OT: The Pittsburgher Thread: 5 and 2 Justin who? Hand the Fields to Wilson

[JTG]

The one thing I liked that Orlovsky pointed out was that his arm strength can make up for when his anticipation wasn’t perfect (and let’s be real it probably never will be consistently amazing). Like the throw to Austin could have been earlier but it doesn’t matter as much when you can throw it on a rope.

The mental side is probably the most important, but you just can’t ignore physical traits with a QB.



I think Seumalo replacing Anderson will be huge for the offense. Anderson’s been a liability through 3 games.

I found that Austin play as a big breakthrough. It was a play that has been there and he hasn't hit it. He finally got it. I think things like that is why Artie is so confident that this offense is about ready to blow the lid off. Fields doesn't quite know what he's capable of, I think.

The last 2 years I have been working on trying to get more consistent in golf, and the change in mindset when you do something you didn't think you were capable of doing, and then repeating it, is almost addictive.

I would not be shocked if Fields is living with eyes wide open right now and he is amazed at how things are going.

 

[JTG]

Here's another video of the drop from Freiermuth from another angle, Muth simply has to catch that ball:

New big contract - that drop is totally inexcusable. I legit think he was just surprised it got through because I don't think any QB he has ever played with at the pro level has been able to do that lol.

 

[xlm34]

I found that Austin play as a big breakthrough. It was a play that has been there and he hasn't hit it. He finally got it. I think things like that is why Artie is so confident that this offense is about ready to blow the lid off. Fields doesn't quite know what he's capable of, I think.

The last 2 years I have been working on trying to get more consistent in golf, and the change in mindset when you do something you didn't think you were capable of doing, and then repeating it, is almost addictive.

I would not be shocked if Fields is living with eyes wide open right now and he is amazed at how things are going.

I picked up golf two years ago so I completely get that feeling

But yeah, it’s still early but something about this environment seems to be working for Fields. And watching what’s going on with the Bears so far and seeing what a Getsy offense looks like in Vegas kind of reinforces that the Bears while Fields was there were a shitshow.

 

[JTG]

I picked up golf two years ago so I completely get that feeling

But yeah, it’s still early but something about this environment seems to be working for Fields. And watching what’s going on with the Bears so far and seeing what a Getsy offense looks like in Vegas kind of reinforces that the Bears while Fields was there were a shitshow.

Look at Chicago now. For all of those people saying that Fields was coming from a good situation. Strong disagree there.

I am beginning to believe Fields was not the problem and his handling and the situation was. I'll also give Russ some props. He seems to be engaged with Fields and to be big bro'ing him. Russ is corny as f***, but he's a talented dude who played this game at what I would consider an elite level for a long time. Fields has all the talent in the world, but having Wilson help him may be the greatest thing that has ever happened to his career.

 

[JTG]

I picked up golf two years ago so I completely get that feeling

But yeah, it’s still early but something about this environment seems to be working for Fields. And watching what’s going on with the Bears so far and seeing what a Getsy offense looks like in Vegas kind of reinforces that the Bears while Fields was there were a shitshow.

And Sergio Garcia spoke about "pulling down on a bell" in the downswing. Total lightbulb moment. I share that with all fellow golfers because it was such a huge feel for me.

 

[Peat]

I don't get anyone who wouldn't look at Fields and think he's improving right tbh.

But by the same token, I think it's a tad disingenuous to suggest that the three games so far aren't games that based on Tomlin's recent history, you couldn't look at and go "the Steelers defence has this". It's certainly how the first two turned out and I think even the Chargers game, where the offence did the most, could have turned out differently without the defence clamping it down whent he offence wobbled.

And yeah, the Falcons and Chargers aren't bums. But getting the Falcons on the first game of the year where things aren't sorted out, and getting the Chargers with Herbert hampered, makes a difference.

Both things can be true. I think both things are true. And they're linked. I've accused the defence of being a helicopter parent, preventing the offence from taking the necessary risks needed to grow up, but right now I think maybe it's doing a great job of allowing Fields to dump the heroball and focus on making his reads better.

I'm also going to hazard now that the first time Fields needs to chase a game for us will be ugly. I mean, hell, first tight game, first "you can't do that mate" moment. He was a nervy wee scrote in that first game against Atlanta before he settled down. But... well, burn that bridge when we get there.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I don't get anyone who wouldn't look at Fields and think he's improving right tbh.

But by the same token, I think it's a tad disingenuous to suggest that the three games so far aren't games that based on Tomlin's recent history, you couldn't look at and go "the Steelers defence has this". It's certainly how the first two turned out and I think even the Chargers game, where the offence did the most, could have turned out differently without the defence clamping it down whent he offence wobbled.

And yeah, the Falcons and Chargers aren't bums. But getting the Falcons on the first game of the year where things aren't sorted out, and getting the Chargers with Herbert hampered, makes a difference.

