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OT: The Pittsburgher Thread: 5 and 2 Justin who? Hand the Fields to Wilson

WickedWrister

WickedWrister

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Cool quote from Muth about the Russ/Fields dynamic in the locker room

1728060874543.png
 
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Peat

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WickedWrister said:
Najee isn't as bad as his haters make him out to be, like I remember when people were calling him Trent Richardson, but he grades out as mediocre by pretty much every metric I've seen.

NextGenStats says Najee is only seeing 8+ man boxes on 16% of plays which is definitely on the lower end for RB's. He's the only RB on the team with enough carries to qualify, so I can't compare to CPatt or Warren for example.

Haven't read it yet but Muth wrote an article on the Players Tribune:

www.theplayerstribune.com

Hand the Ball to the Damn Referee, Patrick | By Pat Freiermuth

From the day that I walked into this culture, I knew that it was different. It’s not a cliché. It’s real.
www.theplayerstribune.com www.theplayerstribune.com
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Good read.

And while I'd point out that 7 defenders in the box sending 6 or 7 is just as bad as 8 men but not getting measured by that, I'll absolutely agree that, yeah, Harris is around average. Does some things better, some things worse. Maybe he just doesn't really fit in with what Smith is doing but my guess is he'll have some of his good days later in the season and people will start wondering what it'd take to keep him. If we do, we'll have some games like this again next season and people will be screaming again. It's the great Harris cycle.

But once he's gone, the results will probably be the same for whoever replaces him unless the Steelers change how they do business.

Incidentally, I got curious and looked at previous years. He's never been in the top 10 for rushing against 8+ man boxes, but I notice he was top 10 for ROE% (whatever the hell that is) last year and his Rush Yards Over Expected Per Attempt was nestled right between Jonathan Taylor and Derrick Henry. Which is nice. It's his only good year, and clearly the Steelers were doing something right in the rush game that year as Warren was third behind McCaffrey and Achane, but you can clearly get good years from him. It's just not going to happen like this.
 
WickedWrister

WickedWrister

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Peat said:
Good read.

And while I'd point out that 7 defenders in the box sending 6 or 7 is just as bad as 8 men but not getting measured by that, I'll absolutely agree that, yeah, Harris is around average. Does some things better, some things worse. Maybe he just doesn't really fit in with what Smith is doing but my guess is he'll have some of his good days later in the season and people will start wondering what it'd take to keep him. If we do, we'll have some games like this again next season and people will be screaming again. It's the great Harris cycle.

But once he's gone, the results will probably be the same for whoever replaces him unless the Steelers change how they do business.

Incidentally, I got curious and looked at previous years. He's never been in the top 10 for rushing against 8+ man boxes, but I notice he was top 10 for ROE% (whatever the hell that is) last year and his Rush Yards Over Expected Per Attempt was nestled right between Jonathan Taylor and Derrick Henry. Which is nice. It's his only good year, and clearly the Steelers were doing something right in the rush game that year as Warren was third behind McCaffrey and Achane, but you can clearly get good years from him. It's just not going to happen like this.
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Yeah the running game and the OL really began to gel last year towards the end of the season. Last 2 seasons really. They got more efficient with it as the year went on but it was mostly based on volume.

As far as the scheme fit, I can't pretend to be RB school and say what's good for Najee or not, but I feel like what he's done in years 1-3 isn't drastically different from what Arthur Smith is calling now. Lot of inside/outside zone runs. Cowboys aren't very good against the run and are down their 2 best defenders so this should be his best chance to go off as long as the score doesn't get out of hand.

Way too early to talk about this stuff, but this seems like a better crop of RB's this year in the draft. Ashton Jeanty (seriously go look up his numbers through 4 games lol), Judkins, Ollie Gordon, the UNC RB.
 
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Peat

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WickedWrister said:
Yeah the running game and the OL really began to gel last year towards the end of the season. Last 2 seasons really. They got more efficient with it as the year went on but it was mostly based on volume.

