TSN: The Official Ottawa Sports Radio Thread - PART XII

[Beech]

It's not really a generational thing though, that's kind of a red herring because lots of people of every age group listen to radio. This is about production value, which has always been a driving force behind ratings. TSN1200 isn't dying because radio is dying, it's dying because it doesn't know how to adapt to satisfy the need for high quality production.

You probably remember when TV used to be a barren wasteland where once movie stars' careers went to die long, slow deaths. And then what happened? TV production value soared and now TV is seen as the king of that medium.

TSN1200 is just boring. There's some good but it's hidden under a mountain of repetitive bits, dull jokes, stale takes, boring interviews and 60/40 ratio of airtime to ads. That's not what people want. Of any age or generation.

I am not disagreeing, I am adding a twist
1) please read post 1452 (one up)

TV today is different. They have combined the movies, with TV... we have big screen TVs that are theatre like. That has meant you can combine TV and the movies...

Radio, does not have that option. Its one hope was that smart phone apps would be tuned to it.. instead, they got tuned to podcasts and special programing.. They tried.. they pushed Iheart radio something awful and "where you get your apps".. It did not click!!!

Production needs money.. they did not have it.... you can have the Yankees success, the LA Lakers success. You need their money.

So yea, production value was the answer.... they had no way to pay...

 

[FunkySeeFunkyDoo]

I've been through tech layoffs and never got angry at or held a grudge against anyone who did it. But if a man did what you're proposing to me, I'd have beat the holy hell out of him for being that sadistically evil.

assennayo

I’ve been through several tech layoffs as well, and at multiple companies.

There is no “good” way to do it…. Only different degrees of bad.

One thing I will say though, when you’re a manager who has to decide who’s getting let go that is a tough, painful thing to do.

More often than not these people have become your friends, sometimes good friends.

And you’re supposed to just prioritize the company, but at some level you can’t help but think about who has kids to feed and who doesn’t, who will likely get another job easily vs who won’t, etc….

It is real difficult process to go through.

 

[Do Make Say Think]

I have no idea how anyone could have listened to the morning show and think it was awful.

It wasn't amazing or groundbreaking but it was a lot of fun, JR and Simmer had a ton of chemistry.

 

[Beech]

I’ve been through several tech layoffs as well, and at multiple companies.

There is no “good” way to do it…. Only different degrees of bad.

One thing I will say though, when you’re a manager who has to decide who’s getting let go that is a tough, painful thing to do.

More often than not these people have become your friends, sometimes good friends.

And you’re supposed to just prioritize the company, but at some level you can’t help but think about who has kids to feed and who doesn’t, who will likely get another job easily vs who won’t, etc….

It is real difficult process to go through.

it is far less about the layoffs.. It is far less about the decision of who goes and who stays.

It tends to be about the handling.. In many instances Managers can revel in it. Use it as a vengeance tool and as way to embarrass a person. In some place that I have worked it, it has been made so public and so humiliatingly, you shake your head.

It should be handled so quietly. So discretely.. almost clandestinely.. the reality is Mangers and HR at times don't give a f***.. DO it late Friday means they have to stay late, possibly come I on Saturday to assist an employee in removing his belongs f*** that, we do it Tuesday Morning.. and be done by Wednesday afternoon.. and then, they can add insult to injury.. Managers will issue e-mails to everyone that person X is gone and if you read it, it is damn near slanderous... the employee is not there to defend and they go to town..

dignity.. respect..quiet.... Friday afternoon.. now the weekend goes by, Monday comes around. you issue a complimentary message.. no insult, no slander, no insinuation.. no revenge.. the employee is gone. His stuff has been taken.. he does not get embarrassed and those not laid off, are not spooked.

ditto for a firing.

but sadly.. we are human and human weaknesses kick in... pettiness, childness, ego.. cowards who thrive on power trips.. small people with no morals getting high on power and vengeance.. And that is the world we live in. And it is a shame.

 

[FunkySeeFunkyDoo]

it is far less about the layoffs.. It is far less about the decision of who goes and who stays.

