The Pittsburgh Penguins: last in the *East* after *9* games.

SomeDude

Registered User
Mar 6, 2006
18,205
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Pittsburghish
Crosby has seen a massive decline. Letang is always injured/inconsistent. Ditto Malkin. Karlsson is new.

Not surprising results.

Too late to fire Sullivan now. They had that opportunity years ago & did not do it.
Malkin has been in the conversation for best player in the NHL so far. Karlsson has looked amazing. Letang is what he is. Crosby looks like he does when he knows the coach and system is past their time and just going through the motions.

Fire Sullivan and you never know. The Pens have historically responded very well to midseason coaching changes.
 

HockeyVirus

Woll stan.
Nov 15, 2020
19,483
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I mean, it was very obvious the Pens would miss the playoffs. I put money on it before the season. I know some Pens homers felt differently, but how they lost last year when they tried to make the playoffs along with their end of seasons the few years before.

Dubas isn't a miracle worker.. He was told to try to win by ownership while they still had Crosby. It is just clear the team isn't good enough to do that. Although the contract he gave to Jarry was god awful, and if he doesn't win then the Karlsson deal is awful as well.
 

Chips

Registered User
Aug 19, 2015
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He’s got to be the Gm who gets most excuses in the league. He got Torontos golden core and got zero results with it.

What I’d love to hear from him would be how were these summer moves made for longterm as well. His big speach was we want to compete now but also build for the future

Pens are in for a rough 8-10 years
He probably got the most defenses largely because he was in Toronto and got disproportionate shit compared to what he’d likely have gotten anywhere else, certainly most American cities


The majority of that lack of success was on the core itself and the coaches not playing up to their level. If a team can play in the regular season over 82 games, you don’t have talent issues (4th x2, 6th in the league going back the last several years.) Some of that playoff underperformance of their stars was them being really young in fairness the early years. The earliest years they weren’t actually a top team anyhow.


You have a number of losses to pretty successful playoff teams with a bunch of experienced and clutch players. (And consistently elite goalies)

Last year in the 2nd round it certainly seemed like the depth were scoring enough, not a lot but enough to win if their stars could score. They were mostly losing 1 goal games despite their stars barely doing anything, so somebody was scoring. Same exact thing the Canadiens series the last three games. 1 Nylander goal the last three games, none others from the core. Multiple key scorers that series were some maligned depth players.

The contracts are fair criticism, though it’s fair to point out how early in his tenure that was and I’m curious how his bosses had him running the negotiations alone. Regardless, the Covid cap crunch was real annd exasperated the issue and he’s managed to consistently build top teams despite it. He’s navigated the Covid crunch better than most GMs and pretty reliably found some bargain bin contracts for guys who ended up being solid defensively in the bottom six if nothing else.. although I checked some playoff games and they’ve scored some games the stars weren’t


Top 4 team the last couple years, 6th, and all recently. Certainly not (close to being) the only team who’s been playing musical chairs/roulette with available goalies, because there simply isn’t a ton of legit rock solid available and there’s been competition. Thing is, the overwhelming majority of teams will never be perfect. He’s been great if imperfect.




Penguins: yes he mortgaged the future. That was always the gameplan, the org is being loyal to the core and they were always in for a particularly rough decade. That’s what happens when you find the success the Penguins found. It’s still early anyhow, and certainly there’s an argument against the stale coaching.
 
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DickSmehlik

Registered User
Oct 23, 2006
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The Empire State
Their core isn't too far away from being eligible for medicare.

No one should shocked when your team who failed to make the post-season last year and didn't advance in the post-season the previous 4 seasons, and got older in the off-season, is declining.

Those Pens as a playoff contender off season threads were hilarious to read.
 

Trade

Guentzel is ELITE
Apr 13, 2015
7,254
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Penguins have 2 goals between their entire bottom-6 and defense so far this year.

Sullivan’s usage of the bottom-6 has been terrible for years.
 
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Chips

Registered User
Aug 19, 2015
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Several others who were not the main reason the team failed the last 3 playoff appearances. Either by horrendous play or not being available because they can’t be trusted to stay healthy at the most important part of the season.

