OT: The Pittsburgher Thread: Its January and we are still talking about Handball!?! Currently 10-6

[Buddy Bizarre]

Laughed out of these message boards, maybe. In the offices of AR III and the national media Tomlin adoration society they'll ask critically about it for 1 day before praising Tomlin again.
Wilson and Teryl Austin will walk the plank for the failure. Wilson probably deserved. They'll also throw a shit ton of capital at WR even if they trade Pickens because Khan will be lambasted for his lack of playmakers. But it'll just lead to the same 9-8 next year with Justin Fields.

I'm so sick of the BS about the problem being execution by the players:
.

YOU picked the players on this team

YOU picked the coaches whose job it is to teach the players to execute.

YOU decide who does and doesn't play.

IF the players YOU put on the field don't execute the way you want them to, YOU can make the decision to bench them and put others out there (unless of course no one YOU picked can execute... if so, again, that's on YOU).


If execution really is the problem, that's still on.YOU!!!

 

[Andy99]

To paraphrase, arguably, the best coach ever: Mike Tomlin does what he does. They come out and run the same thing, game after game. It doesn’t matter the opponent, the players, or even the decade.
- Bill Belichick

And that’s why the Steelers continue to lose regularly at the end of the season and particularly lose playoff games lol…

 

[ImporterExporter]

"We didn't execute"

-Mike Tomlin

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

It’s not a great look that the guy hired because he would make this run game elite puts out a worse running product than maybe the most incompetent NFL OC we’ve ever seen.

Been pounding this drum for the entire year- especially when it relates to Najee

The Steelers went from 13th ranked in rushing yards to 8th, by running it 50 times more than last year. So, they were not only bad, they doubled down on it and beat it to death.

Also, highlights the stupidity of using total yards as a way of measuring anything in the NFL. Which is why I roll my eyes at the Mike Evans 1,000 yard club as well as Barkley's accomplishments. Both great players obviously, but their predecessors did it in less games.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I would also take a little more stock in everything else failing Wilson more than Wilson being a problem if we didn’t see Denver’s offense improve a lot with Bo Nix sliding into arguably a less talented supporting cast. Maybe Nix is way better than I thought but there’s a reason why Payton couldn’t get rid of Wilson fast enough.

It’s not all Wilson. The offense needs more talent. But Wilson is certainly part of the problem.

Nix has performed worse this year with the Broncos than Wilson did this year with the Steelers or last year with the Broncos. The only thing Nix did better was get sacked substantially less, but the rest of the passing metrics are basically the same or worse than what Wilson did last year.

The reason the Broncos improved so much is because their defense went from 27th to 3rd.

 

[MrBrightside]

Nix has performed worse this year with the Broncos than Wilson did this year with the Steelers or last year with the Broncos. The only thing Nix did better was get sacked substantially less, but the rest of the passing metrics are basically the same or worse than what Wilson did last year.

The reason the Broncos improved so much is because their defense went from 27th to 3rd.

Well they scored 80 more points in 2024 than they did in 2023 but I'm sure Wilson had a better TD% or something.

 

[Empoleon8771]

And if you want to reference The Ringer's QB rankings, they have Wilson and Nix with these stats:

I can completely entertain the idea that Wilson is just washed up and isn't good anymore, but I will flat out not entertain the argument that the offense's problems are even remotely primarily on the QBs.

Well they scored 80 more points in 2024 than they did in 2023 but I'm sure Wilson had a better TD% or something.

And the Steelers this year scored 76 more points this year with Wilson/Fields than they did last year, all while their WR group got worse and their rushing game got worse.

 

[The Old Master]

I'm so sick of the BS about the problem being execution by the players:
.

YOU picked the players on this team

YOU picked the coaches whose job it is to teach the players to execute.

YOU decide who does and doesn't play.

IF the players YOU put on the field don't execute the way you want them to, YOU can make the decision to bench them and put others out there (unless of course no one YOU picked can execute... if so, again, that's on YOU).


