WickedWrister said:
All I'm really pleading for the Steelers to do is to make an informed decision and take a chance that you'll have better odds of lucking into a franchise QB next year.
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This x1,000,000.

Frankly, if next year's class falls apart, I'd apply it to next year, too. Taking a guy just because you want to say you have "your franchise guy" is a road to nowhere. Obviously you can't wait around until you have a shot at a Manning or Burrow or whatever, but the guy you take needs to have real upside, even if it's less likely he reaches it. I don't think that's Sanders or Dart and I think Milroe is way too unlikely to reach his ceiling to use a 1st on.
 
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pistolpete11 said:
This x1,000,000.

Frankly, if next year's class falls apart, I'd apply it to next year, too. Taking a guy just because you want to say you have "your franchise guy" is a road to nowhere. Obviously you can't wait around until you have a shot at a Manning or Burrow or whatever, but the guy you take needs to have real upside, even if it's less likely he reaches it. I don't think that's Sanders or Dart and I think Milroe is way too unlikely to reach his ceiling to use a 1st on.
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Yeah if they took Dart or Milroe in round 3 sure but both are over drafted in round 1. Sanders with the right system could be Tua. He is the best processor and anticipation throwing in this class. If he didn’t drift in the pocket and rely on his athleticism as much in college maybe a poor mans Burrow
 
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bigdaddyk88 said:
Yeah if they took Dart or Milroe in round 3 sure but both are over drafted in round 1. Sanders with the right system could be Tua. He is the best processor and anticipation throwing in this class. If he didn’t drift in the pocket and rely on his athleticism as much in college maybe a poor mans Burrow
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Yeah, I should probably take that back about Sanders. I'd be fine taking a shot at him. I'd just hate the added media attention because of his dad. But he won't be there at 21 and he's not worth trading up for.

Dart, I don't really get at all, even in the 3rd, TBH. Everything I've read about him is a low ceiling with a maybe higher floor. If everything goes right, we get a low end starter? Great, what's that do for us? Milroe is boom/bust with a high probability of bust, but if he does work out, you'd at least have something there.
 
There is zero chance that Milroe is drafted in round 1. Who even in round 1 would want to take him?

Dart I can kinda see, he's more of a 2nd round talent that could be overdrafted. But Milroe is a lot closer to Malik Willis, who was a late 3rd rounder.
 
I actually wonder if Malik Willis might get another chance in the next couple years. He looked good in his two starts in GB. He just had no business playing as much as he did in his rookie year.
 
MrBrightside said:
I don't think there's any chance they take Dart at 21. I think they are doing due diligence in case they trade back and maybe have 2 2nds instead and Dart is there in the 2nd.
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This is kinda where I think it's heading: a trade back knowing the DL is deep in this class.

So the Steelers trade out of 21 and fall back a little and they get a QB and a DLineman.
 
Empoleon8771 said:
There is zero chance that Milroe is drafted in round 1. Who even in round 1 would want to take him?

Dart I can kinda see, he's more of a 2nd round talent that could be overdrafted. But Milroe is a lot closer to Malik Willis, who was a late 3rd rounder.
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I’m only kind of joking. If they do something unexpected and reach for a QB round one, I’d bet on it being Milroe over Dart.

At this point, I think Milroe goes early second to the Giants or Browns. The draft invite thing is too weird to me. Guys have been invited and slipped, but they don’t invite someone unless there’s a decent indication they’ll go early.
 
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If this team selects Milroe in the first, a lot of people will go "we should have known all along from the signs" because there's been a ton of signs.

Ton of interest too in Dart tbh.

But who knows. None of this is making sense to me. It seems just as plausible that someone in the NFL front office is a smooth liar with a humiliation of QBs kink, and has got Milroe invited just so they can watch video of him sliding while jacking off.
 
xlm34 said:
The draft invite thing is too weird to me. Guys have been invited and slipped, but they don’t invite someone unless there’s a decent indication they’ll go early.
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Malik Willis was invited and was picked in the 3rd round.

I just think, Milroe is a high profile guy from a big program and is willing to show up. Nothing more.
 
Re the Milroe invite





The comps to previous years where the NFL swung and miss on inviting guys are slightly off because it looks like the NFL has changed how they do business. They're reducing numbers, presumably so they don't have a guy sitting there not going.

I'm not going to say this definitely means he's going round 1, but I think it's pretty clear this is what the league expects and they've changed their process on this sort of thing so it's less uncertain than before.
 
