OT: The Pittsburgher Thread: Off Season We dont need a QB Edition

[bambamcam4ever]

Don't let that cloud people who think he was the second coming.

Don't get me wrong. He was a top quarterback. But he was never considered on the level of Brady and Manning and there are obvious reasons why.

There's people on this board who were arguing he was better than Drew Brees. Not much you can do with people that detached from reality.

 

[JTG]

I will always believe the game of football is fundamentally around two principles - possession of the ball, and getting to the QB. If you can do those two things as a team, more often than not you're doing alright. I think until this team has a legit run game, let Mason get railroaded. The line will come along, but if they can't find a work horse back that brings a dynamic element to this offense, I think it's all dead in the water.

Because we lacked a RB, that is why I thought Fields was worth the money just because of his escapability alone.

 

[MrBrightside]

We've been through this 100x on here. Playoff Ben was, by and large, pretty meh. People take that as giving Tomlin a pass or something, so people get really angry about it, but most of Ben's playoff resume was not elite and often not even average. That is not a defense of Tomlin and the playoff failures in any measure, but this really isn't controversial if you look at the numbers.

 

[ChaosAgent]

Yup. I think he gets a lot of grace because the draft hauls have looked amazing the very next day. But free agency, trades, handing out money? It's a different story, that one fleecing aside.

I guess they look amazing, but both of his 1st tackles were injured or bad in 2024. So that should knock some shine off. He also hasn't added an impact pass rusher yet (Nick Herbig seems promising)

 

[Peat]

I guess they look amazing, but both of his 1st tackles were injured or bad in 2024. So that should knock some shine off. He also hasn't added an impact pass rusher yet (Nick Herbig seems promising)

I think at the end of next season we'll have enough data on the drafts of the Khan era that it becomes more about the actuality than the potential. Right now, freak injuries are freak injuries (or possibly testament to why you shouldn't have the worst rated S&C coach in the NFL) and young guys could go anywhere. I think once you've got a class completing year 3 and it being clearer who they are, and we hopefully see more of the injury hit 2024 class, public opinion will change for better or worse.

And that shouldn't necessarily affect how we view the Steelers' team building. The question of drafting vs development will come up, particularly if Jones busts. But that's a different question for a different day.

Not sure o would say Minka is a failure. If you believe he was put where he was to limit big plays because the Cbs were bad outside of Jpj. Jackson back got hurt and couldn’t play m2m. He got Elliot on a great contract. Queen was the same player he was in bmore. Bmore just took the green dot from him and said go hunt. Larry being suspended for ped is probably telling. He was never a pass rusher but supposed to be a run stuffer. The Heyward extension is a year by year deal they can get out of it with no real dead money. The dk extension was good and i would love to give gp the exact extension. We will see with better Db play can Minka play rover more often

If you're using one of the league's most expensive safeties to act as a half-arsed security blanket for bad secondary play with mixed results, there's been a failure in team building.

 

[lastcupever75]

Don't let that cloud people who think he was the second coming.

Don't get me wrong. He was a top quarterback. But he was never considered on the level of Brady and Manning and there are obvious reasons why.

Take a look at who the colts surrounded Payton with and who the Steelers surrounded Ben with on offense.
One qb wanted, as his owner said, star war numbers. And his coach didn’t mind because dungy said he always thought he could take late rd picks and coach them up. The opposite of what tomlin does.

This Steeler team had a defense in 08 that was the best the league had seen in 25 years. And with their first rd pick on the spring drafted a DT. After their center almost blew the Super Bowl

 

[ChaosAgent]

Take a look at who the colts surrounded Payton with and who the Steelers surrounded Ben with on offense.
One qb wanted, as his owner said, star war numbers. And his coach didn’t mind because dungy said he always thought he could take late rd picks and coach them up. The opposite of what tomlin does.

This Steeler team had a defense in 08 that was the best the league had seen in 25 years. And with their first rd pick on the spring drafted a DT. After their center almost blew the Super Bowl

Yeah look at the playoff performances in 2012, 2013 and 2015. He had plenty stacked offenses. Love the player, despise the person but there's levels to this game and he is not in the level you think he is.

 

[lastcupever75]

RW was audible the entire season. It’s crazy how the same hit piece came out in Seattle and Denver. RW was so upset about not being able to change the play he wants to come back. KP and Mason were literally changing plays when they were here. The more rw was changing the play the worse he was the all 22 on him this year is rough. He could not get to his 2nd read he would be confused post snap and try to escape the pocket like he was 26 and play back yard football. He was incapable of stepping up in the pocket or using mof.

