The NHL embracing sports gambling was a major mistake

[Lshap]

Sure, assuming the defendant didn't have a history of ignoring injuries they had been causing customers.

Again, my point isn't to defend McDonalds. I'm just pointing out the... ahem... fluid determination of hot coffee versus too-hot coffee. A few degrees less hot and it's just normal hot coffee, even if the burns are the same. In that case, I don't see how the plaintiff could've proven liability.

As for McDonalds' history of causing injuries, I honestly don't know how much is fact versus anecdotal. If there's actual evidence supporting ongoing negligence, sure, they deserved to pay, although I'd think it would be a class-action suit rather than a one-off penalty for this woman.

 

[Midnight Judges]

These gambling shops have less integrity than a crack dealer.

If you win big, they may refuse to pay out or try to negotiate you down, at which point your options are to lawyer up (years of additional expenses) or accept the fact that your "contract" with them was all one-sided BS to begin with.

A crack dealer would get shot for that. These people screw you and get away with it.

If you hire a great lawyer and stay persistent, you get may your money.

Or the judge may let them weasel out of the terms by claiming the bet you made was a glitch in their system (yes, this has actually worked for them in court).

Of course if you lose the bet they will take your money. 100% guaranteed.

Anyway, those of you who engage in sports gambling are suckers. You are dupes. You can play the stock market and likely win. Your chances of winning against these liars and against the odds are less than 50%. So it's just corporate charity based on stupidity, arrogance, ignorance, gullibility, and addiction.

I don't know that it should be illegal, but I do know the gullible dupes who give these lying offshore douchebags money deserve to be ridiculed.

 

[Lshap]

Well, the intention is certainly the former. It's critically important to read Edward Bernays if you want to really understand (and subsequently become very depressed about ) this stuff.

You ever see this shit on Instagram where limited edition water cups are marketed to women and then they rush out to Target (or wherever) and fight over them? Over plastic cups? Yeah. That's what advertising can do.

Reminds me of the bizarre hoarding of certain items in the early days of Covid. Who knew the toilet paper marketing lobby was so powerful!

 

[JPT]

Again, my point isn't to defend McDonalds. I'm just pointing out the... ahem... fluid determination of hot coffee versus too-hot coffee. A few degrees less hot and it's just normal hot coffee, even if the burns are the same. In that case, I don't see how the plaintiff could've proven liability.

As for McDonalds' history of causing injuries, I honestly don't know how much is fact versus anecdotal. If there's actual evidence supporting ongoing negligence, sure, they deserved to pay, although I'd think it would be a class-action suit rather than a one-off penalty for this woman.

Evidence was provided in court during the lawsuit that showed a long pattern involving over 700 reported injuries. They were responded to by McDonalds with small pay outs to keep things quiet, but nothing was done to either lower the temperature of the coffee or provide warning to customers that the temperature of the coffee was high enough to cause severe burns very quickly.

That long history of injurious negligence is the reason the jury awarded so much in punitive damages. In the US, there isn't really much of a threat from regulatory agencies against corporations who knowingly or negligently cause injury. The real threat comes from civil actions and the ability for juries to award punitive damages when there is a proven pattern of negligence. That's why the "hot coffee" case is so important. It was one of the cases used to pass tort reform in several states which protects corporations from having to suffer too severely when they cause injury.

 

[ps241]

I don't gamble on sports, but I have no problem with others doing it if that's the way they want to spend their money.

My issue is with how embedded gambling has become in the broadcasts. It really takes away from the experience and cheapens the broadcast. Along with the plethora of ads all over the viewing space on the TV, now I get to see gambling BS as well. Some networks are worse than others.

It would be good if the league and broadcasters would dial back on the promotion of gambling. No issue with the legality of gambling, but for crap sake don't shove it down the throats of people interested mainly in watching the game.

This post pretty much nails it for me. I have been to Vegas over 20 times and have yet to lay a bet. Not for high horse reasons, I just don’t get dopamine/pleasure from gambling.

The ads are so over the top intrusive to the point its degrading the viewing experience for me. I am watching less hockey on tv now, and when I do watch its usually on delay so I can fast forward.

 

[Ghost of Murph]

This post pretty much nails it for me. I have been to Vegas over 20 times and have yet to lay a bet. Not for high horse reasons, I just don’t get dopamine/pleasure from gambling.

The ads are so over the top intrusive to the point its degrading the viewing experience for me. I am watching less hockey on tv now, and when I do watch its usually on delay so I can fast forward.

You mean you are not looking forward to something like this? Some broadcasts are not too far away from it once you factor in all the betting stuff, ads on the ice, boards, glass, screen crawler, etc.

 

[MMC]

Why should the NHL’s job be protecting grown adults from making their own stupid decisions?

 

[Voight]

Good post OP.

