OT: The Pittsburgher Thread: New Quarter Backs for the Handball team!

[JTG]

If they trade for Aiyuk, Khan starts putting us back in cap hell in 15 years. The proverbial can could always be kicked down the road. Honestly...not totally opposed at this point. We are close enough that I could get behind that.

 

[Night Shift]

Even if you think Wilson is a short term answer and even that is in question, I'm not sure why Aiyuk would be interested since there is no one else to get him the ball.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

Here is one proposed trade. I am posting it as the reactions will be fun.

Grade the Trade: Steelers pay a desperate price to acquire star WR in mock trade

The Steelers remain in trade rumors with the 49ers, and a mock trade has Pittsburgh paying a hefty price for a known commodity.

stillcurtain.com

Pittsburgh Steelers
RECEIVE
Brandon Aiyuk

San Francisco 49ers
RECEIVE
2025 1st Round Pick
Darnell Washington

 

[bigdaddyk88]

Even if you think Wilson is a short term answer and even that is in question, I'm not sure why Aiyuk would be interested since there is no one else to get him the ball.

Brandon wants paid ge don’t care who the qb is

 

[Night Shift]

Brandon wants paid ge don’t care who the qb is

Until he isn't getting enough touches with Cement hands back there.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

Until he isn't getting enough touches with Cement hands back there.

He only had 1 double digit target game this season. In the playoffs he averaged 7 a game he would see those same targets here those are DJ targets

 

[Peat]

Here is one proposed trade. I am posting it as the reactions will be fun.

Grade the Trade: Steelers pay a desperate price to acquire star WR in mock trade

The Steelers remain in trade rumors with the 49ers, and a mock trade has Pittsburgh paying a hefty price for a known commodity.

stillcurtain.com

If you think he's a real deal WR1, it's fair. I have to say his role in SF does give me slight doubts as to whether he is.

 

[JTG]

Mike Martz is a tough critic in his content. He really heaps praise on to Fautanu.

 

[Empoleon8771]

If you think he's a real deal WR1, it's fair. I have to say his role in SF does give me slight doubts as to whether he is.

I have full faith that Aiyuk is a WR1, I just don't know why the Steelers are the team in a position to be trading that kind of value for him.

I don't think that 1st has the potential of being very high, because being realistic, this team is likely going to be around 9-8 or 10-7 again next year. But at the same time, I don't see adding a WR1 making a huge difference for this team unless Wilson has a great year. And even then, I don't think this team has the coaching to do anything with that team.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

I have full faith that Aiyuk is a WR1, I just don't know why the Steelers are the team in a position to be trading that kind of value for him.

I don't think that 1st has the potential of being very high, because being realistic, this team is likely going to be around 9-8 or 10-7 again next year. But at the same time, I don't see adding a WR1 making a huge difference for this team unless Wilson has a great year. And even then, I don't think this team has the coaching to do anything with that team.

Every team who has a legit shot at a Superbowl has questions on their team. If this player (usually the quarterback) takes the next step in progression, if the couple of defensive additions gel, if, if, if.

The Steelers have made some great moves. But half their team is a bunch of ifs. Especially at Quarterback.

So, yes, they theoretically could be an elite WR away from being a legit SB contender. But they would need to pull an inside straight when you are only holding the 5 and 6 cards and are drawing three cards.

That is not the odds you need to be making a trade like this.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Every team who has a legit shot at a Superbowl has questions on their team. If this player (usually the quarterback) takes the next step in progression, if the couple of defensive additions gel, if, if, if.

The Steelers have made some great moves. But half their team is a bunch of ifs. Especially at Quarterback.

So, yes, they theoretically could be an elite WR away from being a legit SB contender. But they would need to pull an inside straight when you are only holding the 5 and 6 cards and are drawing three cards.

That is not the odds you need to be making a trade like this.

Yeah I don't necessarily mind trading a 1st at this point, look at how well trading a 1st for Minkah worked out. But trading a 1st for a WR just doesn't really do it for me personally.

 

[Ryder71]

Every team who has a legit shot at a Superbowl has questions on their team. If this player (usually the quarterback) takes the next step in progression, if the couple of defensive additions gel, if, if, if.

The Steelers have made some great moves. But half their team is a bunch of ifs. Especially at Quarterback.

So, yes, they theoretically could be an elite WR away from being a legit SB contender. But they would need to pull an inside straight when you are only holding the 5 and 6 cards and are drawing three cards.

That is not the odds you need to be making a trade like this.

I'm more confident in our current stable of QB's than last season by a sizable amount

As it pertains to possible compensation for Aiyuk we're not giving up a 1st.

 

[The Old Master]

Every team who has a legit shot at a Superbowl has questions on their team. If this player (usually the quarterback) takes the next step in progression, if the couple of defensive additions gel, if, if, if.

