HF Habs: The official 2023-2024 tank thread

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The ripple effect would also be great (trading away lesser defenseman for help offensively). I do not care if left handed or right handed.
Again, as always, people make this look and sound SOOO easy..

You yourself call them 'lesser defenseman' so by default the 'offensive help' youre trying to miraculously obtain and becomes a top6 player won't be as good as what we could possibly draft in one of these forwards in this very draft

I really hate to break it to some people lol but they are NOT drafting a defenseman
It's pretty clear
 
And a lot of people want to draft the injured player. Nothing against the kid, he is a hell of a hockey player but why ask for trouble? Durability should be in the top 5 quality we are looking for in a prospect.
Who is the injured player?
 
Again, as always, people make this look and sound SOOO easy..

You yourself call them 'lesser defenseman' so by default the 'offensive help' youre trying to miraculously obtain and becomes a top6 player won't be as good as what we could possibly draft in one of these forwards in this very draft

I really hate to break it to some people lol but they are NOT drafting a defenseman
It's pretty clear
Yeah the only way they draft a D is if they get 7 and Celebrini, Demidov, Lindstrom, Catton, Helenius, and Iginla are the first 6 players taken which is highly unlikely seeing that every draft has at least 1 D taken in the top 5
 
Things are going as planned when the so called 4th line looked the best. lol
Yes
Flush ALLLLLL the work we're doing and building the last couple years down the toilet because of a loss on a back to back in the road with a relatively still super young team with a handful of shitty vets were still getting rid of and borderline NHL goalie..

Even with you trying to be 'clever', yes, thing are going perfectly as planned whether you have the ability to see it or not
 
Yeah the only way they draft a D is if they get 7 and Celebrini, Demidov, Lindstrom, Catton, Helenius, and Iginla are the first 6 players taken which is highly unlikely seeing that every draft has at least 1 D taken in the top 5
This is the only way, exactly
Basically what happened to us last year,
But this time a couple D's will push some F's our way and THIS time, we will luck out nabbing a top 5 F prospect to help complete the rebuild

Drafting a D feels like we'd be extending the rebuild to be quite honest
And it's clear the sentiment with the team were pretty done with finishing dead last after this year
 
This is the only way, exactly
Basically what happened to us last year,
But this time a couple D's will push some F's our way and THIS time, we will luck out nabbing a top 5 F prospect to help complete the rebuild

Drafting a D feels like we'd be extending the rebuild to be quite honest
And it's clear the sentiment with the team were pretty done with finishing dead last after this year

This year the top 4 will actually have dmen in it. I will be very very surprised if there's not a single dman in the top 4 and wont be surprised at all if there's two. I expect at least 4 dmen in the top 10. 5 is not impossible at all.
 
Yes
Flush ALLLLLL the work we're doing and building the last couple years down the toilet because of a loss on a back to back in the road with a relatively still super young team with a handful of shitty vets were still getting rid of and borderline NHL goalie..

Even with you trying to be 'clever', yes, thing are going perfectly as planned whether you have the ability to see it or not
What the f*** you talking about? it's a planned tank,it's going alright,could do better but that's always the case. Don't get why you're going all ballistic,just plain nuts I guess.

And I see you attract the like-minded too. lol
 
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Yeah the only way they draft a D is if they get 7 and Celebrini, Demidov, Lindstrom, Catton, Helenius, and Iginla are the first 6 players taken which is highly unlikely seeing that every draft has at least 1 D taken in the top 5
There's also the chance that they do something like package Mailloux and Winnipeg's 1st for a "star" forward which then opens up the possibility of drafting a D.
 
D or F, they should be targeting a player who can slot into the top 5 (3F2D).

I see Mack and Demidov and maybe 2 or 3 D who would do this.

After that, they’re into depth, so F makes sense. They need 2nd line F more than 2nd pairing D.

… so, top 5 pick - expect any position. Outside top 5 - expect a forward.
 
I like Dickinson but takeover offensively, I don't see that.. I think his offensive potential is higher than Guhle, mainly due to the shot, but outside of that, he's not a creative playmaker or puck mover.

