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The NHL's CTE/Suicide problem

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Fogelhund

Fogelhund

Registered User
Sep 15, 2007
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At some point, the NHL is going to be held liable for the many cases of CTE, ex hockey players, and especially ex enforcers end up with, that unfortunately have resulted in many suicides. We all enjoy a good tilt, but the question at some point in time, is going to be at what cost? Chris Simon took his life yesterday, after long struggles related to CTE, Depression, anxiety, and more.

www.espn.com

Former NHL winger Chris Simon dies at age 52

Former NHL winger Chris Simon died by suicide at the age of 52. His family released a statement saying they strongly believed that Simon struggled "immensely from CTE."
www.espn.com www.espn.com

Probert, Boogard, Belak, Rypien, Montador, Ewen, Greg Johnson all guys who were enforcers, or fought a lot... all dead by suicide.



jamanetwork.com

Fighting and Penalty Minutes Associated With Long-term Mortality Among NHL Players

This matched cohort study examines the mortality rates and causes of death among National Hockey League enforcers compared with matched controls from 1967 to 2022.
jamanetwork.com jamanetwork.com

It should be clear, that at some point, the NHL is going to be held responsible for this, and that part of the game will need to be limited. In addition, the NHL is going to need to take head shots as a whole more seriously, as it's probable that there will be correlations drawn there too.
Click to read more...
 
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Fogelhund said:
At some point, the NHL is going to be held liable for the many cases of CTE, ex hockey players, and especially ex enforcers end up with, that unfortunately have resulted in many suicides. We all enjoy a good tilt, but the question at some point in time, is going to be at what cost? Chris Simon took his life yesterday, after long struggles related to CTE, Depression, anxiety, and more.

www.espn.com

Former NHL winger Chris Simon dies at age 52

Former NHL winger Chris Simon died by suicide at the age of 52. His family released a statement saying they strongly believed that Simon struggled "immensely from CTE."
www.espn.com www.espn.com

Probert, Boogard, Belak, Rypien, Montador, Ewen, Greg Johnson all guys who were enforcers, or fought a lot... all dead by suicide.



jamanetwork.com

Fighting and Penalty Minutes Associated With Long-term Mortality Among NHL Players

This matched cohort study examines the mortality rates and causes of death among National Hockey League enforcers compared with matched controls from 1967 to 2022.
jamanetwork.com jamanetwork.com

It should be clear, that at some point, the NHL is going to be held responsible for this, and that part of the game will need to be limited. In addition, the NHL is going to need to take head shots as a whole more seriously, as it's probable that there will be correlations drawn there too.
Click to expand...
As soon as I saw the headline on Sportsnet I immediately thought CTE before I even read it was a suicide. It's really sad. RIP.
 
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It isn't reassuring. The lack of action and accountability by the NHL is also disheartening. I believe the game is evolving away from the fighting which is sad from the entertainment standpoint but good for the health and safety of the players.

I think the NHL is trying to remove headshots, but the consistency and steps to rectify the issues are severely lacking.
 
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I'd say it already is limited. Probably will be more deaths like this but most (all) of these players are from a bygone era. NHL will pay for past mistakes but I think they're already in a place where there are barely any heavy fights anymore.

Headshots during hits is probably their biggest issue now in relation to CTE.
 
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Leaf Rocket said:
It isn't reassuring. The lack of action and accountability by the NHL is also disheartening. I believe the game is evolving away from the fighting which is sad from the entertainment standpoint but good for the health and safety of the players.

I think the NHL is trying to remove headshots, but the consistency and steps to rectify the issues are severely lacking.
Click to expand...

Yes, the game is evolving away from the fighting, but IMO, it probably needs to be banned outright, to protect the game long-term. I'm saying this as someone who enjoys that aspect of the game... but the consequences are too severe, both from lives lost, and from a pragmatic viewpoint, a liability perspective.

I think the NHL is taking steps to give the appearance of taking headshots seriously, to attempt to reduce future liabilities, but not actually doing nearly enough to eliminate it.
 
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Fogelhund said:
Yes, the game is evolving away from the fighting, but IMO, it probably needs to be banned outright, to protect the game long-term. I'm saying this as someone who enjoys that aspect of the game... but the consequences are too severe, both from lives lost, and from a pragmatic viewpoint, a liability perspective.

I think the NHL is taking steps to give the appearance of taking headshots seriously, to attempt to reduce future liabilities, but not actually doing nearly enough to eliminate it.
Click to expand...
Love a good tussle myself, hell when I played any sports, it was the physical aspect on the field and then complaining off the field :laugh: Cost me a lot of my mobility, issues that I face today. These guys playing at the highest level have faced far worse and their lives are completely changed for themselves and their family. Especially for those who have lost someone dear.

As long as the current commissioner is at the helm, fighting will remain, unfortunately. NHL standards and the way things are run are fairly dated, however, it is profitable enough for them not to sway for improvement. There is a reason why MLS is projected to take over the NHL soon.
 
As long as the NHL hands out 4 game suspensions to a thug like Rempe for a blatant elbow that leaves Siegenthaler with in all likelihood a season ending concussion, I can't take anything the NHL says they do for players health seriously.
 
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shaner8989 said:
Suing the NHL for what? Fighting?

Is every boxer gonna sue?
Is every MMA fighter gonna sue?
Is every football player gonna sue?
Is every wrestler gonna sue?

Come on guys. Fighting has been part of hockey for decades and decades.
Click to expand...

Football was almost banned in the States at one point. It will absolutely come under scrutiny.

