OT: The Pittsburgher Thread: No 3peat for the Swifts

[Buddy Bizarre]

Sure they can. Where exactly is the big money going on offense right now? Until they have to pay a QB or their linemen are up for an extension, the spending is always going to be a little lopsided.

And Bishop was fine for a UDFA but he’s not a starter.

Perhaps because they don't sign big guys on offense is why the offense struggles? I know it's not a true correlation, but the balance is so skewed and it has been for about 5 years. You'd think someone would say "hey maybe investing in all this $$ on defense hasn't panned out for us, maybe we should take a different approach?"

But no, we'll pick a DL with the 1st pick because Tomlin needs 11 All Pros on defense or else he just can't compete.

And I disagree with you on Bishop and Trice. They were adequate starting slot CB's. No reason one or both can't continue to grow into that role. But I keep forgetting that Tomlin hasn't grown a DB in the past 10 years.

 

[Peat]

We'll see if anything leaks different but my guess is that Tomlin's internal messaging to Fields was consistently "Wilson is the starter and you're going to have to be gangbusters good to change that" and Fields has no reason to feel misled. If anything, seeing how stubbornly loyal Tomlin is to his perceived starter is probably attractive if Fields can get a guarantee he is that guy.

Sure they can. Where exactly is the big money going on offense right now? Until they have to pay a QB or their linemen are up for an extension, the spending is always going to be a little lopsided.

And Bishop was fine for a UDFA but he’s not a starter.

Yes and no. They can throw cash at solving some of their problems in FA and change the balance some. Get a big name Guard to cement the line. Spend big at WR.

That said, I wasn't super impressed by Bishop either, and think getting a really dangerous and reliable nickel CB is a good way to improve the team. They can't really spend that entire 56m they have on the offence and if they do, the draft is pretty much going to be pure defence.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I think the Fields situation right now is pretty clear: the Steelers aren't quite offering the money he wants, so he'll test UFA to either get a better deal somewhere else or get the Steelers to raise their deal.

How Khan has operated as GM makes me really think that he's focused on winning every trade and negotiation, so he's probably fine with waiting it out until Fields comes down to the price that he wants. Issue is that it may bite him just like the Aiyuk situation last year bit him.

 

[xlm34]

Perhaps because they don't sign big guys on offense is why the offense struggles? I know it's not a true correlation, but the balance is so skewed and it has been for about 5 years. You'd think someone would say "hey maybe investing in all this $$ on defense hasn't panned out for us, maybe we should take a different approach?"

But no, we'll pick a DL with the 1st pick because Tomlin needs 11 All Pros on defense or else he just can't compete.

And I disagree with you on Bishop and Trice. They were adequate starting slot CB's. No reason one or both can't continue to grow into that role. But I keep forgetting that Tomlin hasn't grown a DB in the past 10 years.

Over the last 5 years, 11 of their 15 picks in the first three rounds have been on offense. That’s why the offense is cheap and the defense is expensive.

And impact players on offense that aren’t running backs generally don’t hit free agency. The only area you can really point to going into last year that was a huge miss was WR. And it wasn’t because the defense was taking all the money. It was because Khan struck out.

We'll see if anything leaks different but my guess is that Tomlin's internal messaging to Fields was consistently "Wilson is the starter and you're going to have to be gangbusters good to change that" and Fields has no reason to feel misled. If anything, seeing how stubbornly loyal Tomlin is to his perceived starter is probably attractive if Fields can get a guarantee he is that guy.



Yes and no. They can throw cash at solving some of their problems in FA and change the balance some. Get a big name Guard to cement the line. Spend big at WR.

That said, I wasn't super impressed by Bishop either, and think getting a really dangerous and reliable nickel CB is a good way to improve the team. They can't really spend that entire 56m they have on the offence and if they do, the draft is pretty much going to be pure defence.

And that’s kind of what it boils down to for me. They can do both — yeah the defense may get more expensive but it’s not going to be at the expense of the offense. Even with a big FA signing or two on offense, there’s still gonna be a skew that people are going to complain about.

 

[Peat]

And that’s kind of what it boils down to for me. They can do both — yeah the defense may get more expensive but it’s not going to be at the expense of the offense. Even with a big FA signing or two on offense, there’s still gonna be a skew that people are going to complain about.

Yup.

And hell, teams going through periods of being expensive on one side of the ball then changing is just normal. The problem isn't that the Steelers are heavy on defensive spending, it's that the draft picks on offence haven't panned out. I think some of that is down to not having enough support, not having spent enough in FA to make it work, but it's mostly on some mix of drafting & development.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

Over the last 5 years, 11 of their 15 picks in the first three rounds have been on offense. That’s why the offense is cheap and the defense is expensive.

