HF Habs: The official 2023-2024 tank thread

[WeThreeKings]

I dont think newhook coming back is really going to make a difference.

It will make more of a difference than the alternatives in the top 6.

 

[Naslundforever]

We still have another year. Majority of Bergevin's vet contracts will be done summer of 2025 allowing us to trade them next TD, or allow them to walk away via UFA. We'll be left with Anderson,
& Gallagher. We might even be able to trade Price, as the cap minimum goes up Arizona and Chicago in particular will need LTIRs to help reach the floor.

We will be able to buy out Gallagher in 2025 too potentially leaving only Anderson.

Summer of 2025 is when we'll finally see a new team. Hopefully one with Guhle, Hutson, Reinbacher, Mailloux, Xhekaj on D. Suzuki, Dach, Slafkovsky, Caufield, Newhook, Roy & Beck upfront. And, whoever else they're able to bring in via draft, trades & signings.

Awesome, really engrain into the young players how to be a loser with noone to learn from or emulate another full year. Hockey is played in excel spread sheets and hockey forums after all, and has no entertainment value for fans either. Players spawn like in video games and play to their stats with instant chemistry and habits I guess.

Everything sucks I hate everything.

 

[Habitant#1]

It’s felt like the Habs have been one key injury away from total collapse for six weeks now. Hopefully the Monahan trade has that effect!

I just hope they don’t ride Suzuki for 28minutes a night from now.

 

[Habitant#1]

We've had 3 top 5 picks to build around. Including a first overall.

On paper this sounds amazing. However in reality the Habs first overall was in one of the weakest drafts of the decade and they took a bunt with the 5th overall.

And unless the Habs start losing a lot more games it doesn’t look like a truly elite player will be available where they draft this year.

It’s very possible the Habs still need to tank next season.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Awesome, really engrain into the young players how to be a loser with noone to learn from or emulate another full year. Hockey is played in excel spread sheets and hockey forums after all, and has no entertainment value for fans either. Players spawn like in video games and play to their stats with instant chemistry and habits I guess.

Everything sucks I hate everything.

Rebuilding teams lose before they win. That’s how it works. Even the best players like Yzerman, Sakic and Lemieux played on terrible clubs and went on to win cups.

I think we’re on the right path overall. Depth of several really good players coming up. I just hope we’ve got at least one superstar out of this.

 

[Captain Mountain]

Awesome, really engrain into the young players how to be a loser with noone to learn from or emulate another full year. Hockey is played in excel spread sheets and hockey forums after all, and has no entertainment value for fans either. Players spawn like in video games and play to their stats with instant chemistry and habits I guess.

Everything sucks I hate everything.

Is this a criticism, or just venting about watching bad team?

I can understand the latter, but the former doesn't make much sense.

For one, Montreal hasn't done nearly as much losing as other rebuilding teams, especially cup winners. Some posters will make the frankly dumb argument that nothing after 2017 counts, but Montreal almost made the playoffs in 2019, made the playoffs in 2020 and made the cup finals in 2021. Specifically, Caufield and Suzuki have cup finals experience and saw what the price that needs to be paid to win is.

For another, Montreal's has also been paying the price going for it from 2019-2021 cost (together with Bergevin mismanagement). They haven't had the option to be competitive because they've been capped out without good players. Moves to improve the team in the present have been almost impossible for the Habs given their situation.

Also, the idea that Montreal doesn't have vets to emulate or learn from is asinine, especially when compared to successful rebuilds.

Montreal is an organization digging itself out of a very deep hole, and that takes time.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Is this a criticism, or just venting about watching bad team?

I can understand the latter, but the former doesn't make much sense.

For one, Montreal hasn't done nearly as much losing as other rebuilding teams, especially cup winners. Some posters will make the frankly dumb argument that nothing after 2017 counts, but Montreal almost made the playoffs in 2019, made the playoffs in 2020 and made the cup finals in 2021. Specifically, Caufield and Suzuki have cup finals experience and saw what the price that needs to be paid to win is.

For another, Montreal's has also been paying the price going for it from 2019-2021 cost (together with Bergevin mismanagement). They haven't had the option to be competitive because they've been capped out without good players. Moves to improve the team in the present have been almost impossible for the Habs given their situation.