As far as the scheme fit, I can't pretend to be RB school and say what's good for Najee or not, but I feel like what he's done in years 1-3 isn't drastically different from what Arthur Smith is calling now. Lot of inside/outside zone runs. Cowboys aren't very good against the run and are down their 2 best defenders so this should be his best chance to go off as long as the score doesn't get out of hand.

Way too early to talk about this stuff, but this seems like a better crop of RB's this year in the draft. Ashton Jeanty (seriously go look up his numbers through 4 games lol), Judkins, Ollie Gordon, the UNC RB.
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Harris has always got his yards in outside zone and I got to say that it puzzled me that they didn't call outside zone at all vs the Colts per Kozora's breakdown. But there's certainly people asking questions about the lack of Gap runs and the rest of it.

I'm interested to see what happens with the Cowboys because if they can stymie this run game, that's a brutal look.

And finally... yeah, lots of talent. Already seen Steelers fans talking about drafting Jeanty. I'm not huge on drafting RBs early for obvious reasons but if they're going to lean on a guy this heavily, doing it by Day 2 latest seems inevitable.
 
JTG

JTG

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Peat said:
Except his highlight tape is littered with carries to the outside. He's also entirely capable when motioned outside for a screen play if they want to tendency bust that way... or just pass it to someone else entirely. Harris in the back field doesn't have to equal Harris getting the ball, unless the OC's play calling is that predictable. And the argument that the Steelers not re-signing him is the ultimate indictment of his skills carries little water when they also decided not to re-sign Daniels, who is indisputably a good player.

And more importantly, this isn't a different offence because Tomlin's still there at the top handing down dictates on a tough, ball control, no risk game. That's why this team is still among the league leaders for doing stupid shit like running on 2nd and long.

That's why teams know they can key in on Harris carrying between the tackles. Because that's just what the Steelers do. They could run play action or a dropback pass from a heavy set but everybody knows it won't happen. Heck, if anything, it's got worse, which is why Fields and Warren are also sporting by far the worst YBC of their careers.

Also, it doesn't matter how good the line is if opposition teams are free to send extra blitzers and those guys have to be blocked by Van Jefferson. Although I'd argue it's not really drastically better. Dan Moore is still Dan Moore. Broderick Jones is still Broderick Jones, although playing worse. Spencer Anderson and Mason McCormick aren't Seumalo. The one big win is that Frazier is way better than Cole, but one improvement doesn't equal a drastically better line. But again, can only do so much when the WRs and TEs (bar Washington) can't block very well.
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Peat, honestly, I'm not going to debate it. Like I said, I like the guy, I stand up for the guy, but call it scheme, call it coaching, call it whatever you want. He doesn't pass the eye test here. Keep the stats, keep the metrics, keep the breakdowns. If you think he does...great. I disagree at this point. Aside from his first 5ish games, the last 2 from last season, and a few where he definitely worked harder than his stats indicated, he is mediocre.

Barring him really turning things around, I wouldn't even consider resigning him if he had no offers. He just does not work with a Tomlin coached team.

Peat said:
Harris has always got his yards in outside zone and I got to say that it puzzled me that they didn't call outside zone at all vs the Colts per Kozora's breakdown. But there's certainly people asking questions about the lack of Gap runs and the rest of it.

I'm interested to see what happens with the Cowboys because if they can stymie this run game, that's a brutal look.

And finally... yeah, lots of talent. Already seen Steelers fans talking about drafting Jeanty. I'm not huge on drafting RBs early for obvious reasons but if they're going to lean on a guy this heavily, doing it by Day 2 latest seems inevitable.
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If the RB is getting drafted early he has to impact the offense in every single way possible. I'm not against it, but it's kind of pointless if the guy isn't touching the ball 20-30 times a game.
 
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ChaosAgent

ChaosAgent

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Also, I'll be totally open that drafting Najee in the first round (indefensible) and then acting like he was this offensive godsend/leader/star for his first two years jaded me on him.

I didn't feel this way about, say, Benny Snell who is pretty much as good/useful as Najee is.
 