And impact players on offense that aren’t running backs generally don’t hit free agency. The only area you can really point to going into last year that was a huge miss was WR. And it wasn’t because the defense was taking all the money. It was because Khan struck out.

If my memory serves right we discussed this a ton last offseason: the root cause of why there are no big contracts on offense: 1) because the Steelers don't chase big $$ there in FA AND 2) because they can't develop anyone on offense deserving of a C2 contract. I mean you touched on it in your post: over 5 years they've picked a lot of offensive guys with zippo to show for it. That's a brutal stat.

Name the last big FA expense on offense? Semu? Trubiski? RW and JF were dirt cheap so they don't fit into this category.

But this team will spend on Larry Og, Pat Queen, Elliot, etc all the live long day.

There's a pattern here that defense is the priority. I mean that's 1 approach, but when that same approach doesn't work year after year after year you question a lot of shit. And you know who is driving the bus with these defensive acquisitions (FA and Draft).

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

No, not a SB winning QB but while money on this contract obviously matters, it's also about setting himself up for a future contract. I think there's a pretty reasonable argument that the Steelers give him a better chance at that than the Jets and Giants, regardless of how he feels about Tomlin.

In terms of winning and being mediocre, and not a bottom dweller, Steelers are probably his best bet.

In terms of putting up big numbers that will get him another big contract, Tomlin and his offense is about the worst possible situation.

Not sure I would trust my future earnings on a guy that pulled the rug on me and runs an offense that would stifle my numbers.

I guess we will have our answer soon.

 

[xlm34]

If my memory serves right we discussed this a ton last offseason: the root cause of why there are no big contracts on offense: 1) because the Steelers don't chase big $$ there in FA AND 2) because they can't develop anyone on offense deserving of a C2 contract. I mean you touched on it in your post: over 5 years they've picked a lot of offensive guys with zippo to show for it. That's a brutal stat.

Name the last big FA expense on offense? Semu? Trubiski? RW and JF were dirt cheap so they don't fit into this category.

But this team will spend on Larry Og, Pat Queen, Elliot, etc all the live long day.

There's a pattern here that defense is the priority. I mean that's 1 approach, but when that same approach doesn't work year after year after year you question a lot of shit. And you know who is driving the bus with these defensive acquisitions (FA and Draft).

If you consider Deshon Elliot’s 2 year 6 million dollar contract a big free agent signing, then they’ve made a fair number of big signings on offense.

Where exactly should they have made a big signing in free agency last year for example? And who should it have been? WR I totally agree with but again — that’s on Khan trying to land a big fish and coming up empty.



They almost traded for him last year so I’d imagine there’s a good chance he’s a Steeler.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Yeah I think their WR2 next year is going to be either Kirk or Slayton. I think Kirk is a bit better but I think both are good options.

I'm interested in seeing how free agency will impact their draft strategy. It sounds like they'll be filling the WR2 and CB2 positions in free agency, or that's at least their plan as of now. I wonder what positions that would leave for them to draft in the draft this year, notable in the early rounds. My bet right now would be DL in round 1 and RB in round 2, but I'm not sure what they'd take in round 3. Do they just go BPA for either WR or CB in the 3rd round? I don't think they'd sign a CB2 and WR2 while also using a 1st or 2nd on a WR or CB.

 

[xlm34]

I don’t put much stock into what Dulac says, but if these are the contracts the QBs are looking at why is there any debate from the organization?

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

If the Steelers sign every player that fans have heard of who gets cut, will that be a good thing?

 

[Empoleon8771]

I don't think there's any chance that Wilson gets 2 years and $50 million. Who's paying Wilson $25 million a year? I can't see any sort of market for him at that price.

I think both Fields and Wilson will come in at around 2 years and $30-$35 million. The cost of the two won't be that different IMO.

 

[Peat]

Yeah I think their WR2 next year is going to be either Kirk or Slayton. I think Kirk is a bit better but I think both are good options.

I'm interested in seeing how free agency will impact their draft strategy. It sounds like they'll be filling the WR2 and CB2 positions in free agency, or that's at least their plan as of now. I wonder what positions that would leave for them to draft in the draft this year, notable in the early rounds. My bet right now would be DL in round 1 and RB in round 2, but I'm not sure what they'd take in round 3. Do they just go BPA for either WR or CB in the 3rd round? I don't think they'd sign a CB2 and WR2 while also using a 1st or 2nd on a WR or CB.