If execution really is the problem, that's still on.YOU!!!

for the most part, I'm with you. but the reason going with rw over fields was his experience, and what happened at the end of the game was not the performance of an experienced qb. and while clock management is on the coach, this time it was more on the qb. imo

 

[Empoleon8771]

Looking at the EPA stats though, one thing I will say is that Fields is definitely more intriguing when looking at his advanced stats. They weren't anything amazing, but Fields ranked 16th in EPA/play, 18th in success rate and 13th in CPOE. I don't think those numbers are anything special, but going into next year with Fields based on saving money to use on a WR and pointing at his pretty good analytics is an argument I can get behind.

The big concern I have though is that they need to be more aggressive with Fields at QB than what they were earlier in the year. I'm totally good running a more college style option offense with Fields at QB, but you can't limit your passing to 5-10 yard check downs every time. That said, Fields' aDOT (air yards per target) is actually only a bit less than Wilson's (7.94 to 7.77), so taking out the moonballs maybe makes the two equal.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

View attachment 957052

We legit had the two most inefficient receivers in the NFL in terms of yards per route run (min 300 routes). *Pending week 18 update

Hmmm...believe I was bitching about VJ the entire freakin year

On the offensive side, the coaching and scheme are NOT maximizing the talent and ability of the players. You can probably count on one hand players that improved significantly from their rookie year over the last decade. We don't develop players.

 

[xlm34]

Okay, so why do those random advanced stats show that Wilson stinks but his other more basic stats not count?

Among starting QBs, here is where Wilson ranked in a multitude of stats:

TD%: 15th
INT%: 8th
Y/A: 15th
AY/A: 12th
Y/C: 11th
Y/G: 17th
Passer rating: 14th

He was right on the average tier for basically all of these stats with basically no WR talent around him.

These aren’t random advanced stats though. They actually take situational football into account and capture of what goes into playing QB than what something like passer rating would.

Passer Rating as a whole is something I’m just so adamantly against when it comes to comparing QBs. A good QB will have a high passer rating, but so could a bad QB.

 

[Empoleon8771]

These aren’t random advanced stats though. They actually take situational football into account and capture of what goes into playing QB than what something like passer rating would.

Passer Rating as a whole is something I’m just so adamantly against when it comes to comparing QBs. A good QB will have a high passer rating, but so could a bad QB.

But again, why is something like EPA/play gospel while all other stats don't count? I'm not dismissing those stats but they're not the only pieces to judge a QB. Not only that, but some of those advanced stats (namely success rate and air yards) are heavily dependent on play calls as well.

From reading Wilson's advanced stats on the year, he looks like a guy who was mostly a checkdown plus moon ball QB that was very accurate doing that (3rd in CPOE). With how this offense runs and with the talent around him, I am very skeptical for how a QB can realistically be more than that here.

That's actually why I think there is a decent argument to make that this team is better off stylistically with Fields over Wilson. This team simply does not have the WR talent to make Wilson's moonballs effective enough to override the rest of his game, you need more than just Pickens to do that.

 

[MrBrightside]

Hmmm...believe I was bitching about VJ the entire freakin year

On the offensive side, the coaching and scheme are NOT maximizing the talent and ability of the players. You can probably count on one hand players that improved significantly from their rookie year over the last decade. We don't develop players.

Despite what BigDaddy kept telling us all offseason that we'd be fine with Jefferson and Quez Watkins as our 2 and 3 WR, Khan's failure to address the WR2 was his biggest failing.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

DK finally skewering Tomlin. Guess he doesn't want that media pass next year huh

Been saying this same shit forever. Tomlin doesn't understand offense

Mike Tomlin, Steelers conduct clinic on idiotic coaching

PITTSBURGH - A wave of debatable decisions by Mike Tomlin left a mark on the Steelers' 19-17 loss to the Bengals tonight at Acrisure Stadium.

dkpittsburghsports.com

 

[ChaosAgent]

And if you want to reference The Ringer's QB rankings, they have Wilson and Nix with these stats:

View attachment 957064

View attachment 957065

I can completely entertain the idea that Wilson is just washed up and isn't good anymore, but I will flat out not entertain the argument that the offense's problems are even remotely primarily on the QBs.



And the Steelers this year scored 76 more points this year with Wilson/Fields than they did last year, all while their WR group got worse and their rushing game got worse.

But their coordinator, as peeved as I am with Smith, got significantly better.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

Despite what BigDaddy kept telling us all offseason that we'd be fine with Jefferson and Quez Watkins as our 2 and 3 WR, Khan's failure to address the WR2 was his biggest failing.

