OT: The overwhelming negativity of this board

[NyQuil]

I think this hits the nail on the head about what's missing these days — enthusiasm. Fun-loving. At one point I had tons of fun making those fun and themed GDTs, and it was easy to justify. This was a really fun place that brought more excitement and positivity than anything. Sure, it had its warts, as HF has had even at its best days. But those were drowned out by the fact that we were all pulling for our team to have success, even if our methods and our collective viewpoints on how to get there didn't always align.

These days, though we still have that common goal of seeing a successful team, we have such a deep divide on how to get there that it leads to a few factions:

• Pro-management types telling anti-management types they're wrong to demand better of that and that they should just shut up and enjoy the product on the ice,
• Anti-management types telling pro-management types they're wrong to enjoy the product on the ice and that they should demand better of management,
• Those who would rather ignore the management side of discussion altogether and focus on talking hockey, which is really hard when the on-ice and off-ice sides of this team have become so intertwined.

The end result is this: though I think we can all agree that the team is on the upswing and things are looking up in the short term, but that there's no long term certainty. That's leading to anxiety, it's leading to uncertainty, and it's leading to a lack of emotional buy-in out of fear that, even in the likelihood that this team starts seeing more on-ice success, it'll all be ripped away in the same sense that the 2017 ECF team was ripped away.

So, how is it even possible to restore that fun-loving, enthusiastic side of the site that brought and kept so many of us here for years? Is it just a matter of enjoying what we have while it lasts and not concerning ourselves with the future? These aren't facetious or rhetorical questions, either — I'd love some input on How We Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Bomb. I post here more out of habit than anything these days, and I haven't felt the drive to put any effort into a creative GDT for years. The part I quoted above prompted me to look back on my external hard drive at some of my old GDTs and, man, those were some fun days. I'd love to get back there.

This is a great post, kudos.

 

[FormentonTheFuture]

I find it interesting that this post has likes, especially for people advocating for positivity. Isnt shaming posters the exact thing you are asking to be stopped?

My post can be deleted if needed but I feel the boards are a much better place without that user. Just my honest opinion. He also ruins conversations on sens Reddit. But again delete my post, mods, if that is unnecessary banter.

 

[BatherSeason]

I'm not a fan of it but telling people what to do also isn't my jam.

Sorry, maybe I am misunderstanding...am I telling people what to do in my post?

 

[Micklebot]

I think it's a sign that there's a very passionate and interested community.

I mean, the Minnesota Wild had a GDT with one person posting in it for the entire game.

I'd look at it as a positive as opposed to a negative.

That thread was legendary. Almost as good as Canada cutlery, which sadly didn't survive the cull when we switched over to xenoforo

 

[NyQuil]

Sorry, maybe I am misunderstanding...am I telling people what to do in my post?

I'm saying I agree with you but I didn't post about it because nothing good will come of it. Just my opinion.

Technically it's the kind of thing you can report as a personal attack.

If I were still a mod, I might just delete it with a warning about not making negative posts about individual posters.

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

I think this hits the nail on the head about what's missing these days — enthusiasm. Fun-loving. At one point I had tons of fun making those fun and themed GDTs, and it was easy to justify. This was a really fun place that brought more excitement and positivity than anything. Sure, it had its warts, as HF has had even at its best days. But those were drowned out by the fact that we were all pulling for our team to have success, even if our methods and our collective viewpoints on how to get there didn't always align.

These days, though we still have that common goal of seeing a successful team, we have such a deep divide on how to get there that it leads to a few factions:

• Pro-management types telling anti-management types they're wrong to demand better of that and that they should just shut up and enjoy the product on the ice,
• Anti-management types telling pro-management types they're wrong to enjoy the product on the ice and that they should demand better of management,
• Those who would rather ignore the management side of discussion altogether and focus on talking hockey, which is really hard when the on-ice and off-ice sides of this team have become so intertwined.

The end result is this: though I think we can all agree that the team is on the upswing and things are looking up in the short term, but that there's no long term certainty. That's leading to anxiety, it's leading to uncertainty, and it's leading to a lack of emotional buy-in out of fear that, even in the likelihood that this team starts seeing more on-ice success, it'll all be ripped away in the same sense that the 2017 ECF team was ripped away.

So, how is it even possible to restore that fun-loving, enthusiastic side of the site that brought and kept so many of us here for years? Is it just a matter of enjoying what we have while it lasts and not concerning ourselves with the future? These aren't facetious or rhetorical questions, either — I'd love some input on How We Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Bomb. I post here more out of habit than anything these days, and I haven't felt the drive to put any effort into a creative GDT for years. The part I quoted above prompted me to look back on my external hard drive at some of my old GDTs and, man, those were some fun days. I'd love to get back there.

