OT: The Pittsburgher Thread: 5 and 2 Justin who? Hand the Fields to Wilson

[WickedWrister]

Week 8 QB efficiency

Low EPA but high CPOE week for Russ

 

[WickedWrister]

Seasonal (setting the filter to the minimum amount of plays Russ has)

Russ QB7

 

[pistolpete11]

I talked about this last night, but I do think this team will need to make a decision on either going with Wilson or Fields as the starter beyond this year. I do not think it's possible/reasonable to keep both, I think you either keep Wilson and draft a successor high in the draft or you keep Fields and build the offense around him. And with how Wilson has played, I think the first option is becoming more and more the obvious option to pursue.

It stinks because I really liked what I saw out of Fields and think there is real room for growth there, but Wilson gives them the best chance to win now and I think Fields is too old to sit as a backup for 2-3 years. I'd much rather draft a 20/21 year old QB and have him sit and learn behind Wilson over having a soon to be 26 year old Fields sitting in that role. Fields definitely earned himself at minimum a Minshew type of contract/opportunity with his play this year, I hope he cashes in on that.

I don't know the money side of it and if Fields gets a starting job somewhere...it is what it is, but I wouldn't let Fields age be the reason to not bring both back.

This team seems positioned to actually be competitive over the next few seasons. Take full advantage of that. Having a good backup could save the season (like it did to start this season) and use all the draft capital you can to strengthen the rest of the team.

When Wilson retires or moves on, Fields can take over the starting role whether that is in a full time capacity or as a bridge QB.

 

[Gold Diamond]

Our QB room is a billion times better this year:

Last year we had: Pickett, Trubisky, Rudolph
This year: Wilson, Fields, Allen

All 3 of our qb's last year are back-ups this year.

 

[Peat]

Also hands up everyone who had Calvin Austin as our second highest TD scorer at this point in the season?

 

[Empoleon8771]

It's just too early. There's only a two game sample for Wilson and still half a season to play. Wilson could ascend and be a must keep, or fizzle out and be a one and done, or even get injured again and let Fields take the spot. Wilson has put his best foot forward as the short term future but this decision is so far down the line.

Also, without having counted out the QB hungry teams and the QBs available (not that you can really do that until you figure out which QBs are getting drafted), it wouldn't be utterly surprising to me if Fields once again missed out on a starting spot and was looking for a one year back-up deal somewhere before trying again and chose the Steelers. I'm not betting heavily on that idea but it wouldn't be the first time I've seen something like that happen, with Fields not being wanted as a starting QB last summer being an obvious example.

I wouldn't bet on this personally. In Fields' 6 games, he put up a 10-4 TD to turnover ratio and had a passer rating above 90. I would be very surprised for him to not get a chance to be a starter somewhere, even as a bridge guy. He absolutely performed well enough to get the opportunity, even if that opportunity is only a Minshew type of opportunity.

Granted Minshew played in more games than Fields last year, but Fields' numbers are pretty much better across the chart. The one big advantage that Minshew had was that he got sacked way less, but the Colts also have a far better OL than the Steelers.

Beyond that, it's also worth asking if it's worth paying a backup QB a notable amount of money unless Wilson is signing for another cheap deal. If you're paying Wilson $25 million a year, I'm not sure I want to pay Fields $10+ million a year to be his backup. Especially when you can draft a QB in the 2nd round and have their cap hit only be about $2 million.

 

[WickedWrister]

I wouldn't bet on this personally. In Fields' 6 games, he put up a 10-4 TD to turnover ratio and had a passer rating above 90. I would be very surprised for him to not get a chance to be a starter somewhere, even as a bridge guy. He absolutely performed well enough to get the opportunity, even if that opportunity is only a Minshew type of opportunity.

Granted Minshew played in more games than Fields last year, but Fields' numbers are pretty much better across the chart. The one big advantage that Minshew had was that he got sacked way less, but the Colts also have a far better OL than the Steelers.

Beyond that, it's also worth asking if it's worth paying a backup QB a notable amount of money unless Wilson is signing for another cheap deal. If you're paying Wilson $25 million a year, I'm not sure I want to pay Fields $10+ million a year to be his backup. Especially when you can draft a QB in the 2nd round and have their cap hit only be about $2 million.

Only had 2 turnovers I believe

 

[Empoleon8771]

Only had 2 turnovers I believe

I was looking on PFR and they had him listed as 1 interception and 3 fumbles lost (6 total fumbles, 3 fumbles recovered).

 

[WickedWrister]

I was looking on PFR and they had him listed as 1 interception and 3 fumbles lost (6 total fumbles, 3 fumbles recovered).

That's just the fumbles he's directly recovered. He has 6 fumbles, 5 of which the Steelers have recovered. So just the 1 INT + lost fumble.