Both things can be true. I think both things are true. And they're linked. I've accused the defence of being a helicopter parent, preventing the offence from taking the necessary risks needed to grow up, but right now I think maybe it's doing a great job of allowing Fields to dump the heroball and focus on making his reads better.

I'm also going to hazard now that the first time Fields needs to chase a game for us will be ugly. I mean, hell, first tight game, first "you can't do that mate" moment. He was a nervy wee scrote in that first game against Atlanta before he settled down. But... well, burn that bridge when we get there.

I think it's valid that the defense is making his job easier, hell they haven't even given up more than 10 points in a game so far. That being said, the running game being completely inefficient (up until the 4th quarter against the Chargers) was also putting more pressure on him to make the offense work. And looking at the games, especially against the Chargers in the first half, I think Fields has done a strong job at stepping up and taking over when he has needed to.

 

[Power Surge]

I don't get anyone who wouldn't look at Fields and think he's improving right tbh.

But by the same token, I think it's a tad disingenuous to suggest that the three games so far aren't games that based on Tomlin's recent history, you couldn't look at and go "the Steelers defence has this". It's certainly how the first two turned out and I think even the Chargers game, where the offence did the most, could have turned out differently without the defence clamping it down whent he offence wobbled.

And yeah, the Falcons and Chargers aren't bums. But getting the Falcons on the first game of the year where things aren't sorted out, and getting the Chargers with Herbert hampered, makes a difference.

Both things can be true. I think both things are true. And they're linked. I've accused the defence of being a helicopter parent, preventing the offence from taking the necessary risks needed to grow up, but right now I think maybe it's doing a great job of allowing Fields to dump the heroball and focus on making his reads better.

I'm also going to hazard now that the first time Fields needs to chase a game for us will be ugly. I mean, hell, first tight game, first "you can't do that mate" moment. He was a nervy wee scrote in that first game against Atlanta before he settled down. But... well, burn that bridge when we get there.

Peat knows the game. This is a great post.

None of this Foooosball stuff Empoleon8771 and kids are talking about these days.

 

[Peat]

I think it's valid that the defense is making his job easier, hell they haven't even given up more than 10 points in a game so far. That being said, the running game being completely inefficient (up until the 4th quarter against the Chargers) was also putting more pressure on him to make the offense work. And looking at the games, especially against the Chargers in the first half, I think Fields has done a strong job at stepping up and taking over when he has needed to.

Fields stepping up and keeping the trains running when the running game was asleep at the wheel is a mahossive change in how I feel about him. That for me is a big part of what separates QBs who are there to make up the numbers and QBs you can do something with. The 4th quarter dagger to Austin to put the game to sleep was really nice too.

But, by and large, I did not think he had to stand up and be counted all that often in the first two games. That first half vs the Chargers is pretty much the only time where I think it's rested squarely on Justin and nobody but Justin for play after play after play with it potentially getting ugly if he doesn't... and even then, it's potentially very different if the defence doesn't keep Herbert in check and the pressure grows.

edit: I guess you could point at that giant throw to get a field goal at the end of the first half vs the Falcons. Only way that FG is happening if Fields does something special. But the condition of the game meant, imo, that missing it was no big deal.

I also think that second half vs the Broncos where the run game was also getting stuffed was a stand up moment and he didn't take it. And, well, didn't have to. And I think maybe Smith called the game knowing that, so shrug and move on. But it is part of my thinking that he hasn't been that guy so far, and the whole point about the games being winnable independent of QB has been true in 2/3 at least.

 

[NewAgeOutlaw]

I don't think there is any question the Steelers will struggle mightily when they actually have to score points to win a game. The line is bad, the coaching staff is obsessed with "establishing the run" whether it is working or not, and their weapons on offense are lacking to put it kindly.

The defense is great, but I don't think this level of dominance is sustainable especially when 3 key players are vets who play a very smash-mouth brand of football and are liable to get injured regularly.

The 2nd half was great to see yesterday but the first half looked like Canada's offense with a better qb running the show. Even with the 2nd half you could argue more should be done when the opposition had negative offensive yards in the 2nd half.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

I wonder if some of the run blocking is on the OL coach at a certain point.

Obviously we are an easy team to stack the box and expect heavy dose of run plays, but at some point, it’s been a lot of the same issues under Meyer.

Also how about me praising Anderson after the first game and him shitting the bed the next two contests?

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

Who is the poster here that repeatedly assured us that Fields would be a disaster? He may not turn out to be the answer but he's been doing what he needs to do to win. A huge improvement from last year.

He must be miserable seeing Fields succeed.

I don't think I used the word disaster, but I thought he'd only be a smidge better than KP. So I guess I was kind of wrong.

