OT: The Pittsburgher Thread: Its January and we are still talking about Handball!?! Currently 10-6

[pistolpete11]

I was at the game, so maybe my view is skewed, but I didn't think Wilson was that bad. They had no run game to speak of, the pass blocking is mediocre at best, Pickens suddenly can't catch, you had other guys not making plays on easily catchable balls like Austin and Muth at the end, and that's on top of having limited weapons to begin with.

The 2 minute drill at the end, particularly the scramble, was inexcusable, but I think it's being lazy to blame the QB. It felt like a game where they could have pulled it out with a guy like Fields playing hero ball which Russ isn't capable of anymore, but that's not a recipe for real success. This team is just rotten and it starts at the top. He had me tricked for a few games there, but Tomlin needs to go.

They have a chance next week because it's Steelers-Ravens, even if I'd bet on a blowout the other way, but if they get by them, they are 100% getting embarrassed by KC again. Tomlin should be fired, but the fact that another team may be willing to trade a 1st for him is a wet dream. It is addition by subtraction and an extra 1st would be HUGE. This team has holes, no doubt about it, but they've got a lot of good pieces in place, too. Another strong draft with an extra 1st and some coaching from the 21st century and they'd be a good team....an actual good team, not what we thought they were like a month ago. Even if all that happened, I don't know that I'd call them Super Bowl contenders until they find a real franchise QB, but teams have won Super Bowls with Nick Foles and Old Man Manning. Wouldn't be out of the question with Russ, IMO.

 

[MrBrightside]

The fact that they had that offensive performance against a team that ranked 27th in defense coming into the game and who fired its DC as quickly as they possibly could after the season would lead a serious organization to make significant changes. But here we are.

Can't agree with Pistolpete on Wilson. Again, the fact that the scheme and weapons are bad doesn't make Wilson good, or even good enough. No QB is going to thrive under Tomlin/Smith with this collection of players, but Wilson is just so limited - check downs or prayers down the sidelines - and while the OL is trash, he runs into more sacks than any QB I've ever seen. They just can't run this back with him.

 

[pistolpete11]

Just to further vent...

Tomlin going for it on 4th at the end of the first half was so stupid. Yes, you should be able to pick it up, but even if you do, you still needed another what? 30-40 yards in 40 seconds just to have a shot at the FG. The downside is you give them points if you don't get it. Of all times for Tomlin to get aggressive, THAT'S the time he picked?

On top of that, it was as predictable of a play call as possible. Do play action and sneak one of the TE out. It'd be more likely to not only pick it up, but get a chunk of yards making getting into FG range more realistic. Lucky it dind't turn into 7 for the Bungles.

Williams makes a great catch AGAIN for a big gain AGAIN and he didn't get another target...AGAIN Somebody is going to have to explain to me why they aren't using this guy given their WR situaiton.

AGAIN Patterson was on the field in crunch time and AGAIN they gave him the ball.

I'm completely out on Pickens. Trade him. I've acknowledged all the red flags for the last 3 years, but at least he'd catch the ball. I think this is beyond repair.

Again, that 2min drill was atrocious. Russ wasting time to scramble for 3 yards was beyond stupid. My mother knows you need to throw the ball away or get out of bounds in that spot. Then to follow it up with a sack. Not sure what the plan was with the last throw even if Muth catches it. Didn't seem like enough time to get the ball set and spike it, but at that point, I guess I don't know what else you do. It's why they needed that extra time and the timeout. Just pretty inexcusable for a veteran QB.

 

[The Old Master]

None of it really matters until Tomlin is a highly paid TV commentator, but indulging in a look at the future is still fun.

you really think anyone would pay mt just to hear his "they don't live in their fears" bull?

 

[pistolpete11]

Can't agree with Pistolpete on Wilson. Again, the fact that the scheme and weapons are bad doesn't make Wilson good, or even good enough. No QB is going to thrive under Tomlin/Smith with this collection of players, but Wilson is just so limited - check downs or prayers down the sidelines - and while the OL is trash, he runs into more sacks than any QB I've ever seen. They just can't run this back with him.

Think about what you just said, though.

The scheme sucks. There are no weapons. O-line is trash. No QB is going to look good....but you're mad that Wilson doesn't look good?

He has his limitations, but he's still a decent QB and unless something unforeseen happens, is still their best option for next year.

 

[JTG]

I was at the game, so maybe my view is skewed, but I didn't think Wilson was that bad. They had no run game to speak of, the pass blocking is mediocre at best, Pickens suddenly can't catch, you had other guys not making plays on easily catchable balls like Austin and Muth at the end, and that's on top of having limited weapons to begin with.