It tends to be about the handling.. In many instances Managers can revel in it. Use it as a vengeance tool and as way to embarrass a person. In some place that I have worked it, it has been made so public and so humiliatingly, you shake your head.

It should be handled so quietly. So discretely.. almost clandestinely.. the reality is Mangers and HR at times don't give a f***.. DO it late Friday means they have to stay late, possibly come I on Saturday to assist an employee in removing his belongs f*** that, we do it Tuesday Morning.. and be done by Wednesday afternoon.. and then, they can add insult to injury.. Managers will issue e-mails to everyone that person X is gone and if you read it, it is damn near slanderous... the employee is not there to defend and they go to town..

dignity.. respect..quiet.... Friday afternoon.. now the weekend goes by, Monday comes around. you issue a complimentary message.. no insult, no slander, no insinuation.. no revenge.. the employee is gone. His stuff has been taken.. he does not get embarrassed and those not laid off, are not spooked.

ditto for a firing.

but sadly.. we are human and human weaknesses kick in... pettiness, childness, ego.. cowards who thrive on power trips.. small people with no morals getting high on power and vengeance.. And that is the world we live in. And it is a shame.

You have worked in some extremely unprofessional places my friend.

 

[Beech]

You have worked in some extremely unprofessional places my friend.

yea I have been lucky. Every toilette on earth.

The one decent place. Where the owner loved me.. I left.. If my leg was long enough, I would kick myself in the head.

 

[salomonster]

Doesn't matter how much you listened, all day, game day, morning, mid day or the drive and post game shows. This really sucks for the peeps who lost their jobs. Like em or not.

It also sucks for community radio.

We've had a taste of it in the summers when they would cut programming for ESPN radio.

And it is total garbage for your ears. They will lose listeners not just in the summers now.

Really too bad.

 

[SensHulk]

Sad to hear. I only listen to their podcasts whenever a special guest is on (like Dorion) as well whenever Mike Johnson or Poulin are on so it’s fun to hear simmer’s differing views.

Also appreciated Versage’s appreciation for wrestling, he’s a true fan and had a nice wrestling show for us fanatics to tune into.

As others have mentioned, this is not surprising. Podcasts are the future, and several of them go live as well via YouTube etc. and is on-demand scheduling, so very little overhead. That’s also good news and opportunity for the folks that were cut today. I’m actually surprised sens podcasters haven’t done regular live postgame shows (maybe saving for playoffs)

 

[Stylizer1]

When Ian left that was the last straw for me.

 

[GCK]

It's not really a generational thing though, that's kind of a red herring because lots of people of every age group listen to radio. This is about production value, which has always been a driving force behind ratings. TSN1200 isn't dying because radio is dying, it's dying because it doesn't know how to adapt to satisfy the need for high quality production.

You probably remember when TV used to be a barren wasteland where once movie stars' careers went to die long, slow deaths. And then what happened? TV production value soared and now TV is seen as the king of that medium.

TSN1200 is just boring. There's some good but it's hidden under a mountain of repetitive bits, dull jokes, stale takes, boring interviews and 60/40 ratio of airtime to ads. That's not what people want. Of any age or generation.

Unfortunately there is not enough content in Ottawa to fill 12 straight hours of local sports radio. I think following the TSN1050 model of a morning show and an afternoon drive show. The big benefit 1050 has is their drive show has one host and 2 guys who are contracted on the TV side.

If TSN doesn’t keep the Sens broadcast rights beyond the current contract 1200 will be shuttered.

 

[Tundraman]

I'm retired so I usually listen to TSN1200 in bed at 6:am and then switch to a downstairs radio when I get up for morning coffee. JR and Lloyd are fine on their own shows but I don't like them together. Too much of the same. Simmer was the best co-host for JR in a long long time he kept him alive and on his toes. The rest of the bunch I don't prefer and rarely listen to but AJ's world trips and seemingly manufactured rants do grate on the nerves when I listen just to hear an update on some relevant story.

The station is now only good for RB and Sens games when I'm out and can't watch them on TV.