Russ has stated he wants to play until he's 40. I'm still pretty skeptical of a late career resurgence at the age of 35 (36 in November) but if he can keep playing at this level, we'll have no choice but to bring him back.

 

[TooManyHumans]

The way the offense has looked under Wilson makes me feel less good about Fields as a potential starter going forward.

 

[WickedWrister]

I really have no clue how to value a Fields or Russ contract beyond this year. I didn't believe the rumors about Russ being willing to sign a vet min contract in the first place, thinking such a low $$ amount would signify that an organization didn't believe in him. He's still getting $32m from the Broncos in 2025, so maybe that works out in our favor again.

 

[Peat]

I wouldn't bet on this personally. In Fields' 6 games, he put up a 10-4 TD to turnover ratio and had a passer rating above 90. I would be very surprised for him to not get a chance to be a starter somewhere, even as a bridge guy. He absolutely performed well enough to get the opportunity, even if that opportunity is only a Minshew type of opportunity.

Granted Minshew played in more games than Fields last year, but Fields' numbers are pretty much better across the chart. The one big advantage that Minshew had was that he got sacked way less, but the Colts also have a far better OL than the Steelers.

Beyond that, it's also worth asking if it's worth paying a backup QB a notable amount of money unless Wilson is signing for another cheap deal. If you're paying Wilson $25 million a year, I'm not sure I want to pay Fields $10+ million a year to be his backup. Especially when you can draft a QB in the 2nd round and have their cap hit only be about $2 million.

People said he'd absolutely performed well enough to get a starter opportunity in his last year at the Bears too. Most of us thought Rudolph would absolutely get QB2 somewhere after '22. It happens. As I said I don't think it's super likely, but it happens often enough that we shouldn't treat only being able to get one as this certainty.

Also, if he's not being given the Minshew opportunity somewhere, he's not in a position to ask for 10+m. Darnold was the 49ers back up for 4.5m. Would 4-6m be too much in such a situation? I don't think so. Back up QB can make or break a season.

p.s. Any QB that lasts until the Steelers' 2nd rounder can probably be had in the 5th round anyway. You also probably don't want to use them as more than a QB3 for a few years unless you got grossly lucky.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

I think the only real concern I have with Wilson at this point is his clearly declined arm strength, as others have noted. Even with the nice moon balls, he pretty firmly underthrew some of them and got lucky one of them wasn't intercepted. That being said, he's 36 so I have no expectation that he'll have the same physical traits as he had at 26.

I talked about this last night, but I do think this team will need to make a decision on either going with Wilson or Fields as the starter beyond this year. I do not think it's possible/reasonable to keep both, I think you either keep Wilson and draft a successor high in the draft or you keep Fields and build the offense around him. And with how Wilson has played, I think the first option is becoming more and more the obvious option to pursue.

It stinks because I really liked what I saw out of Fields and think there is real room for growth there, but Wilson gives them the best chance to win now and I think Fields is too old to sit as a backup for 2-3 years. I'd much rather draft a 20/21 year old QB and have him sit and learn behind Wilson over having a soon to be 26 year old Fields sitting in that role. Fields definitely earned himself at minimum a Minshew type of contract/opportunity with his play this year, I hope he cashes in on that.

They tried the JF experiment and it was "good enough". But good enough just gets you NHALS and I'm tired of that.
With Russ I feel we could at least threaten to win a f***ing playoff game.

I want nothing to do with JF after this season unless he is cool with a backup designation on the cheap.

He will never be a passing threat in this league. And he’s only going to get slower and more injured.

If you can squeeze two more bridge years out of RW until you strategically get the next guy then I’m fine with that. JF and RW are both great teammates. JF doesn’t see the field well enough to be a passing threat. He’s a perfect backup, though.

 

[WickedWrister]

Fields did enough in his 6 games that he'll have suitors in FA. Whether someone is willing to give him a starting job is another story, but there will surely be other interested teams. It seems like he likes it here, but if someone offers him more money or a better chance to start, he probably takes it is my guess.

Agreed with the above that 2nd round QB's are usually bad value - even the halfway decent ones get bumped into the 1st round because of demand.

I'm still annoyed we didn't pick up Najee's 5th year option for like $6.7m. It seems like he's finally putting it all together and will have a productive and efficient season. Retaining him is going to be more expensive than it was a year ago.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

I agree but technically, they are conceding something on defense.

Fair point.
But I think this team can withstand repeated pass attempts against Roberts instead getting gashed on the ground. They are built for an aerial attack.

Fields did enough in his 6 games that he'll have suitors in FA. Whether someone is willing to give him a starting job is another story, but there will surely be other interested teams. It seems like he likes it here, but if someone offers him more money or a better chance to start, he probably takes it is my guess.

