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The NHL's CTE/Suicide problem

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Fogelhund said:
Boxers, MMA... that's a different kettle of fish really. Fighting isn't a key part of what hockey is about....
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You're saying headshots are the problem.

There are headshots in NHL hockey
There are headshots in MMA
There are headshots in Boxing
There are headshots in NFL Football

You're calling for an end to fighting in hockey because of the dangers headshots cause. No problem.

What do you propose for NFL Football? MMA? Boxing? They all have headshots as well (10 times the amount actually) and lead to the same result.
 
Cams said:
Thanks for posting about this book. I will have to track it down. I do love reading about the behinds scenes stuff, especially the journey that players go through. I should note that I had trouble finding the book rec, the correct title is Conflicted Scars.
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Sorry about that my brain probably affected by concussions too .. I noticed in last year or two I can't find or remember da right words .. but I am happy that hockey has changed and my kids were not subject to da tap on da shoulder by a coach or thrown in toilet room to drink a 24 and then shaved bald and left taped on a gurney freezing at center ice naked until waking up from being passed out on alcohol .. there was so much wrong about hockey back in my day in mid 70s and early 80s .. hockey was its own religion and a ton of it was flat out wrong .. even da puck bunnies coming onto da bus to s*ck everyone off which at time i thought was great was completely immature .. those coaches were adults and they should have controlled things but da attitude back then was well I went through it when I played and whatever doesn't kill you makes you stronger kid .. wow it was a completely different world and no matter what you say it scars you for life as those memories never go away ever .. then we grow up and have wives and daughters and we realize what jerks we were
 
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"we all enjoy a good tilt." that right there those 6 words are why nothing will ever be done.

It's very simple the fans like it, and the players like it, and unless that changes especially on the players side the NHL won't do anything.

The fans and players have to force the issue and they won't because they like it, they like fighting.
 
Bettman’s lack of leadership (aside from gas lighting victims and protecting rich owners) is very upsetting.
 
Canadian Finn said:
i understand the need to feel bad for players who played in the 80s and 90s. they objectively did not know about the potential issues of their job.

but anyone currently in the NHL knows full well what they are getting paid to do.
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I respectfully disagree since the Commish denies ANY link between Hockey and CTE.
 
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and if someone chooses to believe the Commish, and close their eyes, then that is their choice.

part of being an adult is making your own choices and decisions.

no one is forcing these players to play hockey in the NHL. they want to get another, safer job, no one is stopping them!
 
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If only there was some sort of middle ground between goons needing to fight a heavyweight every single game with undiagnosed concussions from the last fight masked by booze and Percocet vs no fights at all ever. Something like normal players being allowed to fight every now and then if they want with concussion spotters and protocols where their paycheck doesn’t depend on them fighting every night.

Reaves, Rempe types need to be removed from the league, or at least in Rempes case where he’s actually effective outside the fighting limit it to 10 fights a year or something.
 
MilkofthePoppy said:
Whatever happened to Gary Cooper? The strong, silent type.
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Going way back to early Sopranos

hfman said:
You're saying headshots are the problem.

There are headshots in NHL hockey
There are headshots in MMA
There are headshots in Boxing
There are headshots in NFL Football

You're calling for an end to fighting in hockey because of the dangers headshots cause. No problem.

What do you propose for NFL Football? MMA? Boxing? They all have headshots as well (10 times the amount actually) and lead to the same result.
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The NFL has all but banned headshots, except for on Running backs, but it is now an ejection.
 
I don't hate fighting in the NHL but it's easily the one thing I'd miss the least if they got rid of it. But if " the NHL is going to be held responsible for this", then what about every other fighting (boxing, MMA, etc.) and contact sport (football, Aussie rules, rugby. HOCKEY, etc.). I really have no strong opinions on this but if the NHL is going to be held responsible, there are a lot of sports that will effectively be made unviable (hockey could survive without contact). BTW, RIP Chris Simon. Tough mofo. No idea how good my memory is anymore but I seem to remember him being the one guy that consistently beat Domi in fights.
 
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The Hanging Jowl said:
I don't hate fighting in the NHL but it's easily the one thing I'd miss the least if they got rid of it. But if " the NHL is going to be held responsible for this", then what about every other fighting (boxing, MMA, etc.) and contact sport (football, Aussie rules, rugby. HOCKEY, etc.). I really have no strong opinions on this but if the NHL is going to be held responsible, there are a lot of sports that will effectively be made unviable (hockey could survive without contact). BTW, RIP Chris Simon. Tough mofo. No idea how good my memory is anymore but I seem to remember him being the one guy that consistently beat Domi in fights.
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Like Domi, Simon was more than just a fighter and could play a regular shift.

RIP
 
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CTE doesn't help but most of the ex fighters that die have serious substance abuse and mental health problems that probably predate their brief NHL careers.