As of today my radios are on fm. Maybe I'll revisit in Sept or Oct

 

[Beech]

Unfortunately there is not enough content in Ottawa to fill 12 straight hours of local sports radio. I think following the TSN1050 model of a morning show and an afternoon drive show. The big benefit 1050 has is their drive show has one host and 2 guys who are contracted on the TV side.

If TSN doesn’t keep the Sens broadcast rights beyond the current contract 1200 will be shuttered.

-there is more than enough. You have Ottawa with the SENS, The REDBLACKS, THE 67'S, THE BLACK JACKS, ATHLETICO.. You have Carleton, U OF O. You have 2 junior A and B leagues.. you have independent league baseball..

-Now add the ones and twos off.. single day, single week events that may come..

-Now Eastern Ontario,
-Now Ontario, Now Western Québec. Now Quebec. Now Canada
-Now the world

It requires staff.. and requires research and writers and all sorts of aide. To ask an on-air guy to do a 4 hour show, plus 2 hours prep and 2 hours of post show prep for the next day.. is enough.. Now how do you ask him to do another 8 hours or more of research on the 100 other sports to stay relevant?
How do you ask Creech to come in for 8, be on air at 10.,.. finish at 2. stay until 4 to prep for the next day.. go home.. deal with his wife and kids.. and spend all evening long watching sports and getting on every info source to see what is happening in the world! He would be divorced inside a week.

TSN radio needed 8 on air guys and 8 off air just feeding the on-air guys info, stories and so on.

16 people directly related to the broadcast is not real.. Now add 4 producers, sound controllers/engineers (Although they can be the producers as well).. Now add 3-4 staffers for broadcast of games.

a TSN1200 with 24-25 on-air/support of on-air .. virtually impossible. Unless audienceship is a solid 100,000. If not more..

in a city of 1,000,000. In a region of 1.5 M.. with 53 stations and cell phones in everyone's hand.

It is on par with awarding an NHL team to Kingston.

 

[BankStreetParade]

Unfortunately there is not enough content in Ottawa to fill 12 straight hours of local sports radio. I think following the TSN1050 model of a morning show and an afternoon drive show. The big benefit 1050 has is their drive show has one host and 2 guys who are contracted on the TV side.

If TSN doesn’t keep the Sens broadcast rights beyond the current contract 1200 will be shuttered.

Nor should there be as it's almost impossible to fill 12 hours of airtime covering any topic. But they have a pretty large pool of contracted talent. Why don't they maximize the use of that talent by creating shows with broad market appeal instead of committing local talent to cover local sports? You can still do that piece but on a smaller scale. Say, a tight 2 hour show every day that's jam packed with local sports coverage. The other 3-4 hours of primetime listenership can be dedicated to a "national" show with the best of the TSN talent pool.

They have the resources and the creative power at their disposal to come up with a winning formula. Podcasts with millions of listeners per episode didn't just wake up one day with hundreds of millions of production dollars at their disposal to create the great content they do. Even if they are slightly different formats, the premise remains the same.

But who knows? Maybe it's a little too late in the game for meaningful change and they're just waiting for the right moment to call it quits.

 

[Daffy]

-there is more than enough. You have Ottawa with the SENS, The REDBLACKS, THE 67'S, THE BLACK JACKS, ATHLETICO.. You have Carleton, U OF O. You have 2 junior A and B leagues.. you have independent league baseball..

-Now add the ones and twos off.. single day, single week events that may come..

-Now Eastern Ontario,
-Now Ontario, Now Western Québec. Now Quebec. Now Canada
-Now the world

It requires staff.. and requires research and writers and all sorts of aide. To ask an on-air guy to do a 4 hour show, plus 2 hours prep and 2 hours of post show prep for the next day.. is enough.. Now how do you ask him to do another 8 hours or more of research on the 100 other sports to stay relevant?
How do you ask Creech to come in for 8, be on air at 10.,.. finish at 2. stay until 4 to prep for the next day.. go home.. deal with his wife and kids.. and spend all evening long watching sports and getting on every info source to see what is happening in the world! He would be divorced inside a week.

TSN radio needed 8 on air guys and 8 off air just feeding the on-air guys info, stories and so on.