This is the last very valuable pick in the chamber of the rebuild, I don't think pushing Guhle down to pairing 2, Xhekaj to 3, and basically banishing Hutson, Engstrom and Struble from the future of the team makes the most sense.

There's a hole up front and Lindstrom or Demidov fill that and can be part of the core growing in D+2.
He is not a Cale Makar or Quinn Hughes but he is way more dominant offensively than you give him credit for. As you mentioned his shot is very good, he also has great mobility and he is a beast defensively. His profile is exactly what people want from a legit #1 defender, good size, good physicality, good shot, good skating and making smart decision. Contrary to what some here seem to believe these type of player can completely turn around a franchise.
At SOME point we'll have to pick up a high end forward... Something has to give. We cannot go forward with our team build without another F piece, it's glaring. It's evident when you watch our 3 other lines on the ice in the current make up of the team; nothing happens.

We don't have another piece to play with Dach (hoping he can stay healthy btw), we are lacking in that department.
At some point, it's about having the best players. I do want more offense believe me and I would love a dominant forward or at least a more balanced offense that being said it is not so smart to ONLY fix ourself and pigeon hole ourselves into selecting a forward at all cost. We already made similar mistake in the past by focusing on drafting a Center at all cost and overlooking way better player that could be core pieces now.

Again, as always, people make this look and sound SOOO easy..

You yourself call them 'lesser defenseman' so by default the 'offensive help' youre trying to miraculously obtain and becomes a top6 player won't be as good as what we could possibly draft in one of these forwards in this very draft

I really hate to break it to some people lol but they are NOT drafting a defenseman
It's pretty clear
I do not make it soooo easy as you pointed out but I do believe this fixation on drafting a forward at all cost is clouding some people judgement on the players available. I never claimed we should draft a defenseman and ignore a forward for the sake of it. It's about making sure we get the best player out of this draft and not look at this draft specifically but the bigger picture, we need a core piece that is a very valuable piece and a franchise defenseman is one. I did not claim all other defenders in this draft are like that, I pointed out ONE guy that clearly stand out above all which is Sam Dickinson.

I will clarify some thoughts.

1 - I would rather get a franchise forward than a franchise defenseman (I also have like the majority of you a ton of good forwards in mind for this year)
2- As of today I have Celebrini and Dickinson as both on a class of their own as franchise defining players. (franchise C and franchise D) with Demidov potentially taking over Dickinson with the remaining months (I want to see him versus better opposition)
3 - Demidov and Lindstrom have a lot of great qualities and I would love them to be part of the habs but they are not perfect and yes watching Demidov skate around MHL/VHL defenders like they don't exist is a fun watch but I have some questions marks about him playing versus more structured opposition. I would LOVE the habs to draft a forward to bring some excitement like I wanted Michkov or Leonard last year but the Habs decided to go a different route. I think Dickinson for instance is twice the player that is Reinbacher but that is my opinion as for the left handed versus right handed it does not mater if you can draft a franchise defenseman.
4- Trading a D for help offensively is not easy but some people here make it seems like it is the hardest thing to do ever which is not the case, just look at some of the trade of the past few seasons, Reinhart, Tkachuk, Kadri, Duchene, PLD, Laine, Zibanejad, Eichel, Stone, Hagel, Verhaeghe, Marchessault even our own top forward like Suzuki were attained through trades at some point.
5- As for the lesser d talk it is bit rhetorical and quite contradictory to say why would anybody would want one of our "lesser asset" while praising we have a good enough pool of defenseman. It's one or the other, if we have a good pool of defenseman than other team would love to acquire one of them and on the opposite if we don't have a good defense pool we should look to improve it. I personally do not believe that quantity > quality, it's not because we have the like of Harris, Hutson, Trudeau, Engstrom, etc that we cannot find better defenseman and refuse to potentially get a franchise defenseman.
 
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At some point yes. The Habs badly need to add talent upfront. Either via UFA or trade. It's very thin outside of the 1st line and i am not a fan of Dach injuries so far.

I don't think it's as badly as we are thinking because Dach is gone.. Newhook is playing out of position.. and Roy has to play with Armia/Anderson on the other wing.