I'm cautiously optimistic about JF going forward. I've got my reservations. But if they make more of a concerted effort to throw MOF, I think he can be a very effective player...Jalen Hurts tier.

 

[Power Surge]

I don't think I used the word disaster, but I thought he'd only be a smidge better than KP. So I guess I was kind of wrong.

I'm cautiously optimistic about JF going forward. I've got my reservations. But if they make more of a concerted effort to throw MOF, I think he can be a very effective player...Jalen Hurts tier.

I dont want to say stop feeding the trolls, because why would you want to starve a living thing?

It's kinda like hitting a guy with glasses.

 

[TooManyHumans]

I thought Fields would be a turnover machine here like he was in Chicago. I am very pleased with what I have seen from him so far but he still has far to go to prove he is the answer at QB. Great early returns though and he seems to be building to something better.

 

[WickedWrister]

I don't get anyone who wouldn't look at Fields and think he's improving right tbh.

But by the same token, I think it's a tad disingenuous to suggest that the three games so far aren't games that based on Tomlin's recent history, you couldn't look at and go "the Steelers defence has this". It's certainly how the first two turned out and I think even the Chargers game, where the offence did the most, could have turned out differently without the defence clamping it down whent he offence wobbled.

And yeah, the Falcons and Chargers aren't bums. But getting the Falcons on the first game of the year where things aren't sorted out, and getting the Chargers with Herbert hampered, makes a difference.

Both things can be true. I think both things are true. And they're linked. I've accused the defence of being a helicopter parent, preventing the offence from taking the necessary risks needed to grow up, but right now I think maybe it's doing a great job of allowing Fields to dump the heroball and focus on making his reads better.

I'm also going to hazard now that the first time Fields needs to chase a game for us will be ugly. I mean, hell, first tight game, first "you can't do that mate" moment. He was a nervy wee scrote in that first game against Atlanta before he settled down. But... well, burn that bridge when we get there.

This is a classic @Peat post lol. One sentence acknowledging the positive, followed by four paragraphs explaining why we should pump the brakes. You're not wrong, you just have a very pragmatic and sobering view of things.

There's no question the defense has led the way and will continue to be the primary reason we win or lose games this year. That's just how this team is currently constructed.

What does inspire a little bit of hope in Fields right now is that this felt like the first game he was asked to do more than just not lose the game, and he responded well. But in terms of statistical improvements, the short + intermediate accuracy and sack prevention are drastically better through 3 games.

 

[Factorial]

I don't think I used the word disaster, but I thought he'd only be a smidge better than KP. So I guess I was kind of wrong.

I'm cautiously optimistic about JF going forward. I've got my reservations. But if they make more of a concerted effort to throw MOF, I think he can be a very effective player...Jalen Hurts tier.

It wasn't you. That clown has me blocked I now see.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Fields stepping up and keeping the trains running when the running game was asleep at the wheel is a mahossive change in how I feel about him. That for me is a big part of what separates QBs who are there to make up the numbers and QBs you can do something with. The 4th quarter dagger to Austin to put the game to sleep was really nice too.

But, by and large, I did not think he had to stand up and be counted all that often in the first two games. That first half vs the Chargers is pretty much the only time where I think it's rested squarely on Justin and nobody but Justin for play after play after play with it potentially getting ugly if he doesn't... and even then, it's potentially very different if the defence doesn't keep Herbert in check and the pressure grows.

edit: I guess you could point at that giant throw to get a field goal at the end of the first half vs the Falcons. Only way that FG is happening if Fields does something special. But the condition of the game meant, imo, that missing it was no big deal.

I also think that second half vs the Broncos where the run game was also getting stuffed was a stand up moment and he didn't take it. And, well, didn't have to. And I think maybe Smith called the game knowing that, so shrug and move on. But it is part of my thinking that he hasn't been that guy so far, and the whole point about the games being winnable independent of QB has been true in 2/3 at least.

I think that's true, ultimately we won't be able to judge how Fields does until he's put in those kind of situations. That's why I've been advocating for him to continue to start (even before the Chargers game), we won't be able to say he can't handle that role until he's actually put in that role.

I was already at that point because I view Wilson to be too old to be a long-term fit, but I think the Chargers game solidified that the QB1 job should be Fields' until he plays himself out of it. That game against the Chargers took it from "he hasn't done anything to lose the QB1 spot" to "he has earned the QB1 spot". Who knows how good of a QB1 he'll be once the defense isn't limiting the other team to 10 points a game, but we won't know how he handles that unless they let him try.

I am curious where this leaves Wilson though, he may put on a good face but I absolutely think he'll be fuming if he's relegated to backup for the entire year. It's only a 1 year deal so who really cares, but I hope he doesn't make a big shitshow about it. He had to have known this was a possibility when they brought in another guy who was a QB1 for the past few years.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

I don't get anyone who wouldn't look at Fields and think he's improving right tbh.

