OT: The Pittsburgher Thread: No 3peat for the Swifts

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Why did Tomlin not allow Ben to audible?



Yup- the media laps up his quotes. They can't get enough.

He's well versed in the ways of bullshit. That is a skill and it's gotten tons of people jobs they aren't qualified for.
Ben did audible they literally did an entire thing about Dilly and he himself was questioning RW audible choices this season. When you have a bunch of young players some coaches don’t like to audible often.
 
Ben did audible they literally did an entire thing about Dilly and he himself was questioning RW audible choices this season. When you have a bunch of young players some coaches don’t like to audible often.


What year was this? I see Lev Bell in the backfield.
Tomlin didn't allow Ben to audible for the last few years of his career. RW wasn't allowed to audible for a period of time.
That is absolutely bonkers.
 
What year was this? I see Lev Bell in the backfield.
Tomlin didn't allow Ben to audible for the last few years of his career. RW wasn't allowed to audible for a period of time.
That is absolutely bonkers.
What year was this? I see Lev Bell in the backfield.
Tomlin didn't allow Ben to audible for the last few years of his career. RW wasn't allowed to audible for a period of time.
That is absolutely bonkers.
2018.
RW was limited by Smith at the end because it wasn’t working not that he wasn’t allowed. RW was getting confused with pre snap reads and kept trying to audbile to a perfect play instead of running the play as called. Some times the wr or the line didn’t hear the change. Some times he did after Fraizer finished the blocking assignments. Some oc want people in their system for a year before they give guys free reign. Peyton is like this it’s why he and rw butted heads
 
Art 2 really is one of the worst owners in the NFL. It sounds like hyperbole, but Tomlin is an issue, but I also think a part of this is that Tomlin is fine with the dysfunction and works within it. He doesn't get frustrated. They keep paying him. The veil never comes off.

The Rooney family only being involved in this may be too incestual at this point and they need to really step away and get a COO. I have hope for Little Dan, but he has a road to hoe in front of him.
 
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While I agree with most of what he said and I myself have levied for it, like trading TJ and Minkah. There are a few things he got wrong or didn't even mention.

"The pitchforks are out for Mike Tomlin after the Steelers lost their 5th straight but the anger is misplaced. Sure, some of what Tomlin does drives me nuts but I actually think he’s outperformed what other coaches would have done with this roster over the past several years"

The anger is not misplaced. Tomlin has a huge huge hand in the roster. And the whole outperformed thing is a fallacy. I bet any number of other good coaches in the NFL could have done the same or better. The whole only Mike could do things with this roster is ridiculous. It's how it is justified every off season. So no, the anger is absolutely, positively not misplaced. It should have led to Tomlin's removal years ago.

If Howie Roseman is in charge then the first thing he would do is fire Mike Tomlin. That should have been #1 on his list. If he somehow convinced himself that Mike isn't the problem, which he is, then at least his power would be taken away and Austin would be fired as DC. So that would be #1 on his list.

Zack Frazier was their best lineman last season.

Broderick Jones has been miscast. He was drafted as a potential franchise LT and has basically not played there because they didn't want to hurt Dan Moore's feelings. The time he has played there he looked ok and I bet will be just as good as Cam Robinson. What they should do is spend some money on a decent guard, like Trey Smith or Will Fries. Howie just signed Dickerson to a 4 year, 84mil contract, so you can't say Howie wouldn't do it.

And he totally left out the DL. Philly's success is built on their DL, and OL which you did talk about, yet you completely left it out of your story. Which is also where the Steelers should spend their 1st round pick. They got run over in the games leading into the playoffs and the playoff game. They need to build the DL and you don't have them drafting a DL in one of the best DL drafts in memory? WHAAAAAAT?!!!

They need to be drafting two DL in the first 4 rounds.

Golden making it to the Steelers pick at 52 probably won't happen. But I understand the sentiment.

And the Steelers need a RB before the 7th round. While I am anti-taking a RB in the first round. Having a good player at the position can make a difference. I mean, Saquan's don't grow on trees. So taking one of the top guys in the 2nd-3rd would not be a wasted pick.



Bottom 5 in the league


Chiefs are 7th from the bottom after winning the prior two Super Bowls...... So you can't equate winning with liking the owner. Eagles are middle of the pack, though they are a "B".
 
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RBs I'd like to see here most -

1. Jeanty - I think he has potential to be a Saquon/LT style do it all back. He has some ball security concerns, but I think the good outweighs the bad. Curtis Martin figured it out. Not only can he be the focus in the offense, he's also a super good dude from what I have read and he speaks really well. He'd be a franchise face.