Peat

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JTG said:
If the RB is getting drafted early he has to impact the offense in every single way possible. I'm not against it, but it's kind of pointless if the guy isn't touching the ball 20-30 times a game.
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I don't know that's going to happen. I think Smith had Bijan Robinson at 17 touches a game. That's roughly as many as Harris got last season too. That's on teams without Justin Fields too. I know Tomlin loves a bellcow - and so did Smith when he had Henry - but I think without that sort of HoF bound talent, they're going to follow the rest of the NFL in splitting the carries.

I'd still expect them to spend a decent amount of draft capital or free agency money on that RB1 who gets 17 touches though because they're really important touches for how this team wants to operate. I'm not saying they should but it feels like the Pittsburgh move.
 
JTG

JTG

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I wouldn't pull Fields for anything. He's the future. The guys are rallied behind him. As far as I'm concerned, Russ is done here barring injury to Fields.

Dan Moore currently grading out as 16th best LT.

Peat said:
I don't know that's going to happen. I think Smith had Bijan Robinson at 17 touches a game. That's roughly as many as Harris got last season too. That's on teams without Justin Fields too. I know Tomlin loves a bellcow - and so did Smith when he had Henry - but I think without that sort of HoF bound talent, they're going to follow the rest of the NFL in splitting the carries.

I'd still expect them to spend a decent amount of draft capital or free agency money on that RB1 who gets 17 touches though because they're really important touches for how this team wants to operate. I'm not saying they should but it feels like the Pittsburgh move.
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Boise St on at 7 tonight...
 
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Rossi Rat

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Local colleges are off to a nice start. PSU unsurprisingly will be 5-0 heading into the coliseum next week - I do NOT envy Lincoln Riley for having to prepare against this PSU team. Loaded with talent. UCLA should get mercy ruled.

I’ll even throw you Pitters a bone, 4-0 is 4-0. UNC owns them though, so I could see things taking a turn starting today but I even if they can muster just another 2 or 3 wins that’s much better than what they did last year.
 
bigdaddyk88

bigdaddyk88

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Unc has quit the coach wants to retire they gave up 70 and blew a 20 point lead the last few weeks
 

xlm34

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Empoleon8771 said:
https://x.com/i/web/status/1842584397083722070

I still think Adams forces his way to the Jets but it's encouraging that the Steelers are still connected to him.
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The two interesting things from her article I thought:

1.) Adams is concerned that Rodgers may not stick around in NY beyond this year and wouldn’t want to be there without him.

2.) She had George Pickens as a name to keep an eye on for WRs that could be moved. Which I hope is just dumb speculation on her part and not anything she’s actually hearing
 
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Peat

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xlm34 said:
The two interesting things from her article I thought:

1.) Adams is concerned that Rodgers may not stick around in NY beyond this year and wouldn’t want to be there without him.

2.) She had George Pickens as a name to keep an eye on for WRs that could be moved. Which I hope is just dumb speculation on her part and not anything she’s actually hearing
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I saw that and scratched my head. I don't think I'm ever going to entirely rule out the possibility that the Steelers wouldn't mind moving Pickens as long as they're sniffing around WR1 types while running an offence where it'd be hard to keep both of them happy. But doing it mid-season would be the most incredibly weird timing.

I'm not going to rule out that she legit heard something solely because it sounds stupid as hell but I'm not gonna think about this possibility very much unless other people start legit running with it.
 
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bigdaddyk88

bigdaddyk88

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xlm34 said:
The two interesting things from her article I thought:

1.) Adams is concerned that Rodgers may not stick around in NY beyond this year and wouldn’t want to be there without him.

2.) She had George Pickens as a name to keep an eye on for WRs that could be moved. Which I hope is just dumb speculation on her part and not anything she’s actually hearing
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Dulac said they were planning on paying Pickens and Aiyuk. They wouldn’t trade Pickens for Aiyuk because they would still be in the same position as they are now with 1 real Wr
 
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