OT: The Pittsburgher Thread: 5 and 2 Justin who? Hand the Fields to Wilson

[WickedWrister]

 

[Peat]

I’m not in any way saying Tomlin is blameless, but again it does not matter what other people on defense are being paid if your cornerback room is Donte Jackson, James Pierre, Corey Trice, Cam Sutton, and Beanie Bishop. That’s gonna get lit up by any decent QB.

I've got to say my head is in a similar place. It starts with talent, there isn't enough in a lot of areas. Which is obviously on Tomlin (among others) anyway, but that's what I'm most gassed at.

Tomlin does a great job of disguising it with the extremely talented pieces he has against a lot of teams, but the moment a team can escape that trap it's all over. And, tbf, I think the fact he's still using a ton of Tampa Zone concepts that a lot of other people in the league know well does then compound the problem (see how Steichen has killed Tomlin 3/3 with back-up QBs).

 

[xlm34]

I've got to say my head is in a similar place. It starts with talent, there isn't enough in a lot of areas. Which is obviously on Tomlin (among others) anyway, but that's what I'm most gassed at.

Tomlin does a great job of disguising it with the extremely talented pieces he has against a lot of teams, but the moment a team can escape that trap it's all over. And, tbf, I think the fact he's still using a ton of Tampa Zone concepts that a lot of other people in the league know well does then compound the problem (see how Steichen has killed Tomlin 3/3 with back-up QBs).

Yeah I think Tomlin is super stubborn with what he does and don’t expect it to change. It’s just that this year I wonder how much trying to do some more complex stuff would work out. If they’re blowing coverages playing a simple scheme, I don’t have much confidence in them executing something else. Which again — combo of coaching and talent.

It’s not gonna be a popular thing to say that they need to invest more in the defense but they 1000% need to spend some higher picks on the secondary.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

Yeah I think Tomlin is super stubborn with what he does and don’t expect it to change. It’s just that this year I wonder how much trying to do some more complex stuff would work out. If they’re blowing coverages playing a simple scheme, I don’t have much confidence in them executing something else. Which again — combo of coaching and talent.

It’s not gonna be a popular thing to say that they need to invest more in the defense but they 1000% need to spend some higher picks on the secondary.

Its been fairly obvious that this draft is going to be defense heavy. Dl and secondary
Free agency should be about wr 2

 

[MrBrightside]

Yeah I think Tomlin is super stubborn with what he does and don’t expect it to change. It’s just that this year I wonder how much trying to do some more complex stuff would work out. If they’re blowing coverages playing a simple scheme, I don’t have much confidence in them executing something else. Which again — combo of coaching and talent.

It’s not gonna be a popular thing to say that they need to invest more in the defense but they 1000% need to spend some higher picks on the secondary.

I mean, that's both necessary and fairly insane. You have a 1st in Minkah and basically a 1st in Porter. If you can't piece together a functional secondary with 1/2 of it consisting of high picks, you have a coaching/scouting issue.

 

[WickedWrister]

 

[bigdaddyk88]

I mean, that's both necessary and fairly insane. You have a 1st in Minkah and basically a 1st in Porter. If you can't piece together a functional secondary with 1/2 of it consisting of high picks, you have a coaching/scouting issue.

It was semi functional with porter. They need cbs who can play both press and zone

 

[Empoleon8771]

Tbh I thought Jackson had a very good start to the year but yeah that PFF ranking is yucky.

 

[Hullois]

Time to bench wilson and play fields again

 

[MrBrightside]

It was semi functional with porter. They need cbs who can play both press and zone

Well yes, ideally you’d have multiple excellent corners. But you can’t be this helpless against any decent QB when you have the investment in the D they already have. Bad coaching, bad development and/or bad pro scouting, but it can’t happen.

 

[MrBrightside]

Not a huge thing given how few KO really get returned by Smith’s attachment to this guy remains baffling and counterproductive.

 

[MrBrightside]

They need better personnel but you can’t defend this coaching staff. This stuff can’t happen.

 

[Andy99]

Yep, pretty much…

https://www.post-gazette.com/sports/paul-zeise/2024/12/26/steelers-tomlin-afc-north-collapse-chiefs-ravens-russell-wilson/stories/202412250068

 

[bigdaddyk88]

Yep, pretty much…

https://www.post-gazette.com/sports/paul-zeise/2024/12/26/steelers-tomlin-afc-north-collapse-chiefs-ravens-russell-wilson/stories/202412250068

Yes its his baby the defense and losing sucks
I just find it funny how before the season everyone said they needed to bank as many wins as possible before the bye because of the gauntlet after the bye and then are shocked when they lose
They are only good enough to win a playoff game but hopefully they spend money on the offense in free agency and get better and younger on defense

 

[Peat]

Yes its his baby the defense and losing sucks
I just find it funny how before the season everyone said they needed to bank as many wins as possible before the bye because of the gauntlet after the bye and then are shocked when they lose
They are only good enough to win a playoff game but hopefully they spend money on the offense in free agency and get better and younger on defense

It's a fair point that the strong start to the season has changed the narrative.

But at the same time, a team losing three games in a row by two scores is going to shock most teams, nevermind one in a playoff position.

 

[JTG]

Yep, pretty much…

https://www.post-gazette.com/sports/paul-zeise/2024/12/26/steelers-tomlin-afc-north-collapse-chiefs-ravens-russell-wilson/stories/202412250068

As the say going, "Mike Tomlin is going to fire Mike Tomlin and then hire Mike Tomlin as the new coordinator." Always has been, always will be. And decisions he should make but didn't - Brian Flores being the DC instead of Austin for example.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

Jarrett Bailey
@JBaileyNFL
·
5h
Bill Cowher assistants that went on to become head coaches: 9

Mike Tomlin assistants that went on to become head coaches: 0

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

If you have 15 minutes




I admit, for like a week or two I thought they were legit contenders.