2. JD Giddens - He looks so much faster than what he's clocked at. When he runs I will be his 20 yard split is really good and his 20-40 is dogshit. He can be used in all facets of the offense. Hasn't missed time.

3. Raheim Sanders - I actually love this guy. I think he'd be super fun to watch here. Specimen of a player and plays in a Steeler manner. If he runs in the 4.4s with a good split at the combine, I'd very seriously look into drafting him.

4. Omarion Hampton - I like how he runs and he's fast. He will punish dudes and at 220 he can hold up. He's a lot like Najee but with a bit more pep. I don't see a step up from Najee here.

5. Quinshon Judkins - If he runs quick at the combine or his pro day, he's probably a guy I'd look at. He actually does look a little like LBell at MSU, but he's not as smart, so our zone blocking scheme would probably help him. I don't think his lack of acceleration will hurt him though. He knows how to use his line, and with how big and athletic our line is going to be, he could be a real treat to watch here.

6. Kaleb Johson - I'm kind of split on him. Sometimes I see a David Montgomery and sometimes I see Najee. He's not fast, he's not that explosive, but he has vision and patience, but if he doesn't have anything he runs into the back of his linemen.

7. Treyvon Henderson - I love how he runs. His skillset is actually my favorite in this class, I think. He could be the next game breaker in the NFL if he can stay healthy. He sort of reminds me of Willie Parker, and OSU fans can chime in - yardages: 1, -3, 2,-7, 45. He dances and gets caught up.

8. Cam Skattebo - Never bet against guys like him.

9. Dylan Simpson - He'd be a nice change to Warren. The juice we honestly have been missing for quite some time. Can always take it to the house. Small but can run through guys. Seems to be a really good route runner and has some savviness. I like him, but 190 pound RBs scare me anymore. He fumbles a shit load and he can't pass protect, so there is 0% chance we take him. Fun player though.

10. Devin Neal - I'm not a fan, but Tomlin is going to love him.
 
In true Steelers fashion - not bad enough to be the worst, but no where near the top.

TeamOverall GradeRank
Miami DolphinsA1
Minnesota VikingsA2
Las Vegas RaidersA3
San Francisco 49ersA4
Atlanta FalconsA5
Houston TexansB6
Green Bay PackersB7
Seattle SeahawksB8
Dallas CowboysB9
Los Angeles ChargersB10
Detroit LionsB11
New Orleans SaintsB12
Tennessee TitansB13
Indianapolis ColtsB14
Carolina PanthersB15
Baltimore RavensB16
Chicago BearsC17
Buffalo BillsC18
Jacksonville JaguarsC19
Denver BroncosC20
Los Angeles RamsC21
New York GiantsC22
Pittsburgh SteelersC23
Cleveland BrownsC24
Kansas City ChiefsC25
Philadelphia EaglesC26
Tampa Bay BuccaneersC27
Washington CommandersC28
New York JetsD29
New England PatriotsD30
Cincinnati BengalsD31
Arizona CardinalsF32
 
He didn’t impress me much, but as a depth RB he would be fine as a plodder type.
Rather not waste even a mid pick on a depth/plodder type. I'm with you in not being a Gordon fan.

Since it's the topic, I could be on board with Jeanty at their first pick if he's there, but in an ideal world (and you don't always get ideal world, I know), you'd get Henderson or the kid from Oregon... in round 2? Not sure where they're being mocked.
 
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In true Steelers fashion - not bad enough to be the worst, but no where near the top.

TeamOverall GradeRank
Miami DolphinsA1
Minnesota VikingsA2
Las Vegas RaidersA3
San Francisco 49ersA4
Atlanta FalconsA5
Houston TexansB6
Green Bay PackersB7
Seattle SeahawksB8
Dallas CowboysB9
Los Angeles ChargersB10
Detroit LionsB11
New Orleans SaintsB12
Tennessee TitansB13
Indianapolis ColtsB14
Carolina PanthersB15
Baltimore RavensB16
Chicago BearsC17
Buffalo BillsC18
Jacksonville JaguarsC19
Denver BroncosC20
Los Angeles RamsC21
New York GiantsC22
Pittsburgh SteelersC23
Cleveland BrownsC24
Kansas City ChiefsC25
Philadelphia EaglesC26
Tampa Bay BuccaneersC27
Washington CommandersC28
New York JetsD29
New England PatriotsD30
Cincinnati BengalsD31
Arizona CardinalsF32
Yet ranked above two teams that were in the super bowl
 
Rather not waste even a mid pick on a depth/plodder type. I'm with you in not being a Gordon fan.