The league is a Ponzi Scheme being propped up by predatory advertising of gambling. They sold their souls for the almighty dollar and it's the fans who suffer as a result. Instead of highlights, we get gambling reports, instead of mediocre talking heads we get money lines (amazing they found something worse than Sportsnet panels to fill the time), and instead of hockey we get endless gambling commercials.

Rather than thinking about how to actually grow the game and attract fans, the league has decided that it will grow by attaching itself to the easiest money it can find in expansion and gambling. Gambling is probably shrinking fan interest if anything, and a new team is maybe 3% growth every couple of years. We've got guys in full body armour cannoning around the ice doing incredible tricks with the puck, precision, and insane athleticism, and somehow we can't sell that to people effectively? The easy money is every bit as addictive as the gambling itself, and the NHL has completely lost the plot in becoming about dollars instead of a functional hockey league.

Gambling will always happen and that's okay, but it belongs in the margins, not front and centre where it will devour everything in its path, including the league.

+ expansion fees.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

Why should the NHL’s job be protecting grown adults from making their own stupid decisions?

For me, and others in this thread, it's not about protecting grown adults. It's that the advertising for gambling has become part of the broadcast. The commentators talk about gambling info as if it's statistics from the game.

 

[DFAC]

Why should the NHL’s job be protecting grown adults from making their own stupid decisions?

Because not just adults are exposed but kids/teens as well?

 

[tarheelhockey]

I don't believe advertising creates a need. More like it creates curiosity and a sense of urgency. The difference is subtle and, I admit, kind of semantic. Think of it like sex – you already know what you like and dislike. No advertising is going to change your orientation. However, a good ad will tap into a need you already have, even if you haven't acted upon it yet. Someone attracted to the lure of gambling will more likely try online gambling if the ads make it seem fun, easy and accessible. Someone who doesn't like gambling is unlikely to care and may become turned off by the constant ads.

Using sex as the analogy, we have a pretty good body of evidence showing that people actually do change their proclivities based on exposure to adult content. Something might give a person the “ick” for a long time, but a certain amount of unskippable ads can normalize it enough to provoke curiosity. One thing leads to another and they end up with a preference, and potentially an addiction.

This immersive strategy to promote gambling — panels talking about it at intermission, live betting updates during gameplay, superstars doing commercials — is all intended to normalize gambling behavior for people who aren’t yet engaged. It follows the same method. Normalize through repetition… generate curiosity… offer an easy open door to walk through… ramp up the intensity of engagement… capitalize on a now highly immersed consumer. A certain number of those people are going to go over to addiction, even though at one point they’d have said they would have no interest in gambling (or as we’ve seen repeatedly in this thread, that they’re “too smart” to become addicted).

 

[Voight]

Why should the NHL’s job be protecting grown adults from making their own stupid decisions?

There's a lot of kids who watch these broadcasts too, you know.

Sure they can't legally gamble (there's ways around that) but if the thought of it is put in their head consistently, they're likely to start gambling as soon as their legally allowed too.

 

[333359]

I don't get why smoking ads are banned and these aren't. Alcohol is probably the worst drug of all and it is ok to advertise? I've never heard of anyone beating up their wife after smoking a pack of cigarettes or losing all their money. All vice ads should be banned and all vices should be legal.

 

[Rorschach]

I think the one sport that maybe can have associations with gambling is hockey because it's so tough to bet on. They don't score enough goals to make it easily calculable and there are so many players per team.

 

[wavaxa2]

Anyone got an over/under on when the next Black Sox type scandal will occur?

 

[frontsfan67]

I will admit, when the NHL first started partnering with these gambling sites, I was excited about it because I liked sports gambling at the time. But as more time has gone on, I think it has become abundantly clear that it has caused massive detriments towards fans, players and the game itself. And this isn't just a NHL thing, it's all NA pro sports that are guilty of this.

Just a couple of examples:

1. The Jeff Marek situation was covered in another thread, but for a quick write-up of what happened, Marek was leaking draft picks in the 2024 draft and was fired for it. This kind of stuff has been done for years, but he was fired this time because of the gambling impacts of his leaks. The Nevada Game Control Board has questioned him for if he was using insider information to help people make money, which could result in him going to jail. He was doing what insiders have done for years, but now since the NHL is in bed with gambling, it could result in him getting arrested.

2. There is a large segment of fans who have become addicted to sports gambling and often harass players if their bets lose due to players. The most recent example (that prompted me to make this thread) was this situation with the Mariners:

https://x.com/i/web/status/1818802436439785879

https://x.com/i/web/status/1818834979553452400

This isn't a new thing either. I can't remember the exact player, but I remember a player had a clear path for a TD but went down to burn out the clock rather than score the TD. This caused the over/under to not be hit, so that player received a ton of death threats on social media because of it. It's disgusting behavior that is being fueled by addiction.

