OT: The Pittsburgher Thread: Off Season We dont need a QB Edition

[bigdaddyk88]

if your going to spend a high pick on one next year, it does seem a little dumb.

Need multiple bites at the apple

 

[bigdaddyk88]

Steelers i think would take Milroe. I’d probably go Bech or Parrish.

I don’t necessarily love a 3rd round RB at this point.

Smith loves Savion he is Patterson and Debo. Bech makes sense because we need another outside wr and Bech loves to block in the running game. I would take Bryant or Quincy as outside cb depth

 

[Harvey Birdman]

See I heavily disagree with this when it comes to the offence. I think that the offence had more or less bottomed out after losing a ton of talent in a hurry and that trying to rebuild it entirely with young guys and bargains was a high risk proposition that should have been reinforced by a big influx of money because otherwise you run the risk of having a bunch of draft picks wash out for want of support - which is exactly what has happened. The draft picks need support and if a team loses all their highly paid veterans, that means free agency and trade. The first iteration of that mistake happened in the Colbert years, but I'm not super jazzed about an OL with four dudes on rookie contracts next year as a repeat.

But more than that, and something where I feel like where we're not going to agree at this point, is that quite simply the way they are spending their money right now does not fill me with faith for how they will fill their holes once they've finally built through the draft.



Honestly, I used to regard this as a good thing, but now you've made me think about it and look some stuff up... the Eagles and Rams were both top 10 for dead cap when winning the SB in the last five years (top 5 in the Rams case) so is it really such a huge mistake when it's clearly non-crippling?

It’s a double edged sword. I think not having a lot of dead cap if you are a rebuilding team is a very good thing. It allows you flexibility as you draft and experiment with camp invites.

But a team as the Steelers are, not rebuilding in the traditional sense. It shows you are very risk adverse. But if they were high on that list it would be bad as a retooling team.

Now any dead cap is bad cap in a technical sense. But it would show if we at least were in the median on that list that the organization was at least taking some swings at finding players to improve the roster.

It’s a nuance and like a said a double edged sword sword but this is just another metric that give me pause that this team with this management and coaching has the ability to build a contender.

 

[Goalie_Bob]

I went with Jacob Parrish, CB, Kansas State. This team for years has needed a quick twitch guy with some speed that can play in the slot. Parrish can play outside as well.

2025 NFL Draft Scouting Report: Kansas State CB Jacob Parrish

From now until the 2025 NFL Draft, we will scout and create profiles for as many prospects as possible, examining their strengths, weaknesses, and what they can bring to an NFL franchise. These players could be potential top 10 picks, down to Day 3 selections, and priority undrafted free agents...

steelersdepot.com

He can learn a thing or two from Slay and compete with Trice.

 

[bambamcam4ever]

It’s a double edged sword. I think not having a lot of dead cap if you are a rebuilding team is a very good thing. It allows you flexibility as you draft and experiment with camp invites.

But a team as the Steelers are, not rebuilding in the traditional sense. It shows you are very risk adverse. But if they were high on that list it would be bad as a retooling team.

Now any dead cap is bad cap in a technical sense. But it would show if we at least were in the median on that list that the organization was at least taking some swings at finding players to improve the roster.

It’s a nuance and like a said a double edged sword sword but this is just another metric that give me pause that this team with this management and coaching has the ability to build a contender.

By rebuilding do you mean tanking? I can't think of an example of a SB winning team who intentionally bottomed out.

 

[Harvey Birdman]

By rebuilding do you mean tanking? I can't think of an example of a SB winning team who intentionally bottomed out.

No I don’t mean tanking in the sense of how we know it in the NHL. But this team has not done a strip down rebuild in the sense of when Ben was going out the door we have just been stuck on the middle. Which just keeps us exactly where we are.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

With Wilson’s contract now official, the Steelers are the only team since the AFL-NFL merger to completely change over their QB room two seasons in a row.

It has been 55 years since the merger, most of us weren’t even born yet, in fact.

Think about some of those poorly run org throughout those decades… Bucs, Lions, Browns, Jets etc.

Even those insanely bad 2000s Raiders teams when Davis really went off the hinges never pulled off this unprecedented feat.

The mighty Steelers stand alone, having reached a rarefied level of incompetence at evaluating the QB position.

If only there was a way to figure out the root cause behind something this historically embarrassing…

 

[bigdaddyk88]

With Wilson’s contract now official, the Steelers are the only team since the AFL-NFL merger to completely change over their QB room two seasons in a row.

It has been 55 years since the merger, most of us weren’t even born yet, in fact.

Think about some of those poorly run org throughout those decades… Bucs, Lions, Browns, Jets etc.

Even those insanely bad 2000s Raiders teams when Davis really went off the hinges never pulled off this unprecedented feat.