Since it's the topic, I could be on board with Jeanty at their first pick if he's there, but in an ideal world (and you don't always get ideal world, I know), you'd get Henderson or the kid from Oregon... in round 2? Not sure where they're being mocked.
If Jeanty somehow falls to us, you’ve gotta take him. I think the odds of that are pretty low though. Given the depth of this RB class, I’d prefer taking one on Day 2. I honestly don’t have a preference at the moment as long as we get one of the top 8ish or so.
 
RBs I'd like to see here most -

1. Jeanty - I think he has potential to be a Saquon/LT style do it all back. He has some ball security concerns, but I think the good outweighs the bad. Curtis Martin figured it out. Not only can he be the focus in the offense, he's also a super good dude from what I have read and he speaks really well. He'd be a franchise face.

2. JD Giddens - He looks so much faster than what he's clocked at. When he runs I will be his 20 yard split is really good and his 20-40 is dogshit. He can be used in all facets of the offense. Hasn't missed time.

3. Raheim Sanders - I actually love this guy. I think he'd be super fun to watch here. Specimen of a player and plays in a Steeler manner. If he runs in the 4.4s with a good split at the combine, I'd very seriously look into drafting him.

4. Omarion Hampton - I like how he runs and he's fast. He will punish dudes and at 220 he can hold up. He's a lot like Najee but with a bit more pep. I don't see a step up from Najee here.

5. Quinshon Judkins - If he runs quick at the combine or his pro day, he's probably a guy I'd look at. He actually does look a little like LBell at MSU, but he's not as smart, so our zone blocking scheme would probably help him. I don't think his lack of acceleration will hurt him though. He knows how to use his line, and with how big and athletic our line is going to be, he could be a real treat to watch here.

6. Kaleb Johson - I'm kind of split on him. Sometimes I see a David Montgomery and sometimes I see Najee. He's not fast, he's not that explosive, but he has vision and patience, but if he doesn't have anything he runs into the back of his linemen.

7. Treyvon Henderson - I love how he runs. His skillset is actually my favorite in this class, I think. He could be the next game breaker in the NFL if he can stay healthy. He sort of reminds me of Willie Parker, and OSU fans can chime in - yardages: 1, -3, 2,-7, 45. He dances and gets caught up.

8. Cam Skattebo - Never bet against guys like him.

9. Dylan Simpson - He'd be a nice change to Warren. The juice we honestly have been missing for quite some time. Can always take it to the house. Small but can run through guys. Seems to be a really good route runner and has some savviness. I like him, but 190 pound RBs scare me anymore. He fumbles a shit load and he can't pass protect, so there is 0% chance we take him. Fun player though.

10. Devin Neal - I'm not a fan, but Tomlin is going to love him.

Kaleb Johnson feels like a very good possibility in the second if he’s there. From what I’ve read, he seems like a really good fit for Smith’s scheme.
 
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2018.
RW was limited by Smith at the end because it wasn’t working not that he wasn’t allowed. RW was getting confused with pre snap reads and kept trying to audbile to a perfect play instead of running the play as called. Some times the wr or the line didn’t hear the change. Some times he did after Fraizer finished the blocking assignments. Some oc want people in their system for a year before they give guys free reign. Peyton is like this it’s why he and rw butted heads

There is a pattern here that I'm not surprised you cannot see.

Across 2 different OCs:

- A HOF QB with 15 years of experience is not allowed to audible at the end of his career
- A likely HOF QB with 10+ years of experience is not allowed to audible at the end of the year

Only 1 constant at the helm calling the shots.

Handcuffing your QB handcuffs the offense and it's borne out by the results of terrible play down the stretch and struggling on offense. Art Smith is running the stuff Tomlin wants him to. Canada was the same thing and Fitchner before him.

You continue to scapegoat everyone but Tomlin.
 
Rather not waste even a mid pick on a depth/plodder type. I'm with you in not being a Gordon fan.

Since it's the topic, I could be on board with Jeanty at their first pick if he's there, but in an ideal world (and you don't always get ideal world, I know), you'd get Henderson or the kid from Oregon... in round 2? Not sure where they're being mocked.

Henderson may be there. I have a feeling he goes in the top half of the 2nd.

Jordan James definitely would be there, but drafting him in the 2nd would be a reach. He is rated in the 4th-UDFA range.

For Gordon, depends on what he runs at the combine. If he has a slow time, I'd move him to the UDFA section of my draft board.
 


This is their dude I think. He checks so many boxes. I'd love to land him and a guy like Tyleik Williams in the 2nd and roll with Harmon-Williams-Benton with Cam rotating. It'd be an incredible defense to watch.