Maybe the most maddening part of all this is Tomlin approaches the playoffs the exact same way. He plays not to lose, which is fine for NHALS but doesn't win playoff games. Except I think Tomlin believes he actually plays to win, which is why the approach never changes. Or I guess when you view the playoffs as a lottery ticket you think it's just bad luck and not your game plan and scheme.

Believes his own bullshit. Probably no bigger indictment of him.

 

[pistolpete11]

It's a fair point that the strong start to the season has changed the narrative.

But at the same time, a team losing three games in a row by two scores is going to shock most teams, nevermind one in a playoff position.

Exactly. If they lost because Russ threw an INT or because the backup CB blew a coverage or something. OK. Get 'em next time. But they got dominated. On both sides of the ball. 3 weeks in a row. That doesn't happen to good teams, regardless of opponents. You should be able to at least keep these games close and then win them every once in a while.

I don't even really know what to say anymore. Now the team is openly calling out their teammates saying 10 guys are doing their job and 1 guy isn't (I assume they are talking about Pickens, but maybe others, too). The new guy on the defense is saying they are making Week 2 mistakes. Tomlin went from coach of the year to the same spot he was in last year where there's at least some people questioning him.

It's really hard as an outsider to say who's at fault, but it's very similar to the Penguins. There's been new assistant coaches. There's been a ton of roster turnover. New GM. But there's been 1 head coach and we're seeing the same results over and over and over again.

 

[pistolpete11]

Yep, pretty much…

https://www.post-gazette.com/sports/paul-zeise/2024/12/26/steelers-tomlin-afc-north-collapse-chiefs-ravens-russell-wilson/stories/202412250068

Quoting for emphasis:

Six coaches who have won championships more recently than Tomlin has been to a Super Bowl have been fired.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

Exactly. If they lost because Russ threw an INT or because the backup CB blew a coverage or something. OK. Get 'em next time. But they got dominated. On both sides of the ball. 3 weeks in a row. That doesn't happen to good teams, regardless of opponents. You should be able to at least keep these games close and then win them every once in a while.

I don't even really know what to say anymore. Now the team is openly calling out their teammates saying 10 guys are doing their job and 1 guy isn't (I assume they are talking about Pickens, but maybe others, too). The new guy on the defense is saying they are making Week 2 mistakes. Tomlin went from coach of the year to the same spot he was in last year where there's at least some people questioning him.

It's really hard as an outsider to say who's at fault, but it's very similar to the Penguins. There's been new assistant coaches. There's been a ton of roster turnover. New GM. But there's been 1 head coach and we're seeing the same results over and over and over again.

Tomlin is Marvin Lewis in a once vaulted winning franchise. That fakery has run its course

 

[bigdaddyk88]

Exactly. If they lost because Russ threw an INT or because the backup CB blew a coverage or something. OK. Get 'em next time. But they got dominated. On both sides of the ball. 3 weeks in a row. That doesn't happen to good teams, regardless of opponents. You should be able to at least keep these games close and then win them every once in a while.

I don't even really know what to say anymore. Now the team is openly calling out their teammates saying 10 guys are doing their job and 1 guy isn't (I assume they are talking about Pickens, but maybe others, too). The new guy on the defense is saying they are making Week 2 mistakes. Tomlin went from coach of the year to the same spot he was in last year where there's at least some people questioning him.

It's really hard as an outsider to say who's at fault, but it's very similar to the Penguins. There's been new assistant coaches. There's been a ton of roster turnover. New GM. But there's been 1 head coach and we're seeing the same results over and over and over again.

If RW doesn’t fumble in the redzone or throw a pick six who knows what happens against the ravens.
The roster was extremely flawed theres a reason why vegas said we would finish lost. We have a qb Denver is paying for. Khan never got a wr 2 he hunted for since march. They don’t have dl or cb depth
The goal was to win a playoff game this season and see if you could ride RW for 2 years on cheap money with Cam Minka and TJ. They need to pay goodwin or Higgins trade for dk
They aren’t taking about GP the offense knows he is the one way they win a game target him 15 times in the playoff. It was dumb activating him and using him as a decoy

 

[pistolpete11]

If RW doesn’t fumble in the redzone or throw a pick six who knows what happens against the ravens.
The roster was extremely flawed theres a reason why vegas said we would finish lost. We have a qb Denver is paying for. Khan never got a wr 2 he hunted for since march. They don’t have dl or cb depth
The goal was to win a playoff game this season and see if you could ride RW for 2 years on cheap money with Cam Minka and TJ. They need to pay goodwin or Higgins trade for dk
They aren’t taking about GP the offense knows he is the one way they win a game target him 15 times in the playoff. It was dumb activating him and using him as a decoy

right on cue.

This is exactly what the article Andy posted said. Everything good is because of Tomlin. Everything bad is because somebody else failed Tomlin.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

right on cue.

This is exactly what the article Andy posted said. Everything good is because of Tomlin. Everything bad is because somebody else failed Tomlin.

To be fair, the problem is bigger than Tomlin. It's Art.

If Art could go back in a time machine and fire Tomlin and hire Reid (for less) he still wouldn't do it.

Being a "champion" has a different meaning to him than you and me.

********************

Also I heard this

Cowher and Pete Carroll were on nfl channel on xm radio the other day. They mentioned this specifically said you can be true to your team identity and culture but you have to break tendency in the playoffs … you can do both.

 

[cookthebooks]

yup you are exactly right. its just the pull from 8-2 to 10-7 driving me mad

this wasnt really overreacting in hindsight!