OT: THE OT Thread: Grass mowing szn is here

[MarkusKetterer]

It's better to avoid the politics of it (site rules that will ultimately have our posts deleted).

Debating economics is fun, though. I've always been intrigued by the subject. I actually have my degree in Economics. Only a bachelor degree, though, so Im open to reading differing opinions.

I don’t think economics is political. It’s actually a complex field. I just know in my life I’ve had to accept less pay on a job (sometimes even start working for free), had to layoff someone even if I needed them, had to do other work for free unrelated to my job just to continue my job, and sometimes had to walk away halfway through.

Sometimes people just think A is simple, but if it were you wouldn’t hire me. Because you know I’m doing ABC and sometimes D. It’s not my fault that you work for $27 an hour and I’m charging you $75 an hour.

 

[Old Navy Goat]

The issue there is if you look at inflation for 2021, '22, '23 it's 7%, 6.5%, 3.4% while corporate profits are up 22.6%, 9.8%, and 1.5% points to gouging from large companies just because they could. Saying that it's on inflation factors discounts how hard the dry fisting of common consumers has been by big business.


Based on US released figures from here:

Consumer Price Index: 2021 in review : The Economics Daily: U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics

From December 2020 to December 2021, consumer prices for all items rose 7.0 percent, the largest December to December percent change since 1981. Over the year, food prices increased 6.3 percent, a larger percentage increase than the 12-month increase of 3.9 percent in 2020. Food at home prices...

www.bls.gov

Consumer Price Index: 2022 in review : The Economics Daily: U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics

Consumer prices for all items rose 6.5 percent from December 2021 to December 2022. Food prices increased 10.4 percent, reflecting an 11.8-percent increase in prices for food at home and an 8.3-percent increase in prices for food away from home.

www.bls.gov

Corporate Profits | U.S. Bureau of Economic Analysis (BEA)

Corporate Profits Quarterly

www.bea.gov

Corporations shouldn't be let off the hook, but as everyone knows they graciously pass the costs onto the consumer. Stupid policy decision, after stupid policy decision has driven the inflationary growth.

As I said earlier, it'll be interesting seeing how California's new $20 an hour minimum wage will affect the fast food industry. Going to suck for HS kids looking for that first job as those jobs will decrease in numbers.

Over here prices are government moderated to keep gas down, which keeps food prices down. Well today everything jumped 10 baht so 30 cents, so they're expecting an across the board increase in food etc as transport prices went up. Good thing I splurged $6 on 2kgs of strawberries as being trucked in 8hrs from Chiang Mai they'll be more expensive tomorrow

 

[Chainshot]

Corporations shouldn't be let off the hook, but as everyone knows they graciously pass the costs onto the consumer. Stupid policy decision, after stupid policy decision has driven the inflationary growth.

As I said earlier, it'll be interesting seeing how California's new $20 an hour minimum wage will affect the fast food industry. Going to suck for HS kids looking for that first job as those jobs will decrease in numbers.

Over here prices are government moderated to keep gas down, which keeps food prices down. Well today everything jumped 10 baht so 30 cents, so they're expecting an across the board increase in food etc as transport prices went up. Good thing I splurged $6 on 2kgs of strawberries as being trucked in 8hrs from Chiang Mai they'll be more expensive tomorrow

Passing the cost on to consumer ignores that they have their hands in consumer's pockets just because they can. It's a policy failing to let them do that, in the same way it was a policy failing to allow equity companies to create a housing stock shortage and usuriously increases rent prices at the same time.

If you want to look into how Cali's changes will go, take a look at Seattle's minimum wage adjustment laws. They're already in the 20 dollar range and it's a mix of good and bad. The biggest downside is the 501 employee mark that can push a modest business into a larger than expected expenditure year on year.

 

[Old Navy Goat]

Passing the cost on to consumer ignores that they have their hands in consumer's pockets just because they can. It's a policy failing to let them do that, in the same way it was a policy failing to allow equity companies to create a housing stock shortage and usuriously increases rent prices at the same time.