This is such a tired response. You don’t handcuff yourself to a goalie that has done nothing but let you down every time they’ve had the opportunity. Try literally anyone else. Anyone. Crappy goalie? Ok, sign them to a cheap one year deal and use the cap flexibility to improve the team in front of them. Try something other than the same thing that has proven doesn’t work.
Who was available was all I was asking. I don’t have a list in my head.
 

Peasy

Registered User
May 25, 2012
17,773
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Star Shoppin
No, it’s sounds like a Mike Sullivan team. The bottom 6 has been garbage years before Dubas got here.

Sullivan has the antiquated view that the top 6 scores and the bottom 6 defends. The bottom 6 has been allergic to offense for years.
Dubas was never able to get bottom 6 scoring for the Leafs. Why waste assets and 10m cap hit on someone like Karlsson which doesnt even address the major issues the Pens had last year (shit depth scoring, goaltending, team defence etc).

1698326217205.png


Are you really telling me a new coach will be able to get scoring out of this bottom 6 lmao?
 

JKG33

Leafs & Kings
Oct 31, 2009
7,588
11,496
Winnipeg
They hired one of the worst GMs in hockey, who immediately spent $10m in cap space on one of the biggest defensive liabilities (who happens to play defende... allegedly) around.

I thought it was quite clear they're tanking?
 

SomeDude

Registered User
Mar 6, 2006
18,205
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Pittsburghish
Dubas was never able to get bottom 6 scoring for the Leafs. Why waste assets and 10m cap hit on someone like Karlsson which doesnt even address the major issues the Pens had last year (shit depth scoring, goaltending, team defence etc).

View attachment 758092

Are you really telling me a new coach will be able to get scoring out of this bottom 6 lmao?
A new coach might bring up young players who have scored in the AHL like Puustinen or Poulin and actually give them a look at the next level.

Mike Sullivan’s actual response to why he doesn’t play a young player with offensive upside on the 3rd line is that they don’t PK and you have to PK to play in the bottom 6.
 
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LOFIN

Registered User
Sep 16, 2011
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I thought it was quite clear they're tanking?
No, it wasn't. The ownership has a clear mission: give Crosby, Malkin and Letang one last shot at the cup. Everyone should realize this is the mandate Dubas was given. He himself might have thought it's a stupid idea and rebuild should commence ASAP, but that's not what he was brought in for. He was brought in to give one last shot in the arm of that team, and I thought on paper he did an excellent job during the summer. Some good additions, and the biggest impact player on the market in EK65.

If it fails, it fails. Dubas has a long contract to oversee the rebuild as well, so I doubt he will get the blame if this attempt (which most of the people was a long shot anyways) isn't going to cut it.
 
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AlexModvechkin8

At least there was 2018.
Sponsor
Feb 18, 2012
27,539
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District of Champions
Tell me you haven't watched the Penguins in the last couple of years, without telling me that you haven't watched the Penguins in the last couple of years.
Yeah the Penguins have the opposite problem of the Caps. The Penguins stars are still stars but their depth is terrible. The Caps have solid depth but Backstrom, Kuznetsov, and Oshie are washed, Mantha is an anchor, and Ovi can’t carry everyone any more as a 38 year old. Two older and declining teams but for two very different reasons.
 

Chips

Registered User
Aug 19, 2015
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7,280
Last season was 82 games and they missed the playoffs.
Barely, and they almost beat the rangers the previous year (owning 5v5) if not for injuries and an unfortunate rule change regarding helmets


They obviously won’t be a top team again, but especially with a coach change (or just time. They’re not the only team struggling out the gate) they can make the playoffs with health.
 

Craft Beer Lover

Registered User
Nov 14, 2022
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Mt Laurel, NJ
Lots of people pronouncing the end of Crosby/Malkin and Dubas a dud after 6 whole games. Fruit fly logic.

Larkin finishing 2nd in the Art Ross race this year too?

There is no "rebuilding" with Crosby/Malkin/Letang. It's unheard of in NA pro sports to have 3 superstars play together that long, and they're the core of the most successful team of their era. You see it through to the end and give them every opportunity to compete. The alternative is what...sell them off for a bunch of middling 1st rounders to hopefully get a core half as good in 10 years? Get real.
You’re right. The solution is to wait until they really suck, and have Bettman fix the draft of the next generational player so that the Penguins’ ping pong ball comes up, like that was done with Crosby in 2005. 🤭:sarcasm:
 
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