A bit of humor goes a long way. A lot of the 2Chains and random "Stone!" posts really do a lot to improve the mood. Some folks here definitely have a knack for it.

 

[BatherSeason]

My post can be deleted if needed but I feel the boards are a much better place without that user. Just my honest opinion

Sorry, I didn't mean to cherry pick your post specifically, there are others that are worse, it was just the closest example I could find.

 

[FormentonTheFuture]

Sorry, I didn't mean to cherry pick your post specifically, there are others that are worse, it was just the closest example I could find.

It’s fine, I didn’t take offence.

 

[NyQuil]

A bit of humor goes a long way. A lot of the 2Chains and random "Stone!" posts really do a lot to improve the mood. Some folks here definitely have a knack for it.

@2CHAINZ is my brother from the same mother.

But different fathers.

It's an interesting story that will have to wait for another day.

 

[BatherSeason]

Sorry, I didn't mean to cherry pick your post specifically, there are others that are worse, it was just the closest example I could find.

This is another good example:

I don’t think anyone takes offence to a normal level of negative discussion around the team, I think people take offence to the same 8 asshats that post the same crap day in and day out to get a rise out of those who like to discuss hockey and the organization in an intelligent and respectful manner.

Calling posters "asshats" isn't gonna get us very far in what you are trying to accomplish. Especially when it comes from a mod. Sorry, just my opinion. Once again, its a two way street.

 

[FormentonTheFuture]

This is another good example:



Calling posters "asshats" isn't gonna get us very far in what you are trying to accomplish. Especially when it comes from a mod. Sorry, just my opinion. Once again, its a two way street.

Agree with this for sure.

 

[HSF]

Passion is better than apathy.

But I have to admit, I am surprised about Minnesota. That is an amazing hockey state. Makes you wonder what is going on over there for the fans to abandon them. (Ok, their cap and the Parise/Suter contracts really hurt...but still...)

The definition of a mediocre team for as long as I can rmr and I’m turning 30

sens have been very lucky to have some good teams to watch in my lifetime I’m hoping for more soon .

I don’t agree with how the rebuild went down but this method of tanking has proven to work in obtaining talent

 

[Pierre from Orleans]

So you are saying I can't criticize people's opinions? Why? Aren't they criticizing other people's actions/opinions too? Why would anybody giving his opinion be immune to criticism himself? Did I insult you by saying that?

I think you are well aware of what I mean given how many times you have been called out on it before. I'll leave it at that so we don't get into any negative back and forth

 

[Xspyrit]

Meh, I come here to overreact.

If Cody Ceci turns the puck over and blows the game, I reserve the right to be pissed at him. I might call him names or get angry.

These are professionals and grown adults and I'm not going to treat Senators players like kids in nursery school. They make millions of dollars to perform in front of an audience. I fork over thousands of dollars a year in support of them.

"Well, at least he's still a good person."

f*** that. That's not why I'm here. I'm sure he's a fine person, but this is a hockey discussion board and I prefer to dwell on that aspect of his life.

I won't say it to his face, because that's not the kind of guy I am. But I will express my views on his hockey abilities in any way I see fit.

I understand in theory. It's true that human beings, we are emotional and need to "express ouselves" but look at this situation :

If your son plays a hockey game and someone in the stands calls him a "f***ing moron" or a "f***ing idiot", how would you feel? Personally I would go to that person and politely tell him to stop, even if my son was a 16 y/o playing in triple letters. Then I would hope that the person would be reasonable and stop before it becomes a problem.

The thing is Cody Ceci/Jared Cowen has a mother, a girlfriend, friends, family, etc, so how do you think they feel when somebody calls them "a dumb giraffe on skates". It's not because they are professional hockey players and make money out of it that they are not people as well. We have to start with the mentality that no player in the NHL is garbage, none. They make bad plays or bad decisions but none of them is garbage.

I have read you for years and I know you're not that "kind of guy", however I am saying we have to keep it to certain level. If Anderson lets in a bad goal I would say "what a bad goal to give" or "awful effort" or something like that but I can't resign myself to call him "garbage" or "stupid idiot". Maybe that's just me and I have very different perspective. Impossible for me to not fight this.

 

[BondraTime]

Eh, teams been in a shithole on an island in the middle of quicksand. Not surprised it's negative

 

[Xspyrit]

I think you are well aware of what I mean given how many times you have been called out on it before. I'll leave it at that so we don't get into any negative back and forth

But that's your opinion and people who think similarly opinions. It's not because you call me out on it that it makes it the absolute truth.

For example, if someone says "f***ing Racial Slur, all the same", I reserve my right to absolutely trash that person. Making offensive statements doesn't make you immune to the same treatment, au contraire.