Slafkovsky-Suzuki-Caufield
Lindstrom or Demidov - Dach - Roy
Newhook - Beck - XX

Like at best we could push Roy down to line 3, but there's limited room in our top 9 based on current development trends and pick projections.

Perhaps not but the large amount of D prospects need to be dealt with. They won't all play for the Habs.

They won't, that's for sure.. but I don't see it as dire as some people frame it to be (not you particularly, btw, your comment just happened to be one where I could springboard this discussion).
 
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Amen. Defense will be just fine.

Guhle-Mailloux
Hutson-Reinbacher
Struble-Baron
Xhekaj-Konyushkov
Engstrom-Harris
The man, the myth, the legend Kieran Ruscheinski (not to be confused with the lesser Kevin Korchinski)

Obviously some of those guys will miss but there's enough depth and enough of a little bit of everything to build a strong defense capable of winning a champ. We can also add to that in the 2nd round or at the end of the first round this year and next.

Our 1st overall pick should ideally not be traded and should be used to draft a forward with clear elite potential.

Unfortunately, there are no no1 D in that group. You have 1, 2 max, guys in there that have a realistic shot at being a top pair D, and maybe 3/4 more that have a top 4 potential. Some have more chance to develop a "specialist" role then being well rounded players. In the end, that group of player will need to work as a unit to succeed (and stay healthy).
 
Unfortunately, there are no no1 D in that group. You have 1, 2 max, guys in there that have a realistic shot at being a top pair D, and maybe 3/4 more that have a top 4 potential. Some have more chance to develop a "specialist" role then being well rounded players. In the end, that group of player will need to work as a unit to succeed (and stay healthy).

Pretty early to write off Guhle and Reinbacher.
 
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Unfortunately, there are no no1 D in that group. You have 1, 2 max, guys in there that have a realistic shot at being a top pair D, and maybe 3/4 more that have a top 4 potential. Some have more chance to develop a "specialist" role then being well rounded players. In the end, that group of player will need to work as a unit to succeed (and stay healthy).
There's no number 1 forward in our group either outside of maybe Slaf. I like Suzuki and Caufield but if they are your best forwards you wont win a cup unless guys like Marchesseault and Stephenson kill it for you one playoffs run. We need more help up front than on the back.
 
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I don't think it's as badly as we are thinking because Dach is gone.. Newhook is playing out of position.. and Roy has to play with Armia/Anderson on the other wing.

Slafkovsky-Suzuki-Caufield
Lindstrom or Demidov - Dach - Roy
Newhook - Beck - XX

Like at best we could push Roy down to line 3, but there's limited room in our top 9 based on current development trends and pick projections.



They won't, that's for sure.. but I don't see it as dire as some people frame it to be (not you particularly, btw, your comment just happened to be one where I could springboard this discussion).
Based on the current hearsay (I don't know the draft well enough) it seems like we'll have to tank well and get lucky in the lottery (usually less than 50% chance of not falling back a spot or two from regular season finishing position) to be able to get one of Lindstrom or Demidov. Would you agree?

But, there seem to be a lot of good prospects:

forwards:

Celebrini
Demidov
Lindstrom

Eiserman
Helenius
Iginla


Dmen:

Saliyev
Parekh

Levshunov
Dickinson
 
I don't think it's as badly as we are thinking because Dach is gone.. Newhook is playing out of position.. and Roy has to play with Armia/Anderson on the other wing.

Slafkovsky-Suzuki-Caufield
Lindstrom or Demidov - Dach - Roy
Newhook - Beck - XX

Like at best we could push Roy down to line 3, but there's limited room in our top 9 based on current development trends and pick projections.



They won't, that's for sure.. but I don't see it as dire as some people frame it to be (not you particularly, btw, your comment just happened to be one where I could springboard this discussion).

Projecting in the future, and base on conservative projection, I think you are looking more at this if you want to have a winning team:

Slaf - Suzuki - CC
XX - Dach - YY
Newhook - Beck - Roy


Player XX can be someone from this year.'s draft like you suggested. And I think YY would be someone traded like Dach/Newhook. Now, Newhook and player YY/XX can be interchangeable, but Roy's (while he impressed me a lot so far) I feel he will be better suited for a 3rd line role with good linemates.
 
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