The mighty Steelers stand alone, having reached a rarefied level of incompetence at evaluating the QB position.

If only there was a way to figure out the root cause behind something this historically embarrassing…

How many of those teams entered seasons with 3 qbs on 1 year deals?
If they are only getting rogers for 1 year and don’t draft any development qb on day 3 at least it ends because Mason has 2 years on his contract

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

How many of those teams entered seasons with 3 qbs on 1 year deals?
If they are only getting rogers for 1 year and don’t draft any development qb on day 3 at least it ends because Mason has 2 years on his contract

There is no amount of denial that can excuse away this kind of incompetence from Tomlin.

No matter what BS you want to throw out there, it won’t put lipstick on this this kind of pig.

They are THE ONLY team to have pulled off this feat in 55 years.

55… years… come out of your deep denial and try to at least ponder the significance of what has happened here.

But this, but that, but only the Tomlin lead Steelers have ever “accomplished” this kind of mind numbing incompetence at the QB position.

 

[Goalie_Bob]

Technically, Skyler Thompson was on the team last year. So if he ends up on the team this coming year it won't be the entire QB room. Yes, I know a technicality.

On a Micro level, this is a nothing burger of a stat. Who cares who the backups and 3rd strings are..... Many teams have changed their starter, which is way more important for multiple years in a row. The Colts did it for 6 straight years from 2018 thru 2023. I'm sure the Browns did it for years on end at times as well.

On a Macro level, it just goes to show how badly they botched the transition from Ben to the next QB. And I think it also highlights how hard it is to find that next guy. But I do have faith, maybe it is misguided that they finally have a plan in place to take a real shot in 2026. Everything is pointing in that direction.

 

[cookthebooks]

seems like very little practical difference between mediocre and bad quarterbacks in the nfl

 

[MrBrightside]

Technically, Skyler Thompson was on the team last year. So if he ends up on the team this coming year it won't be the entire QB room. Yes, I know a technicality.

On a Micro level, this is a nothing burger of a stat. Who cares who the backups and 3rd strings are..... Many teams have changed their starter, which is way more important for multiple years in a row. The Colts did it for 6 straight years from 2018 thru 2023. I'm sure the Browns did it for years on end at times as well.

On a Macro level, it just goes to show how badly they botched the transition from Ben to the next QB. And I think it also highlights how hard it is to find that next guy. But I do have faith, maybe it is misguided that they finally have a plan in place to take a real shot in 2026. Everything is pointing in that direction.

No, he was signed in January to a futures contract. He was on the Dolphins last year.

 

[Goalie_Bob]

No, he was signed in January to a futures contract. He was on the Dolphins last year.

Technically, him being on the roster in January means he was on the team during the 2024 year. The new league year does not start til Mid March.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Having faith they are planning ahead to get a potential franchise QB in 2026 and having faith Tomlin identifies AND develops him are entirely different things.

I get seeing the writing on the wall for next year’s draft, but literally nothing Tomlin has done in his career suggests he can identify and develop a franchise QB.

Every fact strongly points to the fact he will f*** it up as he done with his OC hires and offense “philosophy”.

Technically, him being on the roster in January means he was on the team during the 2024 year. The new league year does not start til Mid March.

He was never on the active roster.

 

[Pens1566]

If we're just gonna hand the ball off all the time, QB doesn't really matter ...

 

[bigdaddyk88]

There is no amount of denial that can excuse away this kind of incompetence from Tomlin.

No matter what BS you want to throw out there, it won’t put lipstick on this this kind of pig.

They are THE ONLY team to have pulled off this feat in 55 years.

55… years… come out of your deep denial and try to at least ponder the significance of what has happened here.

But this, but that, but only the Tomlin lead Steelers have ever “accomplished” this kind of mind numbing incompetence at the QB position.

Sure the league barely has 20 starting level qbs but lets just complain to complain. It’s crazy how a team with this much qb turnover is still able to make the playoffs maybe the coach is better than you think

 

[Jaded-Fan]

If we're just gonna hand the ball off all the time, QB doesn't really matter ...

Don't exaggerate.

They throw lateral passes now and then too.

 

[Pens1566]

Don't exaggerate.

They throw lateral passes now and then too.

I consider those just really wide pitches.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Sure the league barely has 20 starting level qbs but lets just complain to complain. It’s crazy how a team with this much qb turnover is still able to make the playoffs maybe the coach is better than you think

The guy who hasn’t won a playoff game in 8 years (franchise mark for futility), gets blown out in every playoff game, has developed exactly one impact player the last 8 years, and just blew through 5 QBs in a calendar year is better than I think?

The guy who created this problem and never had a succession plan at QB and is now desperate for a half crazed AR to “save” his season… is a better coach than I think?