Ok, we are closing in on our 5th round pick in HFBoards NFL Mock Draft. So far we have chosen:

1:21 - Derrick Harmon, DT, Oregon
3:83 - Jacob Parrish, CB, Kansas State
4:123 - DJ Giddens, RB, Kansas State

Potential at Pick 156:

QB: Tyler Shough (59-0-186-89), Riley Leonard (0-0-124-0), Dillon Gabriel (0-0-136-130), Kyle McCord (0-0-163-137)

WR: Isaac TeSlaa (0-0-111-115), Konata MumpField (0-0-0-152), Jaylin Lane (0-0-159-0)

TE: Mitchell Evans (0-0-143-143), Benjamin Yurosek (0-0-147-0), Jackson Hawes (0-0-0-116), Jalin Conyers (0-0-0-146), Moliki Matavao (0-0-0-148)

OT: Jalen Rivers (0-0-129-130), Brandon Crenshaw-Dickson (0-0-132-0), Ajani Cornelius (0-0-150-195), Carson Vinson (0-0-0-116), Jalen Travis (0-0-0-153), Emery Jones (0-0-191-133), Logan Brown (0-0-180-167)

OG: Luke Kandra (0-0-155-0), Connor Colby (0-0-173-165), Tyler Cooper (0-0-175-0), Caleb Rogers (0-0-0-108), Dylan Fairchild (0-0-0-147)

DL: Jamaree Caldwell (0-0-118-73), Vernon Broughton (0-0-78-136), Elijah Roberts (0-0-82-114), Howard Cross (0-0-0-149)

Edge: Quandarrius Robinson (0-0-119-0), Barryn Sorrell (0-0-122-102), Ahmed Hassanein (0-0-133-0), Antwaun Powell-Ryland (0-0-136-0), Tyler Batty (0-0-145-0), Jah Joyner (0-0-0-151)

S: Maxen Hook, (0-0-0-154), Kitan Crawford (0-0-0-149), Craig Woodson (0-0-0-156)

The Number beside each name:
  • Dane Brugler’s Big Board 100 (Feb 11th) – no update since combine
  • Daniel Jeremiah Top 50 (Mar 6th)
  • PFF Big Board Top 200 (Apr 6th)
  • 33rd Team Top 200 (Apr 4th)

Some interesting guys left at this point.

Jamaree Caldwell: Old school Casey Hampton style NT, 6-1, 340
Isaac TeSlaa: Big Slot receiver with some gas and tenacious blocking, 6-3.5, 214, 4.43
Tyler Shough: Big Experienced QB, injury concerns, like 27 years old
Mitchell Evans: Heath Miller style TE, good blocker and receiver with no moves, 6-5, 256
Quandarrius Robinson: Big Twitchy Edge, 6-5, 241

The OT and OG are extremely meh. Nobody jumps out and it would be better to wait til 6th-7th for one. Same with Safety.

I didn't include the RB or CBs because we chose one in the earlier rounds and don't need anymore.

I'm also of the thought that if Aaron Rodgers is signing. Then I wouldn't take a QB til the 7th. And I admit I have come around on that thinking. I've stated a few times that they should take a shot on a guy in the 3-5th round but I don't see the need if Rodgers is here, plus they have Mason and Skyler. Both Mason and Skyler are equal to any guy they pick in the 3-5 range.
 
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Goalie_Bob said:
Malik Willis was invited and was picked in the 3rd round.

I just think, Milroe is a high profile guy from a big program and is willing to show up. Nothing more.
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The difference is Willis was widely seen as a first rounder and it was a surprise to see him drop as much as he did. I can’t really remember the last time they invited a third ish round prospect to the draft.
 
Goalie_Bob said:
Ok, we are closing in on our 5th round pick in HFBoards NFL Mock Draft. So far we have chosen:

1:21 - Derrick Harmon, DT, Oregon
3:83 - Jacob Parrish, CB, Kansas State
4:123 - DJ Giddens, RB, Kansas State

Potential at Pick 156:

QB: Tyler Shough (59-0-186-89), Riley Leonard (0-0-124-0), Dillon Gabriel (0-0-136-130), Kyle McCord (0-0-163-137)

WR: Isaac TeSlaa (0-0-111-115), Konata MumpField (0-0-0-152), Jaylin Lane (0-0-159-0)

TE: Mitchell Evans (0-0-143-143), Benjamin Yurosek (0-0-147-0), Jackson Hawes (0-0-0-116), Jalin Conyers (0-0-0-146), Moliki Matavao (0-0-0-148)

OT: Jalen Rivers (0-0-129-130), Brandon Crenshaw-Dickson (0-0-132-0), Ajani Cornelius (0-0-150-195), Carson Vinson (0-0-0-116), Jalen Travis (0-0-0-153), Emery Jones (0-0-191-133), Logan Brown (0-0-180-167)

OG: Luke Kandra (0-0-155-0), Connor Colby (0-0-173-165), Tyler Cooper (0-0-175-0), Caleb Rogers (0-0-0-108), Dylan Fairchild (0-0-0-147)

DL: Jamaree Caldwell (0-0-118-73), Vernon Broughton (0-0-78-136), Elijah Roberts (0-0-82-114), Howard Cross (0-0-0-149)

Edge: Quandarrius Robinson (0-0-119-0), Barryn Sorrell (0-0-122-102), Ahmed Hassanein (0-0-133-0), Antwaun Powell-Ryland (0-0-136-0), Tyler Batty (0-0-145-0), Jah Joyner (0-0-0-151)

S: Maxen Hook, (0-0-0-154), Kitan Crawford (0-0-0-149), Craig Woodson (0-0-0-156)

The Number beside each name:
  • Dane Brugler’s Big Board 100 (Feb 11th) – no update since combine
  • Daniel Jeremiah Top 50 (Mar 6th)
  • PFF Big Board Top 200 (Apr 6th)
  • 33rd Team Top 200 (Apr 4th)

Some interesting guys left at this point.