That's for bashing, but even if it's acceptable criticism, I certainly have the right to criticize somebody's else opinion. I really don't see a reason for why it would be prohibited.

So to answer your post, no matter how many times you called me out on it, sorry but I still don't agree.

 

[NyQuil]

Slight tangent here.

One of the courses I took during my Masters degree was on conflict management. Interestingly, it turned out to be one of the most useful courses that I've taken in my entire academic career.

Of relevance is the realization that you can have "fact-based" arguments but you can't have "value-based" arguments.

A value-based argument can't go anywhere because these are fundamental beliefs that people possess, and they are unchanging. Values are established over time and very difficult to modify without some life-altering experience.

I think if we try to stay away from value-based arguments, this board will run a lot smoother. What does that mean?

Well, for one, telling people what or how to think. How do you think this kind of thing gets received?

You're THINKING WRONG? Your beliefs are counter-productive? And what does that mean? Your brain doesn't work properly?

That's not conducive to discussion because there's no discussion to be had.

I sort of straddle the good-fan / bad-fan argument because I'm anti-management but pro-supporting the team financially.

I understand the fact that Melnyk is a poor owner (for a variety of reasons) and supporting the Senators intrinsically means supporting him. Will things change with him at the helm? It certainly appears hard to imagine. It's why a lot of people are down on the team regardless of what picks we accumulate. The only leverage we have on the management of the team is financially, and so Senators fans have chosen to exert that decision-making authority and the lack of confidence in either the competitiveness or entertainment factor of the team or the suitability of team management.

But I also understand that there are Senators players on the ice working their asses off that deserve to have some people in the stands watching them. And that franchises like Arizona seem to indicate that the NHL will bend over backwards to preserve the status quo.

Eventually, I made my decision on what to do with my own resources. I value NHL hockey as a form of entertainment and ultimately I'd rather watch them in person from time to time than try to influence some kind of massive cultural or ownership change by holding back my support. I have so many years of life and I'd rather spend some of those in the stands. Win or lose, I still manage to enjoy myself.

I understand people who boycott the Senators and people who continue to buy season tickets. These are both valid opinions based on a fundamental difference in belief about what is best for the team. I don't participate in those arguments anymore because they don't go anywhere, because you can't change the values that underpin those beliefs. You can't change someone's mind on those kinds of issues and you just end up frustrated and fed up as a result.

 

[NyQuil]

I understand in theory. It's true that human beings, we are emotional and need to "express ouselves" but look at this situation :

If your son plays a hockey game and someone in the stands calls him a "f***ing moron" or a "f***ing idiot", how would you feel? Personally I would go to that person and politely tell him to stop, even if my son was a 16 y/o playing in triple letters. Then I would hope that the person would be reasonable and stop before it becomes a problem.

The thing is Cody Ceci/Jared Cowen has a mother, a girlfriend, friends, family, etc, so how do you think they feel when somebody calls them "a dumb giraffe on skates". It's not because they are professional hockey players and make money out of it that they are not people as well. We have to start with the mentality that no player in the NHL is garbage, none. They make bad plays or bad decisions but none of them are garbage.

I have read you for years and I know you're not that "kind of guy", however I am saying we have to keep it to certain level". If Anderson lets in a bad goal I would say "what a bad goal to give" or "awful effort" or something like that but I can't resign myself to call him "garbage" or "stupid idiot". Maybe that's just me and I have very different perspective. Impossible for me to not fight this.

I don't equate minor hockey with NHL professionals, so I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.

I like getting worked up emotionally and reacting. It's an outlet.

I don't jump around screaming and hugging people in my day to day life when something good happens, and I don't throw remotes at the wall and curse out someone's name when something bad happens.

For my part, I don't get personal with the players in person meeting them. That's a line I have drawn for myself.

Have I booed lackluster play by the team or by individual players? Sure I have.

 

[Xspyrit]

I don't equate minor hockey with NHL professionals, so I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.

I like getting worked up emotionally and reacting. It's an outlet.

I don't jump around screaming and hugging people in my day to day life when something good happens, and I don't throw remotes at the wall and curse out someone's name when something bad happens.

So this might be the root of the problem, a lot of people might take professional sports leagues like some kind of fiction. Maybe it's my problem because I can't.

And that's the thing, because after reading you for years I know that you're a totally level headed person but you could still react that way. I think all this might have more to do with what the internet is, like some kind of parallel universe where we act and think differently. Even with some people I had altercations with in the past, I'm sure there would be no problem at all in real life.

If I win the lottery, I'll invite everybody to a few games so we could develop some kind of fanbase chemistry and maybe meeting each others in real life would be totally different. Chances that it doesn't happen are very high though lol

Conclusion : internet and social medias are some kind of parallel universe that people use to rant and vent.