If you want to look into how Cali's changes will go, take a look at Seattle's minimum wage adjustment laws. They're already in the 20 dollar range and it's a mix of good and bad. The biggest downside is the 501 employee mark that can push a modest business into a larger than expected expenditure year on year.

I'll take a look at Seattle but that's really a microcosm of the state as a whole since those salaries would be the death knell to farms etc. California is doing it state wide and the COL is night and day between the interior and the coast. I just have a passing interest in what happens back in the US as I really can't ever see living there again

 

[Gras]

Passing the cost on to consumer ignores that they have their hands in consumer's pockets just because they can. It's a policy failing to let them do that, in the same way it was a policy failing to allow equity companies to create a housing stock shortage and usuriously increases rent prices at the same time.

If you want to look into how Cali's changes will go, take a look at Seattle's minimum wage adjustment laws. They're already in the 20 dollar range and it's a mix of good and bad. The biggest downside is the 501 employee mark that can push a modest business into a larger than expected expenditure year on year.

Seattle also severly hampered the people that did delivery service gig work like Uber Eats and Postmates

 

[Ehran]

I wasn't sure where to put this so I'm dropping it here.

This is one of those sports stories that just makes you go "You only had ONE JOB..."

Dimensions of 3-point lines on Portland court differ for women’s March Madness

Since its behind a paywall here is the gist:

The court used at Portland’s Moda Center, one of the sites for the women’s NCAA Tournament Regionals, has dimension discrepancies for the 3-point line, according to the NCAA. The NCAA said that they were informed Sunday that the 3-point lines on the floor were “not the same distance.”

he NCAA measured from the baseline to the top of the 3-point line and discovered a discrepancy at one end of the court from the other,

 

[MarkusKetterer]

Corporations shouldn't be let off the hook, but as everyone knows they graciously pass the costs onto the consumer. Stupid policy decision, after stupid policy decision has driven the inflationary growth.

As I said earlier, it'll be interesting seeing how California's new $20 an hour minimum wage will affect the fast food industry. Going to suck for HS kids looking for that first job as those jobs will decrease in numbers.

Over here prices are government moderated to keep gas down, which keeps food prices down. Well today everything jumped 10 baht so 30 cents, so they're expecting an across the board increase in food etc as transport prices went up. Good thing I splurged $6 on 2kgs of strawberries as being trucked in 8hrs from Chiang Mai they'll be more expensive tomorrow

Unfortunately in the middle of the day, McDonald’s DOESN’T have HS kids working for them. It’s people working a job so they have an income. I’ve worked there. Nobody is just sitting back shooting the shit and being lazy, aside from the managers. I used to work 6am to 8pm every day just to be able to pay my bills (aside from smoking, my bills are rent, car insurance, gas and food).

 

[TheMistyStranger]

Kid just touched down in Venice. Real time air tracking is really nice as a parent.

 

[Jim Bob]

Kid just touched down in Venice. Real time air tracking is really nice as a parent.

As is location sharing. Although, I seem to track Nate's location way less than most parents.

 

[TheMistyStranger]

As is location sharing. Although, I seem to track Nate's location way less than most parents.

I used that last night to make sure they got the JFK okay

 

[Chainshot]

Still trying to see a doctor about my knee. And my apartment complex deleted my account at some point in the last few days so I have to go to their office to get it fixed so I can pay my rent.

But in happier news, our "foster" dog is now heartworm free!

 

[Der Jaeger]

I was trying to be specific enough with my wording. Lower middle class/working class and poorer are gettimg screwed the most. My main point was, trickle down economics is a scam.

I think the economic models and trajectory aspects tend to be intertwined with politics, and people tend to seek political solutions for economic problems, largely. I'm not formally trained in economics, but part of my post-grad was understanding economies of nations as a means to understand the country as a system (and then effect the system to achieve a national policy objective).

I tend to see the economic-political shifts as a pendulum. When you let the pendulum swing too far to the ungoverned side, you get robber baron economics where the worker is getting screwed. Immigrant workers coming to America and working in industry 100-150 years ago were living in poverty, while the rich got a lot richer.