Question. If those things were being said about Russ both in Seattle and Denver.

Why did Tomlin and company express immediate interest in him once the news of his upcoming release ?
Had his team leaders literally recruit him to come play in Pittsburgh ?
So much so they didn’t care how it looked to the qb they drafted in the 1st round the year prior. Immediately gave him “ pole position” to start camp.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Ben also had a HOF defense his younger years that could cover him. It’s similar to RW in Seattle

Who was bailing out the D in SB 43 again?

Oh that was Roth?

How many of Tomlin’s OCs ever found work again in the NFL?

It’s fascinated no NFL teams wanted these offensive savants to run their offenses.

 

[lastcupever75]

Some of those points the defense wasn’t even on the field for. That bortles team was top 5 in offense and had a lead in the afc championship game against New England in the 4th

That bortles team scored 10 points the week before in a home wildcard game.
His stat line was 12-23 for a whopping 87 yards passing.

he did had 80 yards rushing though. Where he seemed to kill us the following game as well.
I thought tomlin was a big film guy?? They look Unprepared for it as usual

 

[lastcupever75]

There's people on this board who were arguing he was better than Drew Brees. Not much you can do with people that detached from reality.

AFC north football. Playoff game in January against the ravens.

Who are you taking ?

Brees played at least 9 games in a dome per year

 

[lastcupever75]

Yeah look at the playoff performances in 2012, 2013 and 2015. He had plenty stacked offenses. Love the player, despise the person but there's levels to this game and he is not in the level you think he is.

Stack ike redman, “one trick pony” Wallace and AB
And, like I asked, compare that Faulk, edge, addai and where the colts acquired them to where the Steelers acquired those 3.
First rounders on 2-3 WRs. Another as a move TE

this teams philosophy for like forever has been to build the team through defense. And make chicken salad out of the chicken shit ingredients they have to the offensive side of the ball.

Honest question, maybe there’s similar out there I don’t know about.
Name me another qb whose team let his three #1 receiver go after their rookie contract ?
Plax, tone, Wallace

 

[Ryder71]

We've been through this 100x on here. Playoff Ben was, by and large, pretty meh. People take that as giving Tomlin a pass or something, so people get really angry about it, but most of Ben's playoff resume was not elite and often not even average. That is not a defense of Tomlin and the playoff failures in any measure, but this really isn't controversial if you look at the numbers.

Tomlin is awful, period.

 

[Pens x]

Khan is awful

 

[Ryder71]

Khan is awful

I like his draft picks, I like the Metcalf trade, Claypool, The Elliott signing. Nah, he gets good value with his moves.

 

[Empoleon8771]

The Titans had basically their entire staff at Ward’s pro day today. Makes it really seem like they’re not trading down and taking Ward.

I don’t think Sanders should be taken high in the draft, but I’d be a bit surprised if he makes it beyond the Giants at #3. I’m not sure I can see both the Giants and Browns passing on him. I actually wonder if one of those teams trade down to get Sanders closer to #10 while also getting more picks.

 

[bambamcam4ever]

Take a look at who the colts surrounded Payton with and who the Steelers surrounded Ben with on offense.
One qb wanted, as his owner said, star war numbers. And his coach didn’t mind because dungy said he always thought he could take late rd picks and coach them up. The opposite of what tomlin does.

This Steeler team had a defense in 08 that was the best the league had seen in 25 years. And with their first rd pick on the spring drafted a DT. After their center almost blew the Super Bowl

Roethlisberger played with a WR whose prime is top 5 all time. The Steelers offense was very aggressive during that time. They would go for 2 just because.

 

[Peat]

The Titans had basically their entire staff at Ward’s pro day today. Makes it really seem like they’re not trading down and taking Ward.

I don’t think Sanders should be taken high in the draft, but I’d be a bit surprised if he makes it beyond the Giants at #3. I’m not sure I can see both the Giants and Browns passing on him. I actually wonder if one of those teams trade down to get Sanders closer to #10 while also getting more picks.

Would pretty much have to be the Giants. The Giants are about as obviously QB thirsty as can be so if the Browns want Sanders, they can't trade down as otherwise the Giants get him.

Giants could trade down but would probably want to watch the Raiders and Saints closely. Doesn't feel like either would due to either getting a guy or just being so far in cap hell why do it, but it wouldn't be a major surprise if they did it. I doubt they'd trade up so in their shoes I'd be comfy going to 5, but not beyond.