Kaleb Johnson feels like a very good possibility in the second if he’s there. From what I’ve read, he seems like a really good fit for Smith’s scheme.
I think Judkins could be good here too. I really like Giddens. I think he has massive unrealized potential.
 
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Henderson may be there. I have a feeling he goes in the top half of the 2nd.

Jordan James definitely would be there, but drafting him in the 2nd would be a reach. He is rated in the 4th-UDFA range.

For Gordon, depends on what he runs at the combine. If he has a slow time, I'd move him to the UDFA section of my draft board.
Gordon was a dog (not in a good way) this past season. That team was a mess, but he was slow and gave up on runs - hard pass on him.
 
Apparently one of the beat reporters has said the feeling around the combine is that the Steelers will take Egbuka, similar to how the feeling had the Steelers taking Harris that year. Fwiw and all that.
 
I'm totally good with taking Egbuka, and based on the past results of their past highly drafted WRs, I think it's a reasonable assumption that he'll put up #2 WR numbers. All of Pickens (801 yards), Claypool (873 yards) and Juju (917 yards) all put up #2 WR numbers in their rookie years, and even Johnson put up 680 yards in his rookie year catching passes from Rudolph and Hodges. I think it's a pretty reasonable assumption that Egbuka could give the Steelers something in that range as the WR2.

That said, I'm still thinking about the idea of drafting Jeanty in the 1st round. The big selling point I see for it is that the FA WR group is substantially better than the FA RB group. PFF has only 2 RBs in their top-50 UFAs (Jones at 24 and Harris at 49), while they have 8 WRs in their top-50 UFAs (Higgins at 1, Godwin at 4, Cooper at 7, Diggs at 11, Hopkins at 34, Brown at 37, Slayton at 39 and Allen at 44). Are you better off with Jeanty in round 1 and signing one of Cooper or Diggs to be the WR2 or Egbuka in round 1 and either bringing Najee back or drafting a RB in round 2? Personally, I feel the first option yields a better team.

With how this team wants to play, I really think they need to prioritize getting as good of a RB as possible. While drafting a RB in round 1 with the state of this team is silly, I don't know that I'd say drafting a WR in round 1 makes more sense than drafting a RB in round 1.
 
There is a pattern here that I'm not surprised you cannot see.

Across 2 different OCs:

- A HOF QB with 15 years of experience is not allowed to audible at the end of his career
- A likely HOF QB with 10+ years of experience is not allowed to audible at the end of the year

Only 1 constant at the helm calling the shots.

Handcuffing your QB handcuffs the offense and it's borne out by the results of terrible play down the stretch and struggling on offense. Art Smith is running the stuff Tomlin wants him to. Canada was the same thing and Fitchner before him.

You continue to scapegoat everyone but Tomlin.
Sure except this wasn’t the 1st RW lost the ability to audible. RW forces you to run his offense like Rodgers it’s why RW is heading toward 3 teams in 3 games
 
I'm totally good with taking Egbuka, and based on the past results of their past highly drafted WRs, I think it's a reasonable assumption that he'll put up #2 WR numbers. All of Pickens (801 yards), Claypool (873 yards) and Juju (917 yards) all put up #2 WR numbers in their rookie years, and even Johnson put up 680 yards in his rookie year catching passes from Rudolph and Hodges. I think it's a pretty reasonable assumption that Egbuka could give the Steelers something in that range as the WR2.

That said, I'm still thinking about the idea of drafting Jeanty in the 1st round. The big selling point I see for it is that the FA WR group is substantially better than the FA RB group. PFF has only 2 RBs in their top-50 UFAs (Jones at 24 and Harris at 49), while they have 8 WRs in their top-50 UFAs (Higgins at 1, Godwin at 4, Cooper at 7, Diggs at 11, Hopkins at 34, Brown at 37, Slayton at 39 and Allen at 44). Are you better off with Jeanty in round 1 and signing one of Cooper or Diggs to be the WR2 or Egbuka in round 1 and either bringing Najee back or drafting a RB in round 2? Personally, I feel the first option yields a better team.

With how this team wants to play, I really think they need to prioritize getting as good of a RB as possible. While drafting a RB in round 1 with the state of this team is silly, I don't know that I'd say drafting a WR in round 1 makes more sense than drafting a RB in round 1.
I'm kind of in between those two strategies. Use the 1st rounder on the DL, sign one of those WR in free agency, and attack the RB position with pick 52. Maybe take a flier on a WR on day 3 (Jack Bech, Senior Bowl MVP) but I think the weakness of this years class compared to the FA group is notable.
 

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