16 people directly related to the broadcast is not real.. Now add 4 producers, sound controllers/engineers (Although they can be the producers as well).. Now add 3-4 staffers for broadcast of games.

a TSN1200 with 24-25 on-air/support of on-air .. virtually impossible. Unless audienceship is a solid 100,000. If not more..

in a city of 1,000,000. In a region of 1.5 M.. with 53 stations and cell phones in everyone's hand.

It is on par with awarding an NHL team to Kingston.

God forbid someone with a family have to work an 8 hour shift lol

 

[Golden_Jet]

If anything is redundant... its radio people doing a second play by play for like 60 games televised by the same organization that owns the station.

Some people don’t have Cable and radio is how they take in a game. I assume.

 

[Beech]

God forbid someone with a family have to work an 8 hour shift lol

no..it is not the 8 hour shift.. that they do..

It is adding a second 8 hours to their work day....

this, is what is being missed.. they do their 8.. then they either stop or have do another 8 to stay relevant..

when they stop.. they stagnate.. the next day, we get "Hmms and Haws". It is obvious they did nothing the day before to keep up.

when they do put in 16 hours... it becomes taxing.. and you can hear it in their voices and in their curt attitudes and rising level of anger at callers and texters.. Some of the younger ones (Hello Mattie Vowels..) will explode.

they are in an impossible position. The nature of the set-up asks one of two things
1) a 16 hour day
2) added staff

1) is impossible. 2) is impossible without money.. it leaves them with lay-offs and possible closure.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Who’s on with JR today, did they say anything?

 

[Beech]

Some people don’t have Cable and radio is how they take in a game. I assume.

or it is from the 1920's when we only had radio. And by the time TSN came around in the mid 1980's, we were 60 years in.. By the 1990's when near 100% of all games were televised. We were 70 years in..

we are still building libraries when 95% of all people use the internet.. we don't know how to quit.

 

[YouGotAStuGoing]

or it is from the 1920's when we only had radio. And by the time TSN came around in the mid 1980's, we were 60 years in.. By the 1990's when near 100% of all games were televised. We were 70 years in..

we are still building libraries when 95% of all people use the internet.. we don't know how to quit.

Libraries have so many more uses than basic research. Really not an apt or fair comparison.

 

[Tuna99]

Local is the thing people want the most now in the world and it’s also the rarest of experiences because large corporations aren’t set up to be localized - local comes down to actual locals making the investment to create an experience we value. This ihas nothing to do with the talent on 1200 and everything to do with large corporations having really no interest in local connection - so if we want local it’ll be up to a young enterprising voice to create it between podcast and radio.

Local radio (local podcast) isn’t dead - it’s just not something Bell wants to do.

Anyways how these broadcasters trest their people who given them years of service without giving them a sign off shows how cold they are. They don’t give a f***, but we do so something good will come from this

 

[Icelevel]

Was there a morning show today?
Edit: ok looks like there was.
JR and Lloyd. Addresses Versage and simmer termination.

Mornings Hour 1

Steve Lloyd joins TSN Mornings with JR, Redblacks home opener, hot donut crispy sandwich, Blue Jays, Playboy mansion, US Open at the LA Country Club and NHL buyout season starts Friday.

www.tsn.ca

 

[Beech]

Libraries have so many more uses than basic research. Really not an apt or fair comparison.

back to a library fight. we had it 2- 3 years ago.

Libraries are like baseball diamonds in parks.. you pluck them in by habit.

politicians do the ground breaking for the Library.. the opening ceremony.. the local community association is there.. everyone feels good. we feel civilized and advanced.. then they sit empty.. we pay a small fortune for the lease and maintenance. We further employ more workers.. and we re happy. Because that's what we do.

Baseball diamonds are what parks are suppose to have!. no one plays baseball much anymore.. they sit and decay.. But that is what we do.

2 baseball diamond in my neck of the woods.. no one ever plays.. However, they have been serving a great use!!! Cricket.. I kid you not, people, principally of south Asian heritage, get together and play cricket.

Anyone into cricket, show up at Four Season park in RRS and at Walter Upton Collins park, and you can have your cricket game..