The Steelers have made some great moves. But half their team is a bunch of ifs. Especially at Quarterback.

So, yes, they theoretically could be an elite WR away from being a legit SB contender. But they would need to pull an inside straight when you are only holding the 5 and 6 cards and are drawing three cards.

That is not the odds you need to be making a trade like this.

if your holding the 5&6 it's not an inside straight.

 

[WickedWrister]

Aiyuk is certainly worth a 1st on the open market but to echo what other's have said, I get uneasy about trading future 1st round picks. It's more palatable when you know the actual pick slot, and can plan the rest of you draft accordingly.

Yeah I don't necessarily mind trading a 1st at this point, look at how well trading a 1st for Minkah worked out. But trading a 1st for a WR just doesn't really do it for me personally.

I don't know about you, but I was shitting my pants after we made that trade. Weren't we like 0-2 and Ben had just gone down for the year at that time? Felt like he single handedly prevented Miami from getting a top 10 pick out of that transaction.

In an alternate timeline, we never trade for Minkah and the Steelers draft Joe Burrow (or Tua ).

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

I have full faith that Aiyuk is a WR1, I just don't know why the Steelers are the team in a position to be trading that kind of value for him.

I don't think that 1st has the potential of being very high, because being realistic, this team is likely going to be around 9-8 or 10-7 again next year. But at the same time, I don't see adding a WR1 making a huge difference for this team unless Wilson has a great year. And even then, I don't think this team has the coaching to do anything with that team.

You touched on a word that I think is being lost in these Aiyuk conversations: value.

His value to SF is higher than in Pitt bc their offense is more modern and he's likely to see more balls and touches thrown his way. Art Smith's offense isn't exactly the place to go in a contract year.

If he was signed for a couple years and wasn't complaining about his contract, I think you pull the trigger. But as someone else mentioned, this will involve giving up PICK(s) PLUS CAP. The cap could rear it's head next offseason when the Steelers will need a 2025 QB. They also could use whatever draft capital they keep by not making this trade to move up to get a QB they really like next year. There is significant opportunity cost if you make this move. Add the fact that WR's are becoming more fungible every year like RB's, it doesn't make sense to pay a Wr1 major dollars. Especially when such a player is dependent on another guy to get him the ball.

For those reasons, I'm out on Aiyuk.

 

[WickedWrister]

Slightly off topic but that 2019 Dolphins team was basically the most blatant example of tanking I've seen in my lifetime.

Traded every veteran with a shred of value (Tannehill, Laremy Tunsil, Robert Quinn, Kenny Stills, Kiko Alonso, Kenyan Drake, Minkah) before or during the season. Hell, the NFL even investigated them for it (Flores claimed Owner Stephen Ross offered him $100k per loss) but he got off because it was interpreted as a "joke" and they got him on the Sean Payton/Tom Brady tampering shit. You can't convince me the NFL didn't turn a blind eye on the tanking allegations.

 

[JTG]

Tanking is a necessary evil in today's sports, IMO. You have to be so incredibly run as an organization to be able to not ever have a shot at top talent, but still compete every year. That's getting harder and harder to do because if any prospect has a shred of talent they are all over the interwebz.

I have no problem with a team looking at their roster, essentially surmising that best case scenario isn't even deemed successful, and then off-loading assets to work on building a contender. I'm not against it. It's good for the team and good for the young players like Minkah.

EDIT: Out of curiosity I looked up the Minkah trade and how the dust settled. It could have been a home run -

Traded • Minkah Fitzpatrick • 2020 fourth round pick (#135-Kevin Dotson) • 2021 seventh round pick (#245-Tre Norwood) to Steelers for • 2020 first round pick (#18-Austin Jackson) • 2020 fifth round pick (#154-Jason Strowbridge) • 2021 sixth round pick (#207-Jonathan Marshall) on 2019-09-16

 

[WickedWrister]

Tanking is a necessary evil in today's sports, IMO. You have to be so incredibly run as an organization to be able to not ever have a shot at top talent, but still compete every year. That's getting harder and harder to do because if any prospect has a shred of talent they are all over the interwebz.

I have no problem with a team looking at their roster, essentially surmising that best case scenario isn't even deemed successful, and then off-loading assets to work on building a contender. I'm not against it. It's good for the team and good for the young players like Minkah.

EDIT: Out of curiosity I looked up the Minkah trade and how the dust settled. It could have been a home run -

Traded • Minkah Fitzpatrick • 2020 fourth round pick (#135-Kevin Dotson) • 2021 seventh round pick (#245-Tre Norwood) to Steelers for • 2020 first round pick (#18-Austin Jackson) • 2020 fifth round pick (#154-Jason Strowbridge) • 2021 sixth round pick (#207-Jonathan Marshall) on 2019-09-16

I agree that what you described is a totally valid strategy that teams, especially in other professional sports leagues, employ. But that's why they all have implemented some form of lottery instead of just using inverse standings like the NFL. You just have to be smart about it.