The 2 minute drill at the end, particularly the scramble, was inexcusable, but I think it's being lazy to blame the QB. It felt like a game where they could have pulled it out with a guy like Fields playing hero ball which Russ isn't capable of anymore, but that's not a recipe for real success. This team is just rotten and it starts at the top. He had me tricked for a few games there, but Tomlin needs to go.

They have a chance next week because it's Steelers-Ravens, even if I'd bet on a blowout the other way, but if they get by them, they are 100% getting embarrassed by KC again. Tomlin should be fired, but the fact that another team may be willing to trade a 1st for him is a wet dream. It is addition by subtraction and an extra 1st would be HUGE. This team has holes, no doubt about it, but they've got a lot of good pieces in place, too. Another strong draft with an extra 1st and some coaching from the 21st century and they'd be a good team....an actual good team, not what we thought they were like a month ago. Even if all that happened, I don't know that I'd call them Super Bowl contenders until they find a real franchise QB, but teams have won Super Bowls with Nick Foles and Old Man Manning. Wouldn't be out of the question with Russ, IMO.

This is my take as well. Thanks for the insight, Pistol!

 

[MrBrightside]

Think about what you just said, though.

The scheme sucks. There are no weapons. O-line is trash. No QB is going to look good....but you're mad that Wilson doesn't look good?

He has his limitations, but he's still a decent QB and unless something unforeseen happens, is still their best option for next year.

He may be the best option for next year. I acknowledge that, even as it depresses me. But this feels like the Kenny Pickett argument all over again - bad QB play is excused by the OC and surrounding cast, and while those are legitimate issues, Wilson also missed a lot of open guys because his pocket presence is abysmal. And whatever benefit of whatever doubt I was willing to give went up in smoke on that last drive, something that was the worst set of decision making I've ever seen at a professional level.

 

[JTG]

If the team bombs next year, they should very honestly trade anything of value and really go at it from the ground up. TJ and Minkah will both be in their 30's. Get picks for them and do a really quick retool in 26 and 27 with a whole bunch of picks and two draft classes that are looking to shape up exceptionally. 26 may be "the" class of this decade.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

So RW has the 2nd best qbr in football when he targets his first read when that read isn’t available he is just above Watson for 2nd to last

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

If the team bombs next year, they should very honestly trade anything of value and really go at it from the ground up. TJ and Minkah will both be in their 30's. Get picks for them and do a really quick retool in 26 and 27 with a whole bunch of picks and two draft classes that are looking to shape up exceptionally. 26 may be "the" class of this decade.

I feel like this has been posted every year since I started following this thread. (Not necessarily by you…)

 

[JTG]

I feel like this has been posted every year since I started following this thread. (Not necessarily by you…)

Probably has been by me because it has had to be done for 10 years. This is why the team is where it is.

25 isnt a great draft, but it shapes up good for our positional needs - specifically DL.

 

[ImporterExporter]

Russ doesn't have the wheels to get out of trouble which he puts himself in often because he holds the ball forever.

And as I've said all year, behind a below average line, is a recipe for disaster.

Prior to the 4 game slide, Mike T and Russ were proving some people wrong. I admitted we looked better than I thought possible. And then we played actual real, quality NFL teams with a significant X's and O's advantages.

So those saying that pulling Fields was the wrong call, are ultimately proven right.

Fields may not have gotten us a win in the past 4 games, but he was playing mistake free football for the most part and can run with the best of the best, which is becoming a must have in today's game. Unless you have a pocket only QB that understands defenses and has a quality, quick release, in a modern scheme, you need someone who can turn trashy line play and subpar schemes into positives with the legs.

And I get that Fields was hurt for a few games, but when he wasn't, was barely used. That speaks to the lack of innovation and schematic forethinking.

Art Rooney and Mike Tomlin have molded this franchise into a consistent, mediocre, façade. And there is no end in sight.

 

[WickedWrister]

 

[xlm34]

It won't. He holds on to the ball way too long. I think Moore has actually done decently well considering he needs to hold off a rusher for 7 seconds or more.

Just to add to this, look at what happened to the Denver line in pass protection:

2023: 45 sacks in 15 games with Russ
2024: 24 sacks in 17 games

The line with him (and Fields to be fair) is always going to appear worse than it actually is. We’re just watching Russ ball. He plays one way and that’s never gonna change.

 

[WickedWrister]

We legit had the two most inefficient receivers in the NFL in terms of yards per route run (min 300 routes). *Pending week 18 update

 

[pistolpete11]

He may be the best option for next year. I acknowledge that, even as it depresses me. But this feels like the Kenny Pickett argument all over again - bad QB play is excused by the OC and surrounding cast, and while those are legitimate issues, Wilson also missed a lot of open guys because his pocket presence is abysmal. And whatever benefit of whatever doubt I was willing to give went up in smoke on that last drive, something that was the worst set of decision making I've ever seen at a professional level.