Few other possibilities. Grab a OT to be back up and potential Jones insurance. Grab a safety/big nickel guy. Double dip at DL. Hit up TE. Heck, draft a QB.

Honestly, assuming DL in the 1st round and RB in the 2nd, the only positions I'd believe to be completely off the board in the 3rd round to be OLB, C, and RB. There's been a few rumblings about them looking at Guards so that seems plausible, they could use a big hitting physical ILB if that's what's there... I'm sure the list will narrow after FA, but they can use players just about everywhere.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Few other possibilities. Grab a OT to be back up and potential Jones insurance. Grab a safety/big nickel guy. Double dip at DL. Hit up TE. Heck, draft a QB.

Honestly, assuming DL in the 1st round and RB in the 2nd, the only positions I'd believe to be completely off the board in the 3rd round to be OLB, C, and RB. There's been a few rumblings about them looking at Guards so that seems plausible, they could use a big hitting physical ILB if that's what's there... I'm sure the list will narrow after FA, but they can use players just about everywhere.

Yeah safety was the other position I was thinking of, I don't think Elliott is under contract for much longer and Minkah has declined a bit. I don't think it would be a bad idea to dip into that market and try to get a future starting FS or SS with that 3rd.

 

[WickedWrister]

If the Steelers sign every player that fans have heard of who gets cut, will that be a good thing?

Yeah I'll take one of Kirk, Lockett, Slayton, Godwin, Cooper or Adams please.

Wouldn't say no to Nuk or Keenan Allen as a stopgap either.

 

[pistolpete11]

In terms of winning and being mediocre, and not a bottom dweller, Steelers are probably his best bet.

In terms of putting up big numbers that will get him another big contract, Tomlin and his offense is about the worst possible situation.

Not sure I would trust my future earnings on a guy that pulled the rug on me and runs an offense that would stifle my numbers.

I guess we will have our answer soon.

If he thinks he can put up "big numbers" with the Jets or Giants, good luck to him. I think it's more likely he looks like a train wreck like he was in Chicago.

 

[WickedWrister]

Aaaaand here’s the big fish on the market

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

Yeah I'll take one of Kirk, Lockett, Slayton, Godwin, Cooper or Adams please.

Wouldn't say no to Nuk or Keenan Allen as a stopgap either.

I mean, not all of those guys were cut.

 

[Peat]

Yeah safety was the other position I was thinking of, I don't think Elliott is under contract for much longer and Minkah has declined a bit. I don't think it would be a bad idea to dip into that market and try to get a future starting FS or SS with that 3rd.

Bonus points for the right guy potentially being a salve to slot CB too. Tbh, I kinda wish they'd look to get a DeJean/Branch type player this year. Problem is they tend to be rich at 21 but don't last to the 50s, but the Steelers could really use a guy like that and I think there's a few in this draft.

 

[xlm34]

Aaaaand here’s the big fish on the market

The last I saw the asking price for a Packers trade was a first plus one of their young WRs. So for us it would be 21 + Roman Wilson/Calvin Austin? Dunno.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Call me stupid if you want, but I'd rather sign Kirk for no assets than trade assets for Metcalf tbh

 

[xlm34]

Call me stupid if you want, but I'd rather sign Kirk for no assets than trade assets for Metcalf tbh

Nah I don’t think that’s stupid at all. I think some team throws a dummy offer to the Seahawks for him.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

If he thinks he can put up "big numbers" with the Jets or Giants, good luck to him. I think it's more likely he looks like a train wreck like he was in Chicago.

If he 100% wanted to be a Steeler, I’m pretty sure he would have signed already.

There is also no guarantee he isn’t a train wreck under Tomlin and their anemic offense.

I can’t argue with you about the Jets, because they are the Jets and cursed.

But throwing to an emerging superstar like Nabers has to be way more appealing than the Steelers collection of whatevers and a head case who can’t run routes well.

I doubt any QB in the league would want Pickens over Nabers.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

If you consider Deshon Elliot’s 2 year 6 million dollar contract a big free agent signing, then they’ve made a fair number of big signings on offense.

Where exactly should they have made a big signing in free agency last year for example? And who should it have been? WR I totally agree with but again — that’s on Khan trying to land a big fish and coming up empty.

This isn't just about last year. They haven't landed a big contract on offense in AGES. I seriously cannot remember 1 guy on offense they brought in.

I provided examples on defense over the years, but there are no examples on the other side of the ball. I stand by that there is an obvious pattern, but some people refuse to believe it.

 

[JTG]

Why would any offensive player want to be here after seeing what they have seen? This is going to have to be built through the draft for now or we need to catch fire with a retread.