From there comes the Marxist desire to swing to a regulated government. But that's seriously flawed as well. Marxist governments never work because there is still a power strata at the top, with room for corruption and bribery. The people live at the lowest common denominator, and the strata of wealthy and national politician combines, with no option for the people to lift the yoke.

I toured the Stasi headquarters in Berlin in 2006, as it's now a museum. I think study of East Germany should be part of any serious thought about adopting a more socialist style of government and/or economy. One of the tour guides was an older lady who was actually jailed there and tortured in the basement. She said one of the most memorable lines I've ever heard: "Communism and socialism are the best forms of government invented by man. However, only Christ could run it, as man is corruptible."

I've lived in Germany and South Korea, and spent significant time in Vietnam, France, Austria, Bulgaria, Romania, and Italy, as well as traveling through a bunch of other countries. So I've seen how systems can be run in different countries. I think the biggest issue in America right now is the intertwining of politicians and corporations. There's plenty of proof to show that Congress, no matter who is in majority, is largely doing the bidding of lobbies.

If I could snap my fingers an implement one solution, it'd be congressional term limits. I think better economic policies would follow, and we'd be more apt to find the happy medium instead of over-regulation, big government spending, and Marxism, and the small government, laissez-faire method of national government where the worker is largely held in poverty. In both instances at the end of the pendulum, there is still an elite taking advantage of the people economically.

There are interesting economic ideas out there, and it'll be a good case study to see how the minimum wage raise on the west coast goes in the long term. My jaded initial reaction is that the price will be passed to the consumer, as always, since the corporate won't accept less profit.

 

[Gras]

I think the economic models and trajectory aspects tend to be intertwined with politics, and people tend to seek political solutions for economic problems, largely. I'm not formally trained in economics, but part of my post-grad was understanding economies of nations as a means to understand the country as a system (and then effect the system to achieve a national policy objective).

I tend to see the economic-political shifts as a pendulum. When you let the pendulum swing too far to the ungoverned side, you get robber baron economics where the worker is getting screwed. Immigrant workers coming to America and working in industry 100-150 years ago were living in poverty, while the rich got a lot richer.

From there comes the Marxist desire to swing to a regulated government. But that's seriously flawed as well. Marxist governments never work because there is still a power strata at the top, with room for corruption and bribery. The people live at the lowest common denominator, and the strata of wealthy and national politician combines, with no option for the people to lift the yoke.

I toured the Stasi headquarters in Berlin in 2006, as it's now a museum. I think study of East Germany should be part of any serious thought about adopting a more socialist style of government and/or economy. One of the tour guides was an older lady who was actually jailed there and tortured in the basement. She said one of the most memorable lines I've ever heard: "Communism and socialism are the best forms of government invented by man. However, only Christ could run it, as man is corruptible."

I've lived in Germany and South Korea, and spent significant time in Vietnam, France, Austria, Bulgaria, Romania, and Italy, as well as traveling through a bunch of other countries. So I've seen how systems can be run in different countries. I think the biggest issue in America right now is the intertwining of politicians and corporations. There's plenty of proof to show that Congress, no matter who is in majority, is largely doing the bidding of lobbies.

If I could snap my fingers an implement one solution, it'd be congressional term limits. I think better economic policies would follow, and we'd be more apt to find the happy medium instead of over-regulation, big government spending, and Marxism, and the small government, laissez-faire method of national government where the worker is largely held in poverty. In both instances at the end of the pendulum, there is still an elite taking advantage of the people economically.

There are interesting economic ideas out there, and it'll be a good case study to see how the minimum wage raise on the west coast goes in the long term. My jaded initial reaction is that the price will be passed to the consumer, as always, since the corporate won't accept less profit.