If Flores had actual evidence of Ross incriminating himself (text messages, voicemails, recorded convo's etc...), the NFL would've been forced to come down on him like the hand of God.

Goodell said in a statement that the comment, even if made as a joke, risked damaging the integrity of the game.

“Every club is expected to make a good faith effort to win every game,” he said in a statement. “The integrity of the game, and public confidence in professional football, demand no less. An owner or senior executive must understand the weight that his or her words carry, and the risk that a comment will be taken seriously and acted upon, even if that is not the intent or expectation. Even if made in jest and not intended to be taken seriously, comments suggesting that draft position is more important than winning can be misunderstood and carry with them an unnecessary potential risk to the integrity of the game.”

 

[WickedWrister]

We might be getting a resolution here soon.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

We might be getting a resolution here soon.

If they were trading him they would simply tell him, not set up a meeting for the next day.

 

[Peat]

I have full faith that Aiyuk is a WR1, I just don't know why the Steelers are the team in a position to be trading that kind of value for him.

I don't think that 1st has the potential of being very high, because being realistic, this team is likely going to be around 9-8 or 10-7 again next year. But at the same time, I don't see adding a WR1 making a huge difference for this team unless Wilson has a great year. And even then, I don't think this team has the coaching to do anything with that team.

I believe Aiyuk is very talented but to rephrase what I said to maybe make the point better - is he as good as AJ Brown? Because that deal @Jaded-Fan threw out there is AJ Brown trade compensation and his contract will be bloody close.

I don't think Aiyuk's numbers merit being up there. Now Aiyuk's numbers mightn't reflect his talent due to SF being the way they are... but maybe SF didn't give him that usage because the talent is there. It's a slight question.

If Aiyuk is really that good... I mean, even if he can't get Wilson over the hurdle, there's worse things than having a WR of that calibre there and waiting for the next QB. I'm not a fan of the idea, but the difference between Aiyuk being a top ten WR and Aiyuk being the 20th best matters.

Hopefully that makes the point clearer.

 

[WickedWrister]

If they were trading him they would simply tell him, not set up a meeting for the next day.

He was the one that reportedly requested the meeting, FWIW.

 

[JTG]

My belief in PIckens is so strong that I wouldn't bring in another WR to take his money. There is a lot coming due for Khan, but a lot of those contracts he can probably let walk if his balls are big enough.

I'm also not writing Austin off. I think they can do some really unique things with Austin and Wilson with their speed and YAC ability.

 

[Peat]

My belief in PIckens is so strong that I wouldn't bring in another WR to take his money. There is a lot coming due for Khan, but a lot of those contracts he can probably let walk if his balls are big enough.

I'm also not writing Austin off. I think they can do some really unique things with Austin and Wilson with their speed and YAC ability.

The team can pay two top WRs if they want to though. That'll mean sacrifices elsewhere, but it can be done.

I'd also argue that having a great WR who can show them what it means to walk the walk is about the best thing you could do for the young WRs development. It'll take targets from them, but it'll also take away attention on the field and give them a role model. I think Pickens in particular could use having a mature adult who's his equal talent wise.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

It was only "seen as a distraction" because the media was making it a distraction, just because the entire Pittsburgh sports media schtick is to stir up controversy. It's not like Juju was out there and being an active liability due to not caring. He was still good, just not 2018 level good.

For as much of an idiot as Madden is, people need to realize he's a thoroughbred Yinzer and what he's saying is both heavily influential and also reflective of what a lot of Yinzers think. With him, I would confidently say that Madden issues with players are heavily racially influenced. I don't think it's much of a stretch to extend that beyond Madden.

This narrative that Juju's dances didn't impact the team needs to stop. The Bengals, Bills and Cowboys didn't like it, yet he continued to do it.

First Call: Bengals warn JuJu of pregame dancing, Steelers won't have to deal with Bengals top RB

The Bengals aren’t wild about Pittsburgh Steelers wide receiver JuJu Smith-Schuster and his pregame dancing. The Steelers won’t have to prepare for Cincinnati’s star running back. And some controversy surrounding the Cleveland Browns-Baltimore Ravens game Monday night. That’s what we’ve got to...

triblive.com

The Bengals were fired up for this game and Bell even spoke about it being a motivation. You don't give bulletin board material to other teams unnecessarily.

Reactions: Bengals' Vonn Bell forces JuJu Smith-Schuster fumble with big hit

Vonn Bell remarked before Monday night's game that JuJu Smith-Schuster dancing on the opposing team's logo was disrespectful.

www.cincinnati.com

So uh yea, it literally was the definition of a distraction that was done by JJSS himself. Other players hated he was doing it and calling it disrespectful. But I guess that's the media's fault....