Agreed with the above that 2nd round QB's are usually bad value - even the halfway decent ones get bumped into the 1st round because of demand.

I'm still annoyed we didn't pick up Najee's 5th year option for like $6.7m. It seems like he's finally putting it all together and will have a productive and efficient season. Retaining him is going to be more expensive than it was a year ago.

They should let the Harris ship sail and try a different type of back that can be a homerun threat. Imagine a guy like Bijan Robinson or Gibbs on this team. Now that's a true ground and pound approach that Art Smith would like.

 

[WickedWrister]

Fair point.
But I think this team can withstand repeated pass attempts against Roberts instead getting gashed on the ground. They are built for an aerial attack.



They should let the Harris ship sail and try a different type of back that can be a homerun threat. Imagine a guy like Bijan Robinson or Gibbs on this team. Now that's a true ground and pound approach that Art Smith would like.

Are you prepared to spend another 1st round pick on a RB then?

 

[Goalie_Bob]

The issue I had was when Daboll intentionally took the penalty on 2nd and 3 to give the Steelers the first down and Tomlin (and apparently everyone watching) didn't seem to realize he took it on purpose to reset the downs so he wouldn't have to burn his timeouts. Tomlin absolutely needed to decline that flag, but outside the box stuff like that will never, ever be his strong suit.

Daboll sent in a guy to make it 12 men in the huddle and thus Tomlin can't decline the penalty since it is a deadball foul.

 

[Peat]

They should let the Harris ship sail and try a different type of back that can be a homerun threat. Imagine a guy like Bijan Robinson or Gibbs on this team. Now that's a true ground and pound approach that Art Smith would like.

Smith had Robinson and still kept feeding a ton of runs to his bigger angrier runners. I'd be shocked if there wasn't a Harris sized back on the team getting 200+ runs next season. The question for me is whether that guy is Harris or whether it's someone else.

 

[Goalie_Bob]

Are you prepared to spend another 1st round pick on a RB then?

I wouldn't have a problem with spending a first on a true gamebreaking RB. Harris is not even close to that. For example, that clean run to the left would have been a TD for any RB that has any kind of speed. Bijan Robinson or Jahmir Gibbs easily score. Breece Hall, Kyren Williams, etc.

That being said, I don't think it is necessary, just look at what Taylor did for NYG. Good running backs can be found in the 2-5th rounds.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Fields did enough in his 6 games that he'll have suitors in FA. Whether someone is willing to give him a starting job is another story, but there will surely be other interested teams. It seems like he likes it here, but if someone offers him more money or a better chance to start, he probably takes it is my guess.

Agreed with the above that 2nd round QB's are usually bad value - even the halfway decent ones get bumped into the 1st round because of demand.

I'm still annoyed we didn't pick up Najee's 5th year option for like $6.7m. It seems like he's finally putting it all together and will have a productive and efficient season. Retaining him is going to be more expensive than it was a year ago.

Issue is pretty much any drafted QB beyond the top-5 is bad value, and even the top-5 picks miss regularly. I'd even consider using a 1st rounder on a QB if someone like Milroe manages to slide to the mid 1st. Milroe sitting behind Wilson seems like an excellent plan for the future for the QB room.

 

[MrBrightside]

Daboll sent in a guy to make it 12 men in the huddle and thus Tomlin can't decline the penalty since it is a deadball foul.

You can decline any penalty.

 

[ImporterExporter]

Can we all just take a moment and realize how f***ing awful Matt Canada was.

I mean, of all the issues I've had with Tomlin, Canada was probably the greatest. That man had absolutely no business coaching at the NFL level. He wasn't even productive as a coach in college. But he got Tomlin's kid a scholarship, so you know....backroom bl**j**s and all.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

I wouldn't have a problem with spending a first on a true gamebreaking RB. Harris is not even close to that. For example, that clean run to the left would have been a TD for any RB that has any kind of speed. Bijan Robinson or Jahmir Gibbs easily score. Breece Hall, Kyren Williams, etc.

That being said, I don't think it is necessary, just look at what Taylor did for NYG. Good running backs can be found in the 2-5th rounds.

https://x.com/i/web/status/1848786416987476269

 

[Empoleon8771]

It sucks that they didn't pick up Harris' 5th year option at this point but I think it was a no brainer to not pick it up at the time. Harris has done a terrific job at showing why he deserves a contract extension since, but who knows if he would have been as focused as he is now.

I'm still unsure of re-signing him but it's something worth thinking about.

 

[TooManyHumans]

Daboll sent in a guy to make it 12 men in the huddle and thus Tomlin can't decline the penalty since it is a deadball foul.

I'd take the first down anyway. We weren't guaranteed to get one just because it was 2nd and 3.