I think a repeal of the 17th Amendment would severely hamper the power of lobbyists, but if I went down the term limit route I would have it set to 6 years for House of Reps and 12 years total combined between both houses, but I would also extend the limits to only one family member can hold office at one time between Congress/Executive/Judicial and for president you still have the two term limit but once you hold that level of office your Parents/Spouse/Siblings/Children are barred from being elected president in order to severely limit political oligarchy.

On the minimum wage, some of the additional cost may be passed on the consumers, but you will also see more of a push to automation and workers hours will be cut or people will be let go from their positions.

With the fast food restaurants most people think they are going after the big corporations but with most of the chains the locations are owned by franchisees, McDonalds corporate itself is really more of a real estate company than anything.

 

[Chainshot]

Removing the ruling on the Citizens United case via law to limit corporate donations would also be a step in trying to push toward ending lobbying influence. So to would making all donations public record. But that means those in power would have to want to make that change and something neither party has shown any willingness to do since the benefits are mutual.

Similarly, making it outright illegal for members of Congress or their immediate families to trade stock during and for a period of time after serving would be another push toward representative governance that isn't at the money trough. Allowing people to make money off the industries that they are making policy over is part of the abuse of power that has the stock market such a pandered partner of Reps and Senators.

But that requires actual political will and we know that isn't going to happen since they would be weening themselves off the gilded teet.

Anyway...

 

[Der Jaeger]

I think a repeal of the 17th Amendment would severely hamper the power of lobbyists, but if I went down the term limit route I would have it set to 6 years for House of Reps and 12 years total combined between both houses, but I would also extend the limits to only one family member can hold office at one time between Congress/Executive/Judicial and for president you still have the two term limit but once you hold that level of office your Parents/Spouse/Siblings/Children are barred from being elected president in order to severely limit political oligarchy.

On the minimum wage, some of the additional cost may be passed on the consumers, but you will also see more of a push to automation and workers hours will be cut or people will be let go from their positions.

With the fast food restaurants most people think they are going after the big corporations but with most of the chains the locations are owned by franchisees, McDonalds corporate itself is really more of a real estate company than anything.

The Sherman Anti-Trust laws were a tremendous step forward for society as a whole. But I suspect people thought that big business would just simply accept the new rules. They didn't and just changed the rules. It's why we ended up with the 17th Amendment and the Fed, among other big changes at the beginning of the 19th Century.

Removing the ruling on the Citizens United case via law to limit corporate donations would also be a step in trying to push toward ending lobbying influence. So to would making all donations public record. But that means those in power would have to want to make that change and something neither party has shown any willingness to do since the benefits are mutual.

Similarly, making it outright illegal for members of Congress or their immediate families to trade stock during and for a period of time after serving would be another push toward representative governance that isn't at the money trough. Allowing people to make money off the industries that they are making policy over is part of the abuse of power that has the stock market such a pandered partner of Reps and Senators.

But that requires actual political will and we know that isn't going to happen since they would be weening themselves off the gilded teet.

Anyway...

Agree with both.

The fundamental issue isn't the economy or political system. It's people who hold power, who won't give up power. It requires a Cincinnatus. Our last Cincinnatus was George Washington, possibly Eisenhower.

There was a reason why each of them warned us of political parties and the military industrial complex in their farewell addresses, respectively. The warning of the MIC can be expanded to oil companies, pharmaceutical companies, banks, etc.

I almost spit out my drink reading "gilded teet."

 

[Ehran]

One of the tour guides was an older lady who was actually jailed there and tortured in the basement. She said one of the most memorable lines I've ever heard: "Communism and socialism are the best forms of government invented by man. However, only Christ could run it, as man is corruptible."

A lot of good points in everyone's posts on this topic. But this quote is one that I'll need to remember.

 

[brian_griffin]

Regardless of the oligarchy, be they elected directly or indirectly, whether via overriding or non-existent influences from wealth-holders, be those wealth-holders individuals or corporations, or both, or neither, an underlying fact remains true:

No nation in the history of mankind regardless of continent, era in time, political philosophy of government, dominant or subordinate political party, available natural resources, or basic economic foundation (industries in that country which create wealth, regardless of how it is distributed), have ever been able to avoid inflation (often leading to hyper-inflation) when creating (printing) money in excess of the rate of GDP growth, regardless of what that money is used for (paying interest on a national debt, intentional deficit spending as so-called stimulus, money injection to ease liquidity concerns, and/or combinations thereof).