Also, the idea that Montreal doesn't have vets to emulate or learn from is asinine, especially when compared to successful rebuilds.

Montreal is an organization digging itself out of a very deep hole, and that takes time.

Want real pain? How about Higgins/McD for Gomez.

Quick fixes don’t work.

 

[Naslundforever]

Is this a criticism, or just venting about watching bad team?

I can understand the latter, but the former doesn't make much sense.

For one, Montreal hasn't done nearly as much losing as other rebuilding teams, especially cup winners. Some posters will make the frankly dumb argument that nothing after 2017 counts, but Montreal almost made the playoffs in 2019, made the playoffs in 2020 and made the cup finals in 2021. Specifically, Caufield and Suzuki have cup finals experience and saw what the price that needs to be paid to win is.

For another, Montreal's has also been paying the price going for it from 2019-2021 cost (together with Bergevin mismanagement). They haven't had the option to be competitive because they've been capped out without good players. Moves to improve the team in the present have been almost impossible for the Habs given their situation.

Also, the idea that Montreal doesn't have vets to emulate or learn from is asinine, especially when compared to successful rebuilds.

Montreal is an organization digging itself out of a very deep hole, and that takes time.

Both. I don’t think Sergachev becomes the player he is practicing and playing with hab D instead of Headman and co., nor do I think Marchand improves like he has with hab wingers. Suzuki learned that a hot HOF goalie can carry a team in the playoffs no matter how putrid the team was is about the only thing I can think of.

The comment I read on here about how hab pp sucks and has been unable to deal with pk pressure being probably related to them practising against a passive collapsing pk is an great example of what I believe to be true.

Also entertainment is easily on par with winning for me, which is a unpopular opinion it seems on here. I hope they somehow trade for, or sign, a superstar scoring forward asap, and I could not care less what it means for draft ranking.

 

[The Great Weal]

Oh my god there are 33 games left, just end this miserable season already

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Both. I don’t think Sergachev becomes the player he is practicing and playing with hab D instead of Headman and co., nor do I think Marchand improves like he has with hab wingers. Suzuki learned that a hot HOF goalie can carry a team in the playoffs no matter how putrid the team was is about the only thing I can think of.

The comment I read on here about how hab pp sucks and has been unable to deal with pk pressure being probably related to them practising against a passive collapsing pk is an great example of what I believe to be true.

Also entertainment is easily on par with winning for me, which is a unpopular opinion it seems on here. I hope they somehow trade for, or sign, a superstar scoring forward asap, and I could not care less what it means for draft ranking.

Were you entertained as we went decades without a top five pick? Were you glad when we traded for quick fixes to try to make 8th place every year?

Expansion teams have won cups since our last championship. I can tell you I didn’t enjoy watching that.

The rebuild had to happen. And we’ll at least be able to watch young players develop- hopefully as we become contenders down the road.

 

[crosbyshow]

Lindstrom scares me. Already hit with the injury bug and you just know it's gonna be the same with the Habs. His style might potentially make him injury prone. We don't need Kirby Dach 2.0.

Catton or Demidov, I would be fine with if we don't win the lottery.

Yep.

I would be curious to have the data about injuries with big, tall players vs small players.



Lemieux
Lindros
Dach Etc etc

Persnnaly I have no issue at all with 5 10, 5.11 ...some of the best in history were 5.10..

...I would not be surprise that Catton will be a better player than Lidstrom

 

[Fuonki]

Also entertainment is easily on par with winning for me, which is a unpopular opinion it seems on here. I hope they somehow trade for, or sign, a superstar scoring forward asap, and I could not care less what it means for draft ranking.

Ranting about the team finally committing to a full rebuild while desperately asking for the one piece that you can only get by rebuilding is... interesting for sure.

 

[Captain Mountain]

Both. I don’t think Sergachev becomes the player he is practicing and playing with hab D instead of Headman and co., nor do I think Marchand improves like he has with hab wingers. Suzuki learned that a hot HOF goalie can carry a team in the playoffs no matter how putrid the team was is about the only thing I can think of.

The comment I read on here about how hab pp sucks and has been unable to deal with pk pressure being probably related to them practising against a passive collapsing pk is an great example of what I believe to be true.