3. On a similar topic to the previous one, both players and fans are ruining their lives by getting addicted to sports gambling. You've had numerous players in all sports getting suspended, with some guys getting lifetime bans from the sport and losing their livelihoods. You can say "play stupid games, win stupid prizes" all you want, but these sports are actively encouraging people to gamble on their games. I have a friend whose brother has lost thousands to gambling and is in Gambler's Anonymous to get help now.

Nothing will ever change in these sports because they're getting a ton of money to get in bed with sports gambling, but I really feel like it's a massive detriment both towards the sport and to the fans/players of the sport as well. I used to love sports gambling like 5 years ago, but the oversaturation of it and the clear detriments of it make me wish these leagues never would have embraced it in the first place.

I don’t think it’s right but they’re just copying what other leagues are doing like the nba.

They profit off this stuff good or bad and it’s a business.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Anyone got an over/under on when the next Black Sox type scandal will occur?

Well that was 8 players, and was over a hundred years ago, so no one of us will see it.

 

[frightenedinmatenum2]

My friend ended up in prison because he made a bet on a football team to win, and the kicker missed. Then when he couldn't pay, the mafia made him take the fall for one of their guys who got in trouble. He was so mad that he said when he got out he was going to off the kicker, but he cooled down about it when he met a girl.

 

[njdevils1982]

Evidence was provided in court during the lawsuit that showed a long pattern involving over 700 reported injuries. They were responded to by McDonalds with small pay outs to keep things quiet, but nothing was done to either lower the temperature of the coffee or provide warning to customers that the temperature of the coffee was high enough to cause severe burns very quickly.

That long history of injurious negligence is the reason the jury awarded so much in punitive damages. In the US, there isn't really much of a threat from regulatory agencies against corporations who knowingly or negligently cause injury. The real threat comes from civil actions and the ability for juries to award punitive damages when there is a proven pattern of negligence. That's why the "hot coffee" case is so important. It was one of the cases used to pass tort reform in several states which protects corporations from having to suffer too severely when they cause injury.

i've pondered this topic and read enough about the hot coffee story online since yesterday.


North Carolina, Alabama, Maryland, and Virginia got it right with not 'rewarding' one's own controllable actions.

there's a reason the darwin awards exist

 

[ijuka]

Evidence was provided in court during the lawsuit that showed a long pattern involving over 700 reported injuries. They were responded to by McDonalds with small pay outs to keep things quiet, but nothing was done to either lower the temperature of the coffee or provide warning to customers that the temperature of the coffee was high enough to cause severe burns very quickly.

That long history of injurious negligence is the reason the jury awarded so much in punitive damages. In the US, there isn't really much of a threat from regulatory agencies against corporations who knowingly or negligently cause injury. The real threat comes from civil actions and the ability for juries to award punitive damages when there is a proven pattern of negligence. That's why the "hot coffee" case is so important. It was one of the cases used to pass tort reform in several states which protects corporations from having to suffer too severely when they cause injury.

Bro, anyone with half a brain understands that coffee is hot. That's why you wait for it to cool down.

Why would McDonalds have to do anything? "Just don't be a dumbass" should be more than enough.

The 700 injuries are due to people being stupid, not due to McDonald doing anything wrong by giving them hot coffee.

 

[njdevils1982]

My friend ended up in prison because he made a bet on a football team to win, and the kicker missed. Then when he couldn't pay, the mafia made him take the fall for one of their guys who got in trouble. He was so mad that he said when he got out he was going to off the kicker, but he cooled down about it when he met a girl.

"LACES OUT!"

 

[JPT]

Bro, anyone with half a brain understands that coffee is hot. That's why you wait for it to cool down.

Why would McDonalds have to do anything? "Just don't be a dumbass" should be more than enough.

The 700 injuries are due to people being stupid, not due to McDonald doing anything wrong by giving them hot coffee.

Uh huh.

I've already given the basics of the case and why the jury award was appropriate. I'm done with it. It's not worth any more of my time.

 

[frightenedinmatenum2]

"LACES OUT!"

Close enough.

 

[Moist ReadOnly]

Uh huh.

I've already given the basics of the case and why the jury award was appropriate. I'm done with it. It's not worth any more of my time.

A payout for a case doesnt mean anything for more than that specific case; 700 people were very lucky; otherwise everyone would go burning themselves for a profit

and I can promise you more than 700 people have burned themselves on McDonalds coffee lol

 

[Garbageyuk]

The more concerning thing to me, despite all the gambling adds, logos on jerseys, new tv contract, expansion teams, and massive inflation going on, the salary cap isn’t making any sort of massive jump that you’d expect.

It’s almost like due to inflation, a lot of folks have less money to spend on things like tickets, merchandise, and subscriptions.