The USA money supply has grown in the past few years WELL in excess of the rate of GDP growth (which actually contracted) for a year or two.

In the USA, both major political parties are guilty of this behavior (albeit each to greater or lesser degrees).

A lot of good points in everyone's posts on this topic. But this quote is one that I'll need to remember.

If you want to remember another one, here's James Madison. "But what is government itself, but the greatest of all reflections on human nature. If men were angels*, no government would be necessary. If angels were to govern men, neither external nor internal controls on government would be necessary. In forming a government which is to be administered by men over men, the great difficulty lies in this: you must first enable government to control the governed; and in the next place oblige it to control itself.” –James Madison, The Federalist No. 51

Source: https://www.cato.org/commentary/madisons-angels

*the connotation is not to ethereal beings, but angelic-acting/behaving people, in many regards, altruists.

Many of the founding fathers (and other writers / philosophers of that era, not limited to the American colonies) recognized the corrupt nature of man(kind), independent of political party, and therefore wanted the smallest government possible.

The CATO institute is Libertarian in nature. James M. Buchanan won the Nobel prize in economics for his theories on the inter-twining of politics in economic decision-making. I am not familiar with Buchanan's direct contributions, but am intrigued to learn more. My recollection of the Madison quote came from the Federalist papers themselves; Buchanan's article was the first link from the search engine.

 

[Der Jaeger]

Regardless of the oligarchy, be they elected directly or indirectly, whether via overriding or non-existent influences from wealth-holders, be those wealth-holders individuals or corporations, or both, or neither, an underlying fact remains true:

No nation in the history of mankind regardless of continent, era in time, political philosophy of government, dominant or subordinate political party, available natural resources, or basic economic foundation (industries in that country which create wealth, regardless of how it is distributed), have ever been able to avoid inflation (often leading to hyper-inflation) when creating (printing) money in excess of the rate of GDP growth, regardless of what that money is used for (paying interest on a national debt, intentional deficit spending as so-called stimulus, money injection to ease liquidity concerns, and/or combinations thereof).

The USA money supply has grown in the past few years WELL in excess of the rate of GDP growth (which actually contracted) for a year or two.

In the USA, both major political parties are guilty of this behavior (albeit each to greater or lesser degrees).


If you want to remember another one, here's James Madison. "But what is government itself, but the greatest of all reflections on human nature. If men were angels*, no government would be necessary. If angels were to govern men, neither external nor internal controls on government would be necessary. In forming a government which is to be administered by men over men, the great difficulty lies in this: you must first enable government to control the governed; and in the next place oblige it to control itself.” –James Madison, The Federalist No. 51

Source: https://www.cato.org/commentary/madisons-angels

*the connotation is not to ethereal beings, but angelic-acting/behaving people, in many regards, altruists.

Many of the founding fathers (and other writers / philosophers of that era, not limited to the American colonies) recognized the corrupt nature of man(kind), independent of political party, and therefore wanted the smallest government possible.

The CATO institute is Libertarian in nature. James M. Buchanan won the Nobel prize in economics for his theories on the inter-twining of politics in economic decision-making. I am not familiar with Buchanan's direct contributions, but am intrigued to learn more. My recollection of the Madison quote came from the Federalist papers themselves; Buchanan's article was the first link from the search engine.

The entire country should be given a reading assignment, and have to read The Federalist in the next few weeks.

In post-grad, we read The Federalist prior to our week on the US Constitution. Our Constitution week was taught by SC Justice Scalia. Probably the most amazing three seminars I've ever sat in.

 

[Dubi Doo]

Interesting posts! There's not a perfect solution. That's for sure!

 

[brian_griffin]

The entire country should be given a reading assignment, and have to read The Federalist in the next few weeks.