Also entertainment is easily on par with winning for me, which is a unpopular opinion it seems on here. I hope they somehow trade for, or sign, a superstar scoring forward asap, and I could not care less what it means for draft ranking.

You don't think Sergachev becomes the player he is (a flawed #2 to #3 D) practicing with Weber and Petry? And what the hell does Marchand have to do with anything, he was a great player even going back to his rookie season learning from AHLers and peaked playing with elite talents and whose game slipped when he stopped playing with elite talent.

Teams don't exclusively practice PP or PK in simulated settings, nevermind the fact that Montreal's PP has generally been bad because of a lack of elite offensive talent. Nevermind the fact Montreal's PP has actually been pretty good the last few months and Montreal's PK has been brutal.

I get the desire to be entertained, even if its completely unfeasible and counterproductive to building a team that can win a cup. But even beyond that, this lack of perspective isn't healthy. Just cheer for another team if its so important, or find another hobby.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

No love for Eiserman… i don’t know man. You want a superstar scorer? He could be the guy

 

[Naslundforever]

Were you entertained as we went decades without a top five pick? Were you glad when we traded for quick fixes to try to make 8th place every year?

Expansion teams have won cups since our last championship. I can tell you I didn’t enjoy watching that.

The rebuild had to happen. And we’ll at least be able to watch young players develop- hopefully as we become contenders down the road.

I was entertained for the last time when Kovalev and then PK left. Not denying rebuild has to happen.

 

[Naslundforever]

Ranting about the team finally committing to a full rebuild while desperately asking for the one piece that you can only get by rebuilding is... interesting for sure.

Not true, and sorry to say there is not a single forward in the pipeline I just can’t wait to see. Caufield had me going. Hutson does (15th oa and 2nd rounder). More tanking will just make me tune out.

 

[SwiftyHab]

I think this is last draft we need to be league doormats. We've had 3 top 5 picks to build around. Including a first overall.

we also traded for a top 5 in Kirby Dach. So make that 4 top 5’ers that we got in 4 years.

We’re good. Most teams don’t get this

Just need to let some of the the plants grow now and encircle them with good soil.

 

[Naslundforever]

You don't think Sergachev becomes the player he is (a flawed #2 to #3 D) practicing with Weber and Petry? And what the hell does Marchand have to do with anything, he was a great player even going back to his rookie season learning from AHLers and peaked playing with elite talents and whose game slipped when he stopped playing with elite talent.

Teams don't exclusively practice PP or PK in simulated settings, nevermind the fact that Montreal's PP has generally been bad because of a lack of elite offensive talent. Nevermind the fact Montreal's PP has actually been pretty good the last few months and Montreal's PK has been brutal.

I get the desire to be entertained, even if its completely unfeasible and counterproductive to building a team that can win a cup. But even beyond that, this lack of perspective isn't healthy. Just cheer for another team if its so important, or find another hobby.

I don’t believe for a sec hockey is the only activity/job in the world where learning from the best is not a positive, and in the context of competitive sport it’s obvious to me.. Marchand went from good to one of the best in the game - you think playing with Drouin and Dadonov would have yielded the same player? I am quite comfortable with my assessment. And I did tune out last year for the first time in 40+ years.

 

[The Gr8 Dane]

Remind what winning culture we had before? Was Deharnais and Paciorrety instilling our win at all costs culture? Or was it subban and markov? Price? Or was it Gallagher *the warrior* who instilled this incredible winning culture around the Montreal Canadiens organisation.

Those teams won sweet f*** all , they were awful, bottom 5 rosters on paper , joke of a roster league wide where every other fanbase would point and laugh at us lmao. I DONT WANNA HEAR IT.

*winning culture*

Bailed out by a goalie for a decade isn't winning culture. Yall should thank god monty is not Price because we would still be spinning our freaking wheels in no mans land this season.

Tank is on and it better be on next year too!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Clearly people here don't wanna win a cup , its so obvious.

You just want to be entertained on a Wednesday night in February with a underdog win like we've been doing for 20 years , I get it , But you ain't winning a god dam stanley cup like that.


REBUILD


Sorry for the rant but I can't take these winning culture posts when we've been a organizational atrocity from top to bottom for years.