 

[NyQuil]

Funny anecdote:

Mrs_NyQuil met Nick Foligno at a function, and she's a bit of a blonde stunner (IMO) so I'm sure he was expecting the usual softball fangirl comment.

"Nick, I noticed you were -4 in the last game, and you only played like 12 minutes? What's up with that?"

He laughed.

"I KNOW! And for one of them I had literally just stepped on the ice. What's up with that!?!"

 

[Stylizer1]

I understand in theory. It's true that human beings, we are emotional and need to "express ouselves" but look at this situation :

If your son plays a hockey game and someone in the stands calls him a "f***ing moron" or a "f***ing idiot", how would you feel? Personally I would go to that person and politely tell him to stop, even if my son was a 16 y/o playing in triple letters.

The thing is Cody Ceci/Jared Cowen has a mother, a girlfriend, friends, family, etc, so how do you think they feel when somebody calls them "a dumb giraffe on skates". It's not because they are professional hockey players and make money out of it that they are not people as well. We have to start with no player in the NHL is garbage, none. They make bad plays or bad decisions but none of them are garbage.

I have read you for years and I know you're not that "kind of guy", however I am saying we have to keep it to certain level". If Anderson lets in a bad goal I would say "what a bad goal to give" or "awful effort" or something like that but I can't resign myself to call him "garbage" or "stupid idiot". Maybe that's just me and I have very different perspective. Impossible for me to not fight this.

You clearly believe your opinion is better than everyone elses and that rubs people the wrong way. If anyone disagrees with you, you insult them for not knowing as much as you. You write books to show off how much research you do and never acknowledge anyone's counter point and when you do it's very condescending. You do every thing you can to invalidate the person and not their opinion. If Bobby Ryan was you brother or son then okay defend away but when someone calls him garbage they are not talking about him personally, they're talking about his play. The fact you take offence to that means you are probably investing more into it than you should. You need to stop exaggerating people lower sense of morality and stop inflating yours.

 

[NyQuil]

So this might be the root of the problem, a lot of people might take professional sports leagues like some kind of fiction. Maybe it's my problem because I can't.

I'm not convinced that my perspective is correct, or even healthy.

But I like it, I'm old and I'm not going to turn off my negative reactions to what happens on the ice.

Part of the entertainment value for me is getting emotionally invested in what happens. And for me it's both positive and negative emotion.

It's why I choose to spend money on it as opposed to other pursuits.

 

[Pierre from Orleans]

But that's your opinion and people who think similarly opinions. It's not because you call me out on it that it makes it the absolute truth.

For example, if someone says "f***ing Racial Slur, all the same", I reserve my right to absolutely trash that person. Making offensive statements doesn't make you immune to the same treatment, au contraire.

That's for bashing, but even if it's acceptable criticism, I certainly have the right to criticize somebody's else opinion. I really don't see a reason for why it would be prohibited.

So to answer your post, no matter how many times you called me out on it, sorry but I still don't agree.

Criticize the post, not the poster. You are guilty of doing the latter.

To the bolded, that's perfectly fine. It just lends credence to my point that everyone has their own opinion and neither yours or mine is better than the other.

 

[NyQuil]

If I win the lottery, I'll invite everybody to a few games so we could develop some kind of fanbase chemistry and maybe meeting each others in real life would be totally different. Chances that it doesn't happen are very high though lol

Conclusion : internet and social medias are some kind of parallel universe that people use to rant and vent.

We used to actually meet at MacLaren's pub on Elgin. One of the meets took place during that infamous game where Emery fought with Peters and Biron.

It was fun to put faces to names and talk hockey with passionate folks.

It didn't necessarily mean we didn't go back at it on the board when something divisive came up.

As I said earlier, if we stay away from dictating behaviour and simply just acting the way we think we should, things will go a lot more smoothly IMO.

 

[topshelf15]

I'm not very impressed with what they're doing with the resources that they possess.

Vancouver might be the only team that is showing actual progress.

Whether or not it was financially-driven, it's becoming obvious that a rebuild was necessary. We had Stone, we had Karlsson, and with an extremely veteran-laden line-up, we upset a few teams on the way to the ECF.

But HFers wanted us to stop just missing the playoffs, or just making the playoffs, and to get ourselves into the lottery and draft some top-tier talent.

Well, we've done it. We may have to do it again next season. But that's step one of the process.

This is my point we drafted both of these two great players,we had the planets best defender for 7 seasons on a great deal...Yet we did nothing to augment him by getting more players to put around him...Our big push was trade for 3rd liners,and cross our fingers and hope for the best...So tell me how different is it going to be for kids like Tkachuk,Stuzle,Bath etc??

Its nice to call out negativity ,but you should likely do it when you have something for this fanbase to actually hope for