Jamaree Caldwell: Old school Casey Hampton style NT, 6-1, 340
Isaac TeSlaa: Big Slot receiver with some gas and tenacious blocking, 6-3.5, 214, 4.43
Tyler Shough: Big Experienced QB, injury concerns, like 27 years old
Mitchell Evans: Heath Miller style TE, good blocker and receiver with no moves, 6-5, 256
Quandarrius Robinson: Big Twitchy Edge, 6-5, 241

The OT and OG are extremely meh. Nobody jumps out and it would be better to wait til 6th-7th for one. Same with Safety.

I didn't include the RB or CBs because we chose one in the earlier rounds and don't need anymore.

I'm also of the thought that if Aaron Rodgers is signing. Then I wouldn't take a QB til the 7th. And I admit I have come around on that thinking. I've stated a few times that they should take a shot on a guy in the 3-5th round but I don't see the need if Rodgers is here, plus they have Mason and Skyler. Both Mason and Skyler are equal to any guy they pick in the 3-5 range.
Click to expand...

I think Caldwell is the no brainer pick there.
 
pistolpete11 said:
This x1,000,000.

Frankly, if next year's class falls apart, I'd apply it to next year, too. Taking a guy just because you want to say you have "your franchise guy" is a road to nowhere. Obviously you can't wait around until you have a shot at a Manning or Burrow or whatever, but the guy you take needs to have real upside, even if it's less likely he reaches it. I don't think that's Sanders or Dart and I think Milroe is way too unlikely to reach his ceiling to use a 1st on.
Click to expand...
The team has needed a QB for years. We cant skip two more drafts.
 
Goalie_Bob said:
Ok, we are closing in on our 5th round pick in HFBoards NFL Mock Draft. So far we have chosen:

1:21 - Derrick Harmon, DT, Oregon
3:83 - Jacob Parrish, CB, Kansas State
4:123 - DJ Giddens, RB, Kansas State

Potential at Pick 156:

QB: Tyler Shough (59-0-186-89), Riley Leonard (0-0-124-0), Dillon Gabriel (0-0-136-130), Kyle McCord (0-0-163-137)

WR: Isaac TeSlaa (0-0-111-115), Konata MumpField (0-0-0-152), Jaylin Lane (0-0-159-0)

TE: Mitchell Evans (0-0-143-143), Benjamin Yurosek (0-0-147-0), Jackson Hawes (0-0-0-116), Jalin Conyers (0-0-0-146), Moliki Matavao (0-0-0-148)

OT: Jalen Rivers (0-0-129-130), Brandon Crenshaw-Dickson (0-0-132-0), Ajani Cornelius (0-0-150-195), Carson Vinson (0-0-0-116), Jalen Travis (0-0-0-153), Emery Jones (0-0-191-133), Logan Brown (0-0-180-167)

OG: Luke Kandra (0-0-155-0), Connor Colby (0-0-173-165), Tyler Cooper (0-0-175-0), Caleb Rogers (0-0-0-108), Dylan Fairchild (0-0-0-147)

DL: Jamaree Caldwell (0-0-118-73), Vernon Broughton (0-0-78-136), Elijah Roberts (0-0-82-114), Howard Cross (0-0-0-149)

Edge: Quandarrius Robinson (0-0-119-0), Barryn Sorrell (0-0-122-102), Ahmed Hassanein (0-0-133-0), Antwaun Powell-Ryland (0-0-136-0), Tyler Batty (0-0-145-0), Jah Joyner (0-0-0-151)

S: Maxen Hook, (0-0-0-154), Kitan Crawford (0-0-0-149), Craig Woodson (0-0-0-156)

The Number beside each name:
  • Dane Brugler’s Big Board 100 (Feb 11th) – no update since combine
  • Daniel Jeremiah Top 50 (Mar 6th)
  • PFF Big Board Top 200 (Apr 6th)
  • 33rd Team Top 200 (Apr 4th)

Some interesting guys left at this point.

Jamaree Caldwell: Old school Casey Hampton style NT, 6-1, 340
Isaac TeSlaa: Big Slot receiver with some gas and tenacious blocking, 6-3.5, 214, 4.43
Tyler Shough: Big Experienced QB, injury concerns, like 27 years old
Mitchell Evans: Heath Miller style TE, good blocker and receiver with no moves, 6-5, 256
Quandarrius Robinson: Big Twitchy Edge, 6-5, 241

The OT and OG are extremely meh. Nobody jumps out and it would be better to wait til 6th-7th for one. Same with Safety.

I didn't include the RB or CBs because we chose one in the earlier rounds and don't need anymore.

I'm also of the thought that if Aaron Rodgers is signing. Then I wouldn't take a QB til the 7th. And I admit I have come around on that thinking. I've stated a few times that they should take a shot on a guy in the 3-5th round but I don't see the need if Rodgers is here, plus they have Mason and Skyler. Both Mason and Skyler are equal to any guy they pick in the 3-5 range.
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Shough or Caldwell
 
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