Future park developments will be smart enough to replace baseball diamonds with cricket grounds or soccer fields. But, 20 years ago, a 50 year old white Anglo male, put a baseball diamond in the park he designed.. it is what he knew.

parks build south or Earl Armstrong in RRS have soccer fields and no baseball diamonds.. they are more recent developments.

 

[YouGotAStuGoing]

politicians do the ground breaking for the Library.. the opening ceremony.. the local community association is there.. everyone feels good. we feel civilized and advanced.. then they sit empty.. we pay a small fortune for the lease and maintenance. We further employ more workers.. and we re happy. Because that's what we do.

Libraries don't sit empty, though. They're used for so many reasons, including access to computers, printers and Internet for those who don't have it at home, leisure reading, community gathering spots. Depending on which branch, they have tools like musical instruments, video games, music and 3D printers for rent. And importantly, they're one of very few places left where you're not expected to spend money to be there.

Community building and free access are the common points with radio. As Ian Mendes pointed out on Twitter yesterday, radio is a terrific medium to build an intimate connection with the listener that you just don't get on broadcast. It's a damn shame that community building is seen as expendable because it doesn't turn a profit.

 

[GCK]

-there is more than enough. You have Ottawa with the SENS, The REDBLACKS, THE 67'S, THE BLACK JACKS, ATHLETICO.. You have Carleton, U OF O. You have 2 junior A and B leagues.. you have independent league baseball..

-Now add the ones and twos off.. single day, single week events that may come..

-Now Eastern Ontario,
-Now Ontario, Now Western Québec. Now Quebec. Now Canada
-Now the world

It requires staff.. and requires research and writers and all sorts of aide. To ask an on-air guy to do a 4 hour show, plus 2 hours prep and 2 hours of post show prep for the next day.. is enough.. Now how do you ask him to do another 8 hours or more of research on the 100 other sports to stay relevant?
How do you ask Creech to come in for 8, be on air at 10.,.. finish at 2. stay until 4 to prep for the next day.. go home.. deal with his wife and kids.. and spend all evening long watching sports and getting on every info source to see what is happening in the world! He would be divorced inside a week.

TSN radio needed 8 on air guys and 8 off air just feeding the on-air guys info, stories and so on.

16 people directly related to the broadcast is not real.. Now add 4 producers, sound controllers/engineers (Although they can be the producers as well).. Now add 3-4 staffers for broadcast of games.

a TSN1200 with 24-25 on-air/support of on-air .. virtually impossible. Unless audienceship is a solid 100,000. If not more..

in a city of 1,000,000. In a region of 1.5 M.. with 53 stations and cell phones in everyone's hand.

It is on par with awarding an NHL team to Kingston.

Lol. USports, CEBL, yup that’ll draw in the listeners.

Nor should there be as it's almost impossible to fill 12 hours of airtime covering any topic. But they have a pretty large pool of contracted talent. Why don't they maximize the use of that talent by creating shows with broad market appeal instead of committing local talent to cover local sports? You can still do that piece but on a smaller scale. Say, a tight 2 hour show every day that's jam packed with local sports coverage. The other 3-4 hours of primetime listenership can be dedicated to a "national" show with the best of the TSN talent pool.

They have the resources and the creative power at their disposal to come up with a winning formula. Podcasts with millions of listeners per episode didn't just wake up one day with hundreds of millions of production dollars at their disposal to create the great content they do. Even if they are slightly different formats, the premise remains the same.

But who knows? Maybe it's a little too late in the game for meaningful change and they're just waiting for the right moment to call it quits.

People care about the Sens. Without an NHL team there is no sports radio here. People don’t care about minor league or women’s sports on a broad scale.

 

[BankStreetParade]

People care about the Sens. Without an NHL team there is no sports radio here. People don’t care about minor league or women’s sports on a broad scale.

Fans of the Sens generally like hockey. A "national" show would cover hockey across the entire NHL and instead of having some local hacks give you their flat takes on the issues, you could hear from the best pool of talent in TSN's employ. And then leave the local personalities to do a tight 2hr local show plus the usual pre- and post-game coverage when the Sens are playing.