Nope - he’s exactly who I think he is - a cancer on this org that has taken a great legacy and burned it to the ground because AR2 is a coward.

 

[MrBrightside]

Any chance the two of you can take the "Tomlin is the root of all evil" versus "Tomlin can do no wrong ever" ticklefight to private messaging or something?

 

[pistolpete11]

Because there is no guarantee that the pains are growing pains instead of just pain. There's no guarantee that in two years' time we're not talking about the third attempt to rebuild the OL because half or more of those guys busted.

This is Khan's first attempt and the previous attempt failed because they didn't make it a priority in the draft. Khan has. Time to see how it pans out. If they need to supplement through FA, fine, but let's see where they need to supplement before they spend a bunch of money on someone they might not even need.

We're apparently not going to agree on this.

And we'll never know the true answer of whether it was drafting or development with those guys, but it was absolutely the worst possible environment for them and Harris has just said so. As such, I am assuming it played a part. Even if those guys weren't the greatest picks possible, they still had a chance of being so much more than they were. Even if it didn't, it was still the wrong move. Just like not reinforcing the OL with veterans is. If they get lucky, lucky them. Likelihood is they won't.

When I say they aren't good picks prior to them getting picked, after them getting picked, and they prove to not be good picks, I'm not going to buy "well they could have been better with more development".

Najee is/was fine, but he's an unexceptional RB. You don't take those in the 1st round and particularly not when your line is in shambles. They should have started rebuilding the line then and maybe we'd be in a better spot.

Because a non-working move is a non-working move - or a mistake - and I don't agree with your stance of 'oh well, didn't really matter' in the long run. It's an area where the Khan era has a bad mark for me so I'm going to explain why you since you said it was 'fine to good' (iirc).

So it's fine when other teams have mountains of dead cap, but it's not fine when Khan might have overpaid a couple of guys?

And because the one thing that is a huge mistake in the NFL, imo, is not acquiring great players. You can bullshit your way around the money and the contracts. You can find ways to make up for wasted draft picks. But either you find talent or you're a non-goer. The Steelers have been really bad at getting talent out of second contracts for a bit and that is a big part of why they are where they are.

Not getting talent out of second contracts goes hand-in-hand with not drafting well, which is on the previous regime. At worst, you can say it's a TBD for Khan.

Those aren't sweetheart deals, they're the Eagles having a ton of back-loaded contracts. Lot of ghost years. I'm not jumping up and down demanding this team follow that route when they're not contenders but at the same time, we have just seen doing so probably isn't going to hurt them when they are and maybe it'll accelerate the process.

And Baun was a FA too fwiw. Personally I'd suggest that list supports what I said - drafting is more important, but FA/trade is important enough that we can't just say if the drafting is good, then all is good. Cos that team ain't winning shit without Brown and Barkley, and in all likelihood they aren't giving that money to Hurts as he was on the path to not being it before they got Brown in.

They literally just traded for DK which is awfully similar to the Eagles trading for Brown and Saquon was the last piece they added. The Steelers aren't at "just one last piece" stage yet. I mean, would I say 'no' to signing Saquon? Probably not, because he's a generational talent, one of the easiest guys to root for, and being a Penn State alum myself.

But I'm not going to get bent of shape because they haven't checked every box prior to 2025. They've got at least 2 more drafts and another FA before I think we should be worried about having everything in place.

 

[Snooki Stackhouse]

The good news is I think the Tomlin saga is coming to a head. He'll have until after the 26-27 season to get a guy and develop him into something. Either he fails and they pull some "mutual agreement to part ways" or he succeeds and we get out of QB purgatory. I just don't think he's got more time than that. Two years from now essentially.

 

[pistolpete11]

The good news is I think the Tomlin saga is coming to a head. He'll have until after the 26-27 season to get a guy and develop him into something. Either he fails and they pull some "mutual agreement to part ways" or he succeeds and we get out of QB purgatory. I just don't think he's got more time than that. Two years from now essentially.

I think he gets at least 27-28, too. If things go poorly in 26-27, they will play the "rookie QB" card for him.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

The good news is I think the Tomlin saga is coming to a head. He'll have until after the 26-27 season to get a guy and develop him into something. Either he fails and they pull some "mutual agreement to part ways" or he succeeds and we get out of QB purgatory. I just don't think he's got more time than that. Two years from now essentially.

Not sure Art is going to be ready for the divorce yet. It’s definitely something that they should consider

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

Brees had just another level of accuracy and is probably the most accurate passer of all time.

HAHAHAHAA This is pure gold.

Dude played his career in a dome and in warm weather SD.

Say what you will about Rodgers, but he played in Green Bay and was absolutely money against the SB Steelers in 2010