OT: The Pittsburgher Thread: 5 and 2 Justin who? Hand the Fields to Wilson

[Buddy Bizarre]

Talent wise? Mahomes, Allen, Jackson. But if you look at the top of the stats right now, it's a who's-who of bust QBs.

I just googled NFL passing leaders and this is what came up.

NFL 2024 Player Stats | passing Stats | NFL.com

Geno Smith was a top 40 draft pick and so were most of the other guys on top.
Brock Purdy is the anomaly from a draft standpoint.

All the players save for Geno Smith were expected to be there. He's the only person who has had a "resurgence" late in his career.

So historically speaking, it's likely JF doesn't amount to anything but a career backup.

 

[Empoleon8771]

A lot of this discussion comes down to what you define a "starter" as. I can easily see Fields become a stopgap starter for some team for the next 2-3 years, whatever team has him as their starter is likely not winning a super bowl but he can absolutely be a starter in the NFL. There are a lot of bad starting QBs in the NFL and it seems like more and more prospects are ending up busts. There will be opportunities for him to start.

Hell, he might even be the Steelers next starter after Wilson retires or leaves in free agency.

 

[Goalie_Bob]

And maybe that is the differential we are looking for, do you think this guy can win a Superbowl and be a main contributor in getting there.

A Level (Can carry a team): Mahomes, Allen, Jackson, Burrow
B Level (Don't get in the way/Will need some help but can certainly do it): Stafford, Prescott, Stroud, Love, Hurts, Herbert, Goff, Purdy, Cousins, Mayfield, Wilson

Everybody else is in the no chance or not enough data (Aka rookies).

Am I way off, anybody you (the group) want to add or remove?

 

[TooManyHumans]

What puts Burrow in the A category? He's had two great WRs his entire career. I've never seen him carry a team on his own.

 

[Empoleon8771]

And maybe that is the differential we are looking for, do you think this guy can win a Superbowl and be a main contributor in getting there.

A Level (Can carry a team): Mahomes, Allen, Jackson, Burrow
B Level (Don't get in the way/Will need some help but can certainly do it): Stafford, Prescott, Stroud, Love, Hurts, Herbert, Goff, Purdy, Cousins, Mayfield, Wilson

Everybody else is in the no chance or not enough data (Aka rookies).

Am I way off, anybody you (the group) want to add or remove?

I personally think Stroud should be in that A level (or he'll definitely be there) but yeah this looks reasonable. I honestly think you can even bump a few guys out of that B level and still have it be pretty accurate.

The reality is that there are really only about 5 QBs in the NFL that can carry you to a Super Bowl and only about 15 QBs you can even compete for a Super Bowl with, and that 15 number is arguably generous. That still leaves 17 other teams needing QBs, and the context of some of those roles would allow Fields to be a starter on some those teams.

 

[Peat]

And maybe that is the differential we are looking for, do you think this guy can win a Superbowl and be a main contributor in getting there.

A Level (Can carry a team): Mahomes, Allen, Jackson, Burrow
B Level (Don't get in the way/Will need some help but can certainly do it): Stafford, Prescott, Stroud, Love, Hurts, Herbert, Goff, Purdy, Cousins, Mayfield, Wilson

Everybody else is in the no chance or not enough data (Aka rookies).

Am I way off, anybody you (the group) want to add or remove?

That's more or less it. Some people express it a different way - the Athletic's QB tiers put an emphasis on being able to handle any passing situation for a guy to be A level, which has disqualified Jackson to date. Some people have a C tier for guys who are good enough to start but not good enough to have a chance, and that's potentially quite useful for discussing Fields. But yeah, more or less it.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

Re: the Garrett Wilson TD last night - that distinction is arbitrary vs the "one foot twice" thing. In fact, I think Pickens getting "both" feet down was more intentional than Wilson making sure to get his shin down. (Also, I'm not 100% sure myself that his shin was down before his knee but whatever.) I don't agree that the fix was in, but bad rules lead to situations where that can be the perception. And the NFL has a lot of them.

I'm not at all clear on how a shin can come down "before" a knee, given general human anatomy.

anywho-

The Entertainment League that has a boat load of money invested in one of the top gambling sites,

 

[Khelandros]

I'm not at all clear on how a shin can come down "before" a knee, given general human anatomy.

anywho-

The Entertainment League that has a boat load of money invested in one of the top gambling sites,

Shin down, knee still up.

 

[ImporterExporter]

It's simple.

ANY part of your body touches in bounds, with control, it's a TD.

I'd love to hear the decision makers reasoning for not making it that f***ing simple a long time ago.

 

[TooManyHumans]

I think part of the shin came down out of bounds eventually. I'm not sure why that doesn't matter when if the toe comes down in bounds and then the heel out of bounds then the foot counts as being out of bounds.

 

[WickedWrister]

Of all the rules that have benefited the offense over the past 20 years, I don't know why the NFL didn't just implement college rules about having 1 foot in vs two. All it really leads to is enabling more spectacular catches at the boundaries of the field. Those are cool, give me more of those.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

View attachment 924942

Shin down, knee still up.

View attachment 924946

@TooManyHumans touched on my response to that. My counter to that is why can a heel/toe be in or out of bounds, yet the player is determined to be OOB in that scenario?

And I'm not sure about that picture, there seems to be a parallax effect going on where it's impossible to truly tell. It looked like to me the shin and knee contact the ground at the same time.

While I know the Pickens TD was technically not a TD, that looked more like a catch than what Wilson did last night. You know the whole pornography standard: I know it when I see it

 

[The Old Master]

I think if Fields takes anything from Wilson this year it’s:

1.) Not every throw needs to be a laser.

2.) Sometimes you just need to give your guys a chance. I don’t necessarily think Wilson is making these crazy anticipatory throws but he’s electing to throw in situations that Fields was turning down for whatever reason.

yeah, those were just bad throws that with a little luck, worked.

 

[WickedWrister]

Some valid criticisms of the red zone offense and Russ looking panicky on the turnover but mostly positive stuff from JT

 

[Honour Over Glory]

I'm fine with Fields progression. I don't think anyone thought he'd get into as many games as he did this season and a Wilson injury helped him with that. The fact that he's so open to learning from Wilson and has the right attitude about this is good with me.

The issues in Fields' game can be worked out and I don't see how he couldn't also have a resurgence as a starter with another team like Geno Smith. I'm gonna stay optimistic about him. Except not that late, like Smith who had his resurgence around 31 after flaming out with the Jets and not doing jack all with the Giants and Chargers.