Remind me last time habs had a top 6 you weren't absolutely embarassed by when comparing to other teams in the league

 

[HabsForHire]

It will make more of a difference than the alternatives in the top 6.

still not enough to really make a difference in the draft order

 

[Naslundforever]

Remind what winning culture we had before? Was Deharnais and Paciorrety instilling our win at all costs culture? Or was it subban and markov? Price? Or was it Gallagher *the warrior* who instilled this incredible winning culture around the Montreal Canadiens organisation.

Those teams won sweet f*** all , they were awful, bottom 5 rosters on paper , joke of a roster league wide where every other fanbase would point and laugh at us lmao. I DONT WANNA HEAR IT.

*winning culture*

Bailed out by a goalie for a decade isn't winning culture. Yall should thank god monty is not Price because we would still be spinning our freaking wheels in no mans land this season.

Tank is on and it better be on next year too!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Clearly people here don't wanna win a cup , its so obvious.

You just want to be entertained on a Wednesday night in February with a underdog win like we've been doing for 20 years , I get it , But you ain't winning a god dam stanley cup like that.


REBUILD

The centennial (or there about) teams were both fun to watch and had one of the best attacks in the league. It’s been a while! All we’d read is how out magician 80pt scorer showed up 1/4 games (really a 360pt scorer I guess…) and how the kids (omg) partied too much…

Do we need to trade Rivet again for the dominos to fall?

 

[Captain Mountain]

I don’t believe for a sec hockey is the only activity/job in the world where learning from the best is not a positive, and in the context of competitive sport it’s obvious to me.. Marchand went from good to one of the best in the game - you think playing with Drouin and Dadonov would have yielded the same player? I am quite comfortable with my assessment. And I did tune out last year for the first time in 40+ years.

No one said otherwise, but you have to actually be in a position where you can get the best. Montreal hasn't and isn't in a position they can do that any other way than through the draft or targeting prospects.

And even ignoring that your providing a specific example that doesn't have a ton of comparables, your assessment makes no sense because your timelines are completely off. Marchand is older than both those guys.

Marchand 'developed' playing with Bergeron/Krejci and Lucic. Montreal has had players comparable to Lucic and Krejci. And you have to look at how those players developed.

I'm pretty comfortable that your assessment is working backwards to justify your frustration. Montreal has and will try to bring in guys that can play. But the best? They can't, and if that was the only way to build a team, parity wouldn't exist. You want to vent? Go ahead, but don't pretend that there's more to it than that.

 

[WeThreeKings]

still not enough to really make a difference in the draft order

It might, we are in the thick of a bunch of teams.. dressing 1 line and 3 AHL lines would make us lose more than 2 lines and 2 AHL lines.

 

[Naslundforever]

No one said otherwise, but you have to actually be in a position where you can get the best. Montreal hasn't and isn't in a position they can do that any other way than through the draft or targeting prospects.

And even ignoring that your providing a specific example that doesn't have a ton of comparables, your assessment makes no sense because your timelines are completely off. Marchand is older than both those guys.

Marchand 'developed' playing with Bergeron/Krejci and Lucic. Montreal has had players comparable to Lucic and Krejci. And you have to look at how those players developed.

I'm pretty comfortable that your assessment is working backwards to justify your frustration. Montreal has and will try to bring in guys that can play. But the best? They can't, and if that was the only way to build a team, parity wouldn't exist. You want to vent? Go ahead, but don't pretend that there's more to it than that.

You’re right I’m time travelling to make a point. I still think Coco and Suz will tune out and will want to move one once these contracts are over. I loved Radulov being here for a short while comes to mind.

Recent expansion teams were handed a competitive roster so I don’t see them as comparables…

Speaking of time travel I’d take the 84 Penguins with Mario at -33 before the (2031?) stanley cup finalist habs and Evans at +33

 

[Captain Mountain]

You’re right I’m time travelling ro make a point. I still think Coco and Suz will tune out and will want to move one once these contracts are over. I loved Radulov being here for a short while comes to mind.

Expansion teams were handed a competitive roster so I don’t see them as comparables…

Speaking of time travel I’d take the 84 Penguins with Mario at -33 before the (2031?) stanley cup finalist habs and Evans at +33

If Montreal is still a bottom 5-10 team in 2030, then we have a much bigger problem. We'll actually probably have issues if Evans is still on the team in 2031 too.