In post-grad, we read The Federalist prior to our week on the US Constitution. Our Constitution week was taught by SC Justice Scalia. Probably the most amazing three seminars I've ever sat in.

I'm jealous.

Interesting posts! There's not a perfect solution. That's for sure!

Typically for complex problems, there are no solutions, only options with limitations and consequences.

=======================
In entomological news, 2024 is a prime (pun intended) confluence of the emergence of the XIX and XIII broods of cicadas, and other confluences of synchronous emergence. Tough to keep them straight, so here are links (more can be found).

The 2024 Periodical Cicada Emergence | Periodical Cicada Information Pages

The Cicadas Are Coming! Fear Not, Though

I remember in the early 1970s a particularly noisy summer and the two weeping willows in our backyard rife with the empty carcasses.

 

[Der Jaeger]

I'm jealous.

Typically for complex problems, there are no solutions, only options with limitations and consequences.

=======================
In entomological news, 2024 is a prime (pun intended) confluence of the emergence of the XIX and XIII broods of cicadas, and other confluences of synchronous emergence. Tough to keep them straight, so here are links (more can be found).

The 2024 Periodical Cicada Emergence | Periodical Cicada Information Pages

The Cicadas Are Coming! Fear Not, Though

I remember in the early 1970s a particularly noisy summer and the two weeping willows in our backyard rife with the empty carcasses.

I remember the last one, we lived in Virginia. When you went outside, you couldn't hear a thing because the cicadas were so loud.

The dead cicadas were everywhere.

Edit: Scalia. He was balanced, like the video on youtube when he went to congress to speak, but even more so. He gave a fair outlook on the Constitution, and the structure of the government, and explained everything he got from The Federalist.

Someone told me that when you go to post-grad, you start to realize how dumb you actually are. Our Constitution week was week 3 of the course. I'm glad it came up front, because I became acutely aware of how much more I didn't know compared to what I thought I knew. It grounded me to really buckle down and study.

 

[Gras]

I'm jealous.

Typically for complex problems, there are no solutions, only options with limitations and consequences.

=======================
In entomological news, 2024 is a prime (pun intended) confluence of the emergence of the XIX and XIII broods of cicadas, and other confluences of synchronous emergence. Tough to keep them straight, so here are links (more can be found).

The 2024 Periodical Cicada Emergence | Periodical Cicada Information Pages

The Cicadas Are Coming! Fear Not, Though

I remember in the early 1970s a particularly noisy summer and the two weeping willows in our backyard rife with the empty carcasses.

Need to put in my futures on sesame seeds and cumin.

 

[Der Jaeger]

I'm jealous.

Imagine getting 3 1/2 hours of this:

Scalia before the Senate Judiciary Committee

 

[MarkusKetterer]

 

[Dubi Doo]

I'm jealous.

Typically for complex problems, there are no solutions, only options with limitations and consequences.

=======================
In entomological news, 2024 is a prime (pun intended) confluence of the emergence of the XIX and XIII broods of cicadas, and other confluences of synchronous emergence. Tough to keep them straight, so here are links (more can be found).

The 2024 Periodical Cicada Emergence | Periodical Cicada Information Pages

The Cicadas Are Coming! Fear Not, Though

I remember in the early 1970s a particularly noisy summer and the two weeping willows in our backyard rife with the empty carcasses.

For sure! One of my favorite classes in college was Urban Economics. I was fascinated by all the variables at play that play a role in poverty in the US. Specifically, I really enjoyed learning about the impacts of policies on black people, and the ripple effects it's had today. Also, the impact of public transportation, population density, stadiums, etc...on local economies just fascinates me.

I'm actually hoping to switch careers in the next 10 years into Urban Development. I've found an incredibly fulfilling career in health care, but it's a lot on the body and mental. Once I hit my early-to-mid 40s...I'll be on the prowl again. I feel like a career in Urban Development would be very interesting and fulfilling. I just have to hope I have enough saved to take a potential pay cut and work my way up in a company again.