I think they have such a narrow set of traits that they need in a WR to fit this offense and to complement the other pieces they have... it's going to be tough to find that guy.

• great and willing blocker
• team-first guy who cares more about winning than targets
• route runner who can beat man coverage
• hard worker with talent to provide push to GP
• outside receiver type who isn't built like CA3

Honestly, I think they could really also benefit from a big slot or receiver TE type, whether or not you're still going to build around Freiermuth.

They want AJ Brown or Aiyuk or young Hines Ward. If they're going to get that, it means either a trade up in round 1 or going completely out of character to draft someone from a non-name brand school or from west of the Mississippi (the land that doesn't exist for Steelers' FO)

 

[MrBrightside]

But again, why is something like EPA/play gospel while all other stats don't count? I'm not dismissing those stats but they're not the only pieces to judge a QB. Not only that, but some of those advanced stats (namely success rate and air yards) are heavily dependent on play calls as well.

From reading Wilson's advanced stats on the year, he looks like a guy who was mostly a checkdown plus moon ball QB that was very accurate doing that (3rd in CPOE). With how this offense runs and with the talent around him, I am very skeptical for how a QB can realistically be more than that here.

That's actually why I think there is a decent argument to make that this team is better off stylistically with Fields over Wilson. This team simply does not have the WR talent to make Wilson's moonballs effective enough to override the rest of his game, you need more than just Pickens to do that.

I mean, this like arguing that we should ignore WAR and wRC+ and instead look at BA and RBI. Some stats better encapsulate the full picture.

 

[Empoleon8771]

But their coordinator, as peeved as I am with Smith, got significantly better.

He did but I'm not sure how good of an OC Smith actually is. Canada just sucks

The only way the play calling got much better from last year to this year IMO were the moon balls and the screens that tended to work really well. Their run game and intermediate passing game play calling was still dogshit.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

Despite what BigDaddy kept telling us all offseason that we'd be fine with Jefferson and Quez Watkins as our 2 and 3 WR, Khan's failure to address the WR2 was his biggest failing.

I said those 2 were good enough to be wr 2 or 3 on teams in the superbowl because they were. The rams were in the sb with Jefferson but that’s because they had a triple crown wr 1. Watkins was behind AJ and Smith
I also wanted Aiyuk but trading for a slayton type made no sense because wz have ca3 already
I am 100 percent behind signing Godwin or Higgins and drafting another TE

 

[MrBrightside]

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

Would love Rex to be the Steelers coach. Get some f***in accountability in this building

Ryan: If Jets HC, I'll end Rodgers 'country club'

Rex Ryan said on ESPN New York radio Monday that he is convinced he will be hired to return as the team's new head coach.

www.espn.com

 

[MrBrightside]

God if he says this one more time I'm going to vomit.

 

[Peat]

I'd just roll with Fields next year and let him sink or swim. He sinks, we are in good position in 26. He swims...we have a franchise QB.

Much as I've believed in this philosophy over the years I've come the realisation that there's a third option -

They float.

And that's what Steelers QBs do.

 

[pistolpete11]

We all agree the Steelers skill position players suck for the most part and their offensive philosophy is outdated.

Why are we quoting stats like they aren't affected by this?

 

[xlm34]

But again, why is something like EPA/play gospel while all other stats don't count? I'm not dismissing those stats but they're not the only pieces to judge a QB. Not only that, but some of those advanced stats (namely success rate and air yards) are heavily dependent on play calls as well.

From reading Wilson's advanced stats on the year, he looks like a guy who was mostly a checkdown plus moon ball QB that was very accurate doing that (3rd in CPOE). With how this offense runs and with the talent around him, I am very skeptical for how a QB can realistically be more than that here.

That's actually why I think there is a decent argument to make that this team is better off stylistically with Fields over Wilson. This team simply does not have the WR talent to make Wilson's moonballs effective enough to override the rest of his game, you need more than just Pickens to do that.

It’s not gospel but imo it does a much better job of capturing the whole picture than a lot of base level stats where a 7 yard completion on 3rd and 9 counts the same as a 7 yard completion on 3rd and 6. Or just doesn’t take sacks into account like passer rating.