Also hockey enforcers, especially the ones in 2024 and beyond really don't even take much damage compared to sports like Football or Boxing. I think any defenseman playing 20+ minutes a night is at much higher risk of concussions than an enforcer who gets in a handful of 45 second fist fights in a year.
 
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I would not miss fighting at all. I just think it hinders the flow of the game.
But im used to SHL were fighting aint allowed. Clean good hits are great.
 
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Dave92 said:
CTE doesn't help but most of the ex fighters that die have serious substance abuse and mental health problems that probably predate their brief NHL careers.

Also hockey enforcers, especially the ones in 2024 and beyond really don't even take much damage compared to sports like Football or Boxing. I think any defenseman playing 20+ minutes a night is at much higher risk of concussions than an enforcer who gets in a handful of 45 second fist fights in a year.
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How often are football/boxing happening though? Early 2000s hockey had guys on their 2nd concussion that month getting in 2-4 fights a week.
 
Dekes For Days said:
Hopefully they get sued into the ground. Seems it's the only way to force pathetic organizations to start actually caring about the health and safety of their employees these days.
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These players are paid danger pay baked into the cake. The fighting has been curbed mostly so why the heck should the game do anything other than offer medical support and outreach?

The sport would be unwatchable if a certain people with a certain mindset controlled it. More examples... Outlaw scooters, balance boards, gymnastics and live in a bubble. Why should the healthcare system cover mountain climbers and downhill skiers or wrestlers and MMA injuries as well. No more swings and those damn slides are potential deathtraps. Furthermore tree climbers, how dare all of the horrible children and people involved in the above partake in such things.

Sit at home on the internet and play safe games...that burn out your eyes and cause addictions and loss of motivation and productivity.

Got it all worked out
 
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BertCorbeau said:
I think more in-game punishment could deter it as well.

I.e rather than 5 minutes, if a player fights in the first two periods he’s tossed for the rest of the game. If it’s in the third, he’s suspended for the next.

Going down a player on the bench in a game might be a deterrent for a coach managing his bench.

Fighting is so entrenched in hockey it’s a hard thing to completely remove.
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IMHO, it would not be that hard to remove/reduce fighting in the NHL.

They simply have to enforce the instigator rule every single time, and make fighting an automatic 5 minute major and a game misconduct.

The player that drops the gloves first, earns his team an extra 2 minute penalty, no questions asked.
 
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thewave said:
These players are paid danger pay baked into the cake.
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The players are paid to play hockey; bringing their unique, rare, time-limited, and non-transferable skills - mastered over decades - to generate billions in revenue for their capital overlords. They are not there to get their brains scrambled because some violence-glorifying executives are negligent in protecting their employees from avoidable, long-term, and potentially fatal health complications.
 
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Dekes For Days said:
The players are paid to play hockey; bringing their unique, rare, time-limited, and non-transferable skills - mastered over decades - to generate billions in revenue for their capital overlords. They are not there to get their brains scrambled because some violence-glorifying executives are negligent in protecting their employees from avoidable, long-term, and potentially fatal health complications.
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It's a contact sport that they started as kids knowing that the level of contact gets more intense as they progress.

The product is the hockey that people pay to go see. If the sport is not interesting it dies and nobody has jobs. That's the way it works and if there was no contact and players skating gingerly I would be done with the sport. I imagine probably half of all people would abandon the damn thing if it were soccer on ice.

They essentially did away with fighting. Job well done. Mission accomplished. What you are describing is the micromanagement of peoples lives and risks etc. I would just say stay in your lane and let the people that love it for what it is, risk and all do what they do best as you spectate and dream of micromanaging the world.
 
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thewave said:
It's a contact sport that they started as kids knowing that the level of contact gets more intense as they progress.

The product is the hockey that people pay to go see. If the sport is not interesting it dies and nobody has jobs. That's the way it works and if there was no contact and players skating gingerly I would be done with the sport. I imagine probably half of all people would abandon the damn thing if it were soccer on ice.

They essentially did away with fighting. Job well done. Mission accomplished. What you are describing is the micromanagement of peoples lives and risks etc. I would just say stay in your lane and let the people that love it for what it is, risk and all do what they do best as you spectate and dream of micromanaging the world.
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and when they inevitably get a massive class action suit, they'll have no choice, or be put out of business.
 
thewave said:
I would just say stay in your lane and let the people that love it for what it is, risk and all do what they do best as you spectate and dream of micromanaging the world.
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This can be said as much as people want, but until the league acknowledges there is a CTE problem as well as supporting these players dealing with CTE in their retirement lives (which, sadly, is generally when they are younger relative to the life expectancy), there are going to be these ethical issues until Bettman stops turning a blind eye to it.
 
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