OT: The Pittsburgher Thread: 5 and 2 Justin who? Hand the Fields to Wilson

[bigdaddyk88]

You're right- not enough targets to go around
But there are enough SNAPS to be distributed. It's criminal VJ has way more snaps than Pickens. It's bordering on insanity.

Through 3 weeks Pickens lead the offense in snaps next was Muth outside of Fields now we can definitely move off of the 38 snaps a game Jefferson is getting

 

[xlm34]

There is literally a rookie WR who can bring some juice/intensity on the sideline, yet they don't bring him in. No one has asked this question: what does Van Jefferson do well?

I'm not saying Roman is any panacea but this offense needs ANYTHING it can get

Yeah I can agree with this. I don’t have high hopes for Wilson at all this year — I think he’ll struggle a fair amount if he has to play on the outside. But I know Jefferson gives them nothing as a receiver or blocker.

 

[Peat]

It's really weird to me that Smith gives Jefferson so many snaps and gets so little out of him.

I'd also add that as far as I can see, the offence's biggest issues is that they are very inconsistent and make a lot of dumb mistakes. There's plenty I disagree with beyond that but I think that's the biggest issue. Right or wrong, I'm not surprised they're not excited at getting Roman Wilson out there when that's the case.

 

[MrBrightside]

It's not really here nor there, but man people really have rose-colored glasses when discussing Cowher. They missed the playoffs completely 5 of his last 9 years and had 3 losing seasons and another .500 season in that span. Many of the same criticisms that people levy at Tomlin were equally true of Cowher - dude was conservative to a fault and the dude churned coordinators almost annually. There is so much less difference between them than what people like to suggest.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

Through 3 weeks Pickens lead the offense in snaps next was Muth outside of Fields now we can definitely move off of the 38 snaps a game Jefferson is getting

Did you factor in VJ barely playing the previous week due to his eye injury?
Prior to that, VJ was getting way more snaps on a per game basis by a fair margin- look it up. Pickens and VJ were equal vs the Colts and that was due to us passing a ton in the 2nd half.

Context is everything

 

[T1K]

Pickens and Van Jeff played the same amount of snaps yesterday - 86%. I don’t think we need to discuss the “Pickens isn’t getting enough snaps” thing anymore

NFL Snap Count Summary by Team

Display Snap Counts by Team

www.footballguys.com

 

[WickedWrister]

As a team the Steelers are 29th in Rush EPA, 10th in Dropback EPA

Weeks 1-4 QB Efficiency

Fields QB11 using these combined metrics

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

It's not really here nor there, but man people really have rose-colored glasses when discussing Cowher. They missed the playoffs completely 5 of his last 9 years and had 3 losing seasons and another .500 season in that span. Many of the same criticisms that people levy at Tomlin were equally true of Cowher - dude was conservative to a fault and the dude churned coordinators almost annually. There is so much less difference between them than what people like to suggest.

Lots of differences and I'll try to address your post 1 by 1

- Yes Cowher had losing seasons and oftentimes underperformed in the playoffs. But he also had extremely mediocre QBs leading his teams. The QB's he lost to in the playoffs were fairly accomplished and mostly better than what he had on his own team.
- Note Cowher won tremendously as soon as he got Ben. His rookie year he went like 15-1. Next year the SB. Believe Ben Kissed a Cadillac in 2006 so that was a wash. So in the 3 years he had Ben he won a SB and made it to the Championship game. Tomlin had Ben for 3x as much and got essentially the same results from an aggregate standpoint.
- Cowher did have turnover on his staff, but that was due to many teams wanting to poach. That has literally never happened under Tomlin. THere's 1 thing to have turnover when your underlings want to move on for better opportunity. It's quite another to churn them over due to flat out incompetence.

 

[Colonel Mustard]

Fields had some really nice connections yesterday, and the designed runs later in the game from him were great. Would love to see that stuff earlier in the game.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

Pickens and Van Jeff played the same amount of snaps yesterday - 86%. I don’t think we need to discuss the “Pickens isn’t getting enough snaps” thing anymore

NFL Snap Count Summary by Team

Display Snap Counts by Team

www.footballguys.com

Did you see my post just before yours?
Do you really believe if we aren't down by 3 scores that Pickens isn't off the field like we typically do/run heavy?

In the normal offense, VJ is on the field more than Pickens. That's a fact.

 

[WickedWrister]

I mean I agree that Van Jefferson is getting too much work relative to his talent but his usage so far seems independent of Pickens.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Didn't Van Jefferson only get 1 target yesterday? He may be playing in a lot of snaps but he's not an important part of the offense.

 

[Ryder71]

Didn't Van Jefferson only get 1 target yesterday? He may be playing in a lot of snaps but he's not an important part of the offense.

Cronyism

 

[T1K]

Did you see my post just before yours?
Do you really believe if we aren't down by 3 scores that Pickens isn't off the field like we typically do/run heavy?

In the normal offense, VJ is on the field more than Pickens. That's a fact.

I’m not gonna get worked up about something that is seemingly no longer relevant. Tyreek Hill has been roughly a 70% snap share guy since joining the Dolphins. Jamarr Chase was only 79% in week 4… weird stuff happens. Pickens snap counts have been healthy as of late.