Well, I'm beyond blaming OC's. I do think Canada was uniquely bad, but this is what Tomlin wants. Until he's gone, nothing will dramatically change.

 

[ImporterExporter]

How about you send us a couple of picks for the guy who hired Arthur. Take both.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Tbh I'd have less issues with the criticisms thrown towards Wilson if those criticisms weren't also paired with praising of Fields, especially in the context of people complaining about Wilson not reading the field well. Did we not see Fields do literally the same exact thing?

Neither of the QBs are problems on this team, they're both decent QBs stuck on a team that sucks ass offensively in pretty much every other aspect. They're not anything special, I think Wilson is an average starter while Fields is a great backup, but neither are going to have any sort of success in this offense with the other issues around it.

The Steelers good solid results out of their QBs this year, they finished with a 21-6 TD-INT ratio, about a 95 passer rating and were generally in the middle of the pack (usually 12-16 range) when it came to starts like TD%, Y/C, Y/A, AY/A, NY/A and ANY/A. Wilson and Fields performed to their capabilities, the issues with the offense was the offensive support around them.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

Fields would be a better option to run this offense where they treat it like throwing before 3rd down is a penalty.

I just don't get why they abandoned Russ attacking man coverage deep when it unlocked the offense when Russ returned from injury.

Quick: when was the last time the Steelers threw the ball on 4th down? Used playaction to throw something other than a deep sideline ball on either 4th down and short or even 3rd down and short? They've done nothing but inside run, QB sneak, & QB keeper outside for what seems like an entire season.

 

[ZorkEnchanter]

Let that sink in... Dude can't run an offense, just sunk Atlanta... now the Jets want to talk.

 

[MrBrightside]

Tbh I'd have less issues with the criticisms thrown towards Wilson if those criticisms weren't also paired with praising of Fields, especially in the context of people complaining about Wilson not reading the field well. Did we not see Fields do literally the same exact thing?

Neither of the QBs are problems on this team, they're both decent QBs stuck on a team that sucks ass offensively in pretty much every other aspect. They're not anything special, I think Wilson is an average starter while Fields is a great backup, but neither are going to have any sort of success in this offense with the other issues around it.

The Steelers good solid results out of their QBs this year, they finished with a 21-6 TD-INT ratio, about a 95 passer rating and were generally in the middle of the pack (usually 12-16 range) when it came to starts like TD%, Y/C, Y/A, AY/A, NY/A and ANY/A. Wilson and Fields performed to their capabilities, the issues with the offense was the offensive support around them.

There's no world where Wilson is an average starter. There just isn't:



I'll again admit that I don't have a better solution for this year or next, but the idea that that level of QB play isn't a problem is false. It may not be the biggest problem, but it's still a problem.

 

[Goalie_Bob]

Just to add to this, look at what happened to the Denver line in pass protection:

2023: 45 sacks in 15 games with Russ
2024: 24 sacks in 17 games

The line with him (and Fields to be fair) is always going to appear worse than it actually is. We’re just watching Russ ball. He plays one way and that’s never gonna change.

Just for reference, the Broncos did not spend any high draft picks in 2024 on OLineman and they did not pick up any high impact FA OLineman.

 

[xlm34]

I would also take a little more stock in everything else failing Wilson more than Wilson being a problem if we didn’t see Denver’s offense improve a lot with Bo Nix sliding into arguably a less talented supporting cast. Maybe Nix is way better than I thought but there’s a reason why Payton couldn’t get rid of Wilson fast enough.

It’s not all Wilson. The offense needs more talent. But Wilson is certainly part of the problem.

Just for reference, the Broncos did not spend any high draft picks in 2024 on OLineman and they did not pick up any high impact FA OLineman.

Yeah they actually lost Cushenberry so you could argue it’s a worse OL now than it was last year.

 

[Empoleon8771]

There's no world where Wilson is an average starter. There just isn't:



I'll again admit that I don't have a better solution for this year or next, but the idea that that level of QB play isn't a problem is false. It may not be the biggest problem, but it's still a problem.

Okay, so why do those random advanced stats show that Wilson stinks but his other more basic stats not count?

Among starting QBs, here is where Wilson ranked in a multitude of stats:

TD%: 15th
INT%: 8th
Y/A: 15th
AY/A: 12th
Y/C: 11th
Y/G: 17th
Passer rating: 14th

He was right on the average tier for basically all of these stats with basically no WR talent around him.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

What did the offensive coaches do for the last 10 days, or the entire season for that matter, this teams playbook must be more like a pamphlet, there's zero innovation, and they're not physical or athletic enough to impose their will against teams

To paraphrase, arguably, the best coach ever: Mike Tomlin does what he does. They come out and run the same thing, game after game. It doesn’t matter the opponent, the players, or even the decade.

- Bill Belichick