 

[Coastal Kev]

Khan is awful

He's trending that way. A money guy hired to be a player personnel guy.......what a disaster. The Steelers might be in worse shape than the Pirates because their actually trying to be competitive.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Would pretty much have to be the Giants. The Giants are about as obviously QB thirsty as can be so if the Browns want Sanders, they can't trade down as otherwise the Giants get him.

Giants could trade down but would probably want to watch the Raiders and Saints closely. Doesn't feel like either would due to either getting a guy or just being so far in cap hell why do it, but it wouldn't be a major surprise if they did it. I doubt they'd trade up so in their shoes I'd be comfy going to 5, but not beyond.

I’m interested in seeing what the Browns will do, I think most mock drafts have been mocking Carter to them but that may have been with assuming that Garrett will be traded. Cleveland does run a 4-3 though, so they could pair Garrett and Carter at DE and have a downright monstrous pass rushing duo. I just wonder if their need for a QB will push them to take Sanders there instead.

I think either the Browns or Giants trading down would be more about another team wanting to jump up to get Carter or Hunter, though. I could definitely see a team wanting to pay a lot to jump NE in the draft, since they seem almost a lock to take Hunter at #4. Not only is the WR fit there obvious, but they could also have a pretty great CB duo with Gonzales and Hunter.

 

[Peat]

I’m interested in seeing what the Browns will do, I think most mock drafts have been mocking Carter to them but that may have been with assuming that Garrett will be traded. Cleveland does run a 4-3 though, so they could pair Garrett and Carter at DE and have a downright monstrous pass rushing duo. I just wonder if their need for a QB will push them to take Sanders there instead.

I think either the Browns or Giants trading down would be more about another team wanting to jump up to get Carter or Hunter, though. I could definitely see a team wanting to pay a lot to jump NE in the draft, since they seem almost a lock to take Hunter at #4. Not only is the WR fit there obvious, but they could also have a pretty great CB duo with Gonzales and Hunter.

I had a peek at the Browns reddit to try and get a feel for what they're hearing/feeling about it. A point one person made that had me thinking is that the best spells Stefanski has had as a playcaller are Cousins in Minnesota and Flacco. Accurate veteran guys without great legs. If you buy into Sanders being good, then he's that guy only younger. Do you think Stefanski could convince himself and others that he can turn Sanders into the tough guy's version of Cousins and get some shit done? I've heard of worse arguments. Particularly if the alternative is to waste a season like it's rarely been wasted before then hope the 2026 draft will be kinder and they will be well placed, both of which are very probable but not definite, and push the timeline back a year in any case...

I can see it.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

Question. If those things were being said about Russ both in Seattle and Denver.

Why did Tomlin and company express immediate interest in him once the news of his upcoming release ?
Had his team leaders literally recruit him to come play in Pittsburgh ?
So much so they didn’t care how it looked to the qb they drafted in the 1st round the year prior. Immediately gave him “ pole position” to start camp.

Because RW is a hof with 2 sb appearances and was available for free. Kp lost his job to Mason and knew that they would bring in competition for him

 

[bigdaddyk88]

Would pretty much have to be the Giants. The Giants are about as obviously QB thirsty as can be so if the Browns want Sanders, they can't trade down as otherwise the Giants get him.

Giants could trade down but would probably want to watch the Raiders and Saints closely. Doesn't feel like either would due to either getting a guy or just being so far in cap hell why do it, but it wouldn't be a major surprise if they did it. I doubt they'd trade up so in their shoes I'd be comfy going to 5, but not beyond.

The Giants are more likely to draft Dart he played in a similar offense that the Giants run.
Sanders is somehere between Tua and Minishew he will get a coach fired

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

There's people on this board who were arguing he was better than Drew Brees. Not much you can do with people that detached from reality.

I argued they are in the same tier. Each had his strengths, it’s really pretty plain to consider them relatively equal.

 

[bambamcam4ever]

I argued they are in the same tier. Each had his strengths, it’s really pretty plain to consider them relatively equal.

Brees had just another level of accuracy and is probably the most accurate passer of all time.

But if watching him play isn't enough to convince you, or the 6+ times he led the lead in yards or completion percentage, the Saints for most of his career until the last 4 seasons were not overloaded with talent. They were fairly average apart from QB. Yet with Brees as the QB they finished top 6 in either offensive yards or points in each of his 15 seasons there. Roethlisberger probably had better offensive talent around him on average yet the Steelers only finished that high 4 times total, when AB was at his peak.