 

[WickedWrister]

I haven't looked too closely at the different personnel groupings since week 1 but my guess is:

11 personnel - Pickens, Jefferson, Austin
12 personnel - Pickens and Jefferson
13 personnel - Scotty Miller

Obviously some mixing and matching when guys get injured or need a breather, but I haven't noticed any situations where VJ is affecting Pickens usage.

 

[xlm34]

Didn't Van Jefferson only get 1 target yesterday? He may be playing in a lot of snaps but he's not an important part of the offense.

And I think that’s a big part of the problem for the offense (and a lot of other Arthur Smith offenses). You can’t play 80% of snaps and be a total non factor in any part of the game. You can live with a guy that’s a great blocker but not a great receiver or vice versa, but when you’re bad at both that’s a guy the defense can basically just ignore.

 

[Peat]

I mean I agree that Van Jefferson is getting too much work relative to his talent but his usage so far seems independent of Pickens.

Yeah. The question with Jefferson is should he be getting those snaps ahead of Austin and Miller. The question with Pickens is if they shouldn't be finding more opportunities to get him on the field and with the ball.

Didn't Van Jefferson only get 1 target yesterday? He may be playing in a lot of snaps but he's not an important part of the offense.

3. 2 catches for 21 yards.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

I’m not gonna get worked up about something that is seemingly no longer relevant. Tyreek Hill has been roughly a 70% snap share guy since joining the Dolphins. Jamarr Chase was only 79% in week 4… weird stuff happens. Pickens snap counts have been healthy as of late.

First, I'm not getting worked up. I'm repeating it until someone realizes it's a damn problem. Much like I did with Harris after his rookie year as well as Bush. People need to recognize poor play and poor coaching.

And I'm not sure these are apt comparisons.
Tyrek Hill is probably a guy who needs his snaps managed since he's a smaller/quick twitch dude. He's been in the league awhile and they know what he can/can't handle.

And I don't think Chase is a relevant comparison since they have a dude on the other side of the ball who is pretty darn good in Higgins.

If Pickens was getting snaps in place of Tee Higgins you wouldn't hear me complaining.
Fact is if VJ is on the field he is no threat to a defense. This was discussed prior to the Colts game (unsure if it was you), but I love it when Pickens is on the sideline if I'm a DC. He's the only dude who can beat you on the Steelers. Why Tomlin/Smith voluntarily park their threat is moronic.

 

[JTG]

It's crazy to me that Cowher is in the hall and Shottenheimer is not.

Mike Tomlin and Bill Cowher owe basically all of the accolades that made them HOF coaches to Dick LeBeau. Without his defenses they do not win anything. They both are no better than Marvin Lewis with way better situations.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

It's crazy to me that Cowher is in the hall and Shottenheimer is not.

Mike Tomlin and Bill Cowher owe basically all of the accolades that made them HOF coaches to Dick LeBeau. Without his defenses they do not win anything. They both are no better than Marvin Lewis with way better situations.

Marty S never won nor made it to a SB has a HC (please correct me if I'm wrong). SB's are huge differentiators with the HOF.

To your 2nd paragraph, eh I'm torn on that. Dick was a significant factor but so was Ben R in his prime.

 

[Coastal Kev]

It's crazy to me that Cowher is in the hall and Shottenheimer is not.

Mike Tomlin and Bill Cowher owe basically all of the accolades that made them HOF coaches to Dick LeBeau. Without his defenses they do not win anything. They both are no better than Marvin Lewis with way better situations.

Wrong. Cowher designed that Defense, he stated it many times when he lost his DC. Lebeau might have added to it, but it was Cowher's defense.

 

[Ryder71]

Wrong. Cowher designed that Defense, he stated it many times when he lost his DC. Lebeau might have added to it, but it was Cowher's defense.

I'd definitely give Cowher the leg up over Tomlin.

 

[T1K]

First, I'm not getting worked up. I'm repeating it until someone realizes it's a damn problem. Much like I did with Harris after his rookie year as well as Bush. People need to recognize poor play and poor coaching.

And I'm not sure these are apt comparisons.
Tyrek Hill is probably a guy who needs his snaps managed since he's a smaller/quick twitch dude. He's been in the league awhile and they know what he can/can't handle.

And I don't think Chase is a relevant comparison since they have a dude on the other side of the ball who is pretty darn good in Higgins.

If Pickens was getting snaps in place of Tee Higgins you wouldn't hear me complaining.
Fact is if VJ is on the field he is no threat to a defense. This was discussed prior to the Colts game (unsure if it was you), but I love it when Pickens is on the sideline if I'm a DC. He's the only dude who can beat you on the Steelers. Why Tomlin/Smith voluntarily park their threat is moronic.

86% is just a weird snap count to get upset about. Pickens snap counts have been above 70% every week since week 1, which is in line with other elite WRs as I’ve pointed out. I agree Van Jeff is trash, but he’s not taking anything away from Pickens.

 

[Peat]

Chase has 89% of the snaps this season. Pickens has 76%. Using one week to suggest that Pickens is in line with other elite WRs is basically disingenuous.

Elite WRs almost always average over 80% and many of them are closer to 90%.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

Pickens snaps in line with waddle and hill Aiyuk Olave Evans