But by the same token, I think it's a tad disingenuous to suggest that the three games so far aren't games that based on Tomlin's recent history, you couldn't look at and go "the Steelers defence has this". It's certainly how the first two turned out and I think even the Chargers game, where the offence did the most, could have turned out differently without the defence clamping it down whent he offence wobbled.

And yeah, the Falcons and Chargers aren't bums. But getting the Falcons on the first game of the year where things aren't sorted out, and getting the Chargers with Herbert hampered, makes a difference.

Both things can be true. I think both things are true. And they're linked. I've accused the defence of being a helicopter parent, preventing the offence from taking the necessary risks needed to grow up, but right now I think maybe it's doing a great job of allowing Fields to dump the heroball and focus on making his reads better.

I'm also going to hazard now that the first time Fields needs to chase a game for us will be ugly. I mean, hell, first tight game, first "you can't do that mate" moment. He was a nervy wee scrote in that first game against Atlanta before he settled down. But... well, burn that bridge when we get there.

I think you can say that the Chargers game, even with the Herbert injury, was the best execution of the type of win we’ve been led to believe Tomlin wants this season. One of the best overall since Ben retired (maybe could run the ball better).

And all 3 wins have been in that way.

I think the concern would be that it’s unclear (at best) if that makes us any closer to winning other type of games, being competitive in all circumstances, and truly contending.

 

[Coastal Kev]

Since the dawn of fantasy football and analytics, stats have become the be all, end all with football analysis. Well based off of stats last season, Miami looked like the best team in the AFC heading into November. Their coach is the perfect coach for the stat geek generation. But look at his team, look at how it is constructed and look how their weaknesses get exposed year after year after year.

I'm old school, I base 90% of my reaction off of my eye test; What those eyes are telling me is the following:

Arthur Smith knows how to coach offense, something we haven't had since Hayley.
The Defense has incredible depth for the first time in a long time. (OLB is a question, but they like Leal as an option)
The Offense is progressing each week.
Justin Fields is a pinpoint accurate thrower. I didn't know that about him, but the dude has top tier accuracy. Combined with his freak athletic ability, he could be a top qb soon.
This team has a lot of room for growth and haven't yet played their best ball.

 

[Peat]

Looks like QB school has dropped Fields vs Chargers.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Looks like QB school has dropped Fields vs Chargers.

Only about 3 minutes in, but the first play talked about was that really weird 3rd down play in the first drive. That was 10000% a missed block by Anderson that caused that play to get blown up. I thought that was on Jones but the play design was clearly set up for Anderson to be blocking that guy.

Not sure what the playcall was, but I've seen comments about how bad Anderson was and I think that play is a great example of it.

 

[Pengwins]

Herbig needs more playing time

 

[Empoleon8771]

The QB Coach videos are so descriptive and good, he's doing a terrific job at explaining things here.

Another few notes that he made:

1. In his opinion, that drop Pickens had was both bad route running by Pickens and also a drop by Pickens. Pickens was "lollygagging" off the line and he made it far too easy for the CB to stick with him as he cut towards the middle.
2. He also mentioned that he felt the Steelers WRs had poor attention to detail, with mentioning that completion to Miller (one where the Chargers guy missed the tackle) had both WRs on that side of the field a good 2 yards before the 1st down marker on their routes. If not for the missed tackle, that's likely a 2 yard pass that ends up a 4th and 2.
3. The QB coach says some iteration of "this is a bizarre play call" or "I have no clue what they're running" about once every 2 minutes

He was very complementary of Fields' performance but also taking some shots at the WRs and play designs.

 

[Peat]

Only about 3 minutes in, but the first play talked about was that really weird 3rd down play in the first drive. That was 10000% a missed block by Anderson that caused that play to get blown up. I thought that was on Jones but the play design was clearly set up for Anderson to be blocking that guy.

Not sure what the playcall was, but I've seen comments about how bad Anderson was and I think that play is a great example of it.

Maybe part of what got Anderson yanked for McCormick?

 

[Empoleon8771]

Maybe part of what got Anderson yanked for McCormick?

Yeah that's probably it, and it's not surprising that the run game got way better after the change too.

I think these comments from the QB school are very complementary of Fields, but he is still throwing out criticism here and there. Remember that Freiermuth drop? He actually think that it was a poor decision by Fields to throw that ball, not only passing up on the outside routes (which were more open) but also waiting until Freiermuth hit the "second window". It was a really dangerous ball that he placed great, but he probably shouldn't be making that throw.

By "second window", I mean "after he passes the ILB" rather than "before he passes the ILB".

Yeah he's eviscerating the Steelers WRs in this video. Accuses Pickens of running the wrong route on the 3rd and 5 that led up to that Boswell missed field goal now. He's basing that on Fields being ready to throw and targeting that outside slant route, but no one is there.