Fighting has been part of hockey for decades, but that doesn't make it's consequences worth it. Believe it or not, we actually do evolve. Modern medicine wasn't part of our society for centuries, but here we are better off for it. Being a dinosaur and saying we always did it this way, is a very poor excuse for not making the correct changes.

Boxers, MMA... that's a different kettle of fish really. Fighting isn't a key part of what hockey is about....
 
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shaner8989 said:
Suing the NHL for what? Fighting?

Is every boxer gonna sue?
Is every MMA fighter gonna sue?
Is every football player gonna sue?
Is every wrestler gonna sue?

Come on guys. Fighting has been part of hockey for decades and decades.
Click to expand...

UFC has been sued as well due to unfair wages.
NFL has been sued by their players in the past.
WWE has been sued by their wrestlers.

Cigarettes were at one point a part of society and lauded, now? Not so much now. Fighting is slowly moving away from NHL, so it is time to evolve or more lives will be lost.
 
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The former NHLer who was a Russian player also died by suicide this week as well. It is clear that fighting and head shots have had a massively negative affect on the players lives post playing.
 
The NHL has done a lot to eliminate staged fighting from the game, and it's only cause they know a massive lawsuit is coming. I don't see them losing that lawsuit however cause at the end of the day, they're not forcing anyone to fight, they're all willing participants.
 
Leaf Rocket said:
It isn't reassuring. The lack of action and accountability by the NHL is also disheartening. I believe the game is evolving away from the fighting which is sad from the entertainment standpoint but good for the health and safety of the players.

I think the NHL is trying to remove headshots, but the consistency and steps to rectify the issues are severely lacking.
Click to expand...
Too bad so many people want more for their buck, a good hockey game and maybe see a bare knuckle brawl. If people like fights go watch UFC or MMF, hockey should be hockey.
 
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Confucius said:
Too bad so many people want more for their buck, a good hockey game and maybe see a bare knuckle brawl. If people like fights go watch UFC or MMF, hockey should be hockey.
Click to expand...
Agreed, I loved hockey for the fights and it drew me in a lot as a kid, but I am more than happy with just hockey being hockey and the increase in skill level that is brought in.

Punch Drunk Loov said:
Our entertainment isn't worth permanent Brain damage to athletes. It's a sobering thought.
Click to expand...
Agreed, for our 5 minutes of fun, could be a lifetime repercussion.
 
Confucius said:
Too bad so many people want more for their buck, a good hockey game and maybe see a bare knuckle brawl. If people like fights go watch UFC or MMF, hockey should be hockey.
Click to expand...
Exactly. I mean if I want to watch hockey, I'm not going to take in a UFC match hoping that they might stop fighting and play some hockey at some point. Fighting in hockey should be banned, it's time.
 
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Fogelhund said:
Football was almost banned in the States at one point. It will absolutely come under scrutiny.

Fighting has been part of hockey for decades, but that doesn't make it's consequences worth it. Believe it or not, we actually do evolve. Modern medicine wasn't part of our society for centuries, but here we are better off for it. Being a dinosaur and saying we always did it this way, is a very poor excuse for not making the correct changes.

Boxers, MMA... that's a different kettle of fish really. Fighting isn't a key part of what hockey is about....
Click to expand...
MMA and Boxing also arent bare knuckled and (I THINK) only do it a handful of times a year. Not 20+ times like some enforcers did.
 
How do you police the head trauma caused by dirty hits if you ban fighting from the game and heavily penalize the fighters sticking up for their hurt team mates? Makes no sense you need it in the game as a deterrent.

RIP to Simon he was one of the greats.
 
I like a good tilt, but the deaths sure are piling up and I don’t want to see a Chris Benoit type situation. I still think a rare heat of the moment fight like Iginla vs Lecavalier is fine, but I won’t miss the end of the Reaves-type enforcer.
 
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There is a different combat sport on every night of the week. UFC, PFL - Bellator, One, BKFC, Karate Combat, Boxing, Celebrity Boxing etc. Each one the participants that actively train in these environments are taking repetitive head strikes for their entire careers every day and then they go out where the purpose is to KO the other person. They don't make what pro hockey players make, but they train every day and risk it all for a lesser prize. Many of these men will develop CTE.

You do not have to fight in hockey. There are penalties put in place to protect players, there are unpaid suspensions. A player chooses to fight in hockey, like they choose to fight in BKFC. For some of them if they didn't bring it that way they wouldn't be there in the first place.

Hockey is a source of entertainment, much like those other sports. There is only so much you can do to protect the players, it is a sport with body contact. You aren't going to get more viewers making the sport softer than they already have. Violence sells and they get paid handsomely for it. Try golf or a variety of other sports if you're scared of getting jumped one or two times in a 20 year career, when even in those occasions it's probably because your being a pylon.
 
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shaner8989 said:
Suing the NHL for what? Fighting?

Is every boxer gonna sue?
Is every MMA fighter gonna sue?
Is every football player gonna sue?
Is every wrestler gonna sue?

Come on guys. Fighting has been part of hockey for decades and decades.
Click to expand...
And a good bunch of these athletes have porridge for brains by the time they hit 50, many of whom die far earlier than the life expectancy.

I don't think fighting will or can ever be outlawed in hockey. There is too much emotion involved. But I for one couldn't give a crap about fighting, so whatever. Would not deem it a loss in the least.

Throw on top the speed of these athletes than ever before, the equipment they use (elbow pads are like bricks) and the known affects of repeated blows to the head, the CTE problem is only the beginning.
 
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