The next Franchise super star forward to the NHL?

[Garl]

It’s not dominating to have the highest scoring U19 season ever in the KHL? There are like five players on that list who’ve been top 5 wingers in the NHL at one point or another and some who were top 5 that never got close to the top of the list. He’s also at an unfair disadvantage to a lot of those players because he was born in December. Still the leader.

He leads his KHL team in PPG (minimum 20 games). His totals could be higher if he didn’t play for the third worst team in the league. He’s 13th in the KHL in PPG. Bedard is 68th in the NHL.

1.It is def not dominating. Dominating means being the best in the league, or one of the best at least. Michkov is not even close at the moment, he is just a scorer on a bad team, like Tyanulin, Aberg, Gutik, Scott Wilson, Korshkov etc
Dominating is what for example Malkin did in his U20 season.

2.Michkov has 0,84 PPG at the moment.
Cherepanov had 0,87
Kaprizov 0,86
Filatov 0,85
Kuznetsov 0,84
Yakupov 0,82

Malkin had 1.02 PPG.

Now, we must also keep in mind, that Malkin did what he did in a dead puck era environment, and with his 47 pts in 46 games he was the BEST player in RSL on PPG that year. Ahead of bums like Morozov and Mozyakin.

Yakupov had his 0,82 campaign during 2012-13 lockout, so an unusually strong KHL that year.

3.Michkov plays on a bad team. That means that a)he has no competition for ice time, b)he can make mistakes without fear of benching, team has no season goals anyway. It is a little bit different from Yakupov, who played on a team, desperately trying to make playoffs, or Kuznetsov who played on a team, trying to win the cup.

Ps best U19 season in KHL belongs to
Eeli Tolvanen with 0,73 ppg
Evgeny Kuznetsov comes second with same 0,73, but less overall points
Michkov comes third with 0,67.
Both Tolvanen and Kuznetsov played on decent teams

 

[prongertheman9]

The last time Bedard & Michkov played in a real tournament together, Michkov scored 12 goals to Bedard’s 7. Anything else since then is just guesswork.

KHL talent pool is down for skaters but their goalies are suddenly the best in the world. It’s a hard league to score in.

Most the North American washouts like Weal & Spooner performed well in AHL and play more European style games but weren’t physical/defensice enough for bottom 6 work . Do you really think Bedard would be scoring 2+ PPG in the KHL? That’s not how this stuff works, at all.

So you would rather base your premise around a tournament 3 years ago where Bedard was a double underage 15 year old vs Michkov a 16 year old underager instead of drawing conclusions based on their body of work since? Not to mention Bedard had 9 points in the knockout games vs Michkov’s 5.

The actual last tournament they were both at together was the cancelled WJC and Bedard had 5 points vs Michkov’s 3 so anything else since then is guesswork.

 

[lakai17]

Ossie McIntyre

 

[Artorius Horus T]

Ossie McIntyre

not a bad pick

has scored about 30%(26) of his teams goals
and contributed to almost 50%(47) of his teams goals

 

[Garl]

I don't see how it's any "uglier" than any other non-NHL league in any point in history (well post Iron Curtain). Of course all the best talent is in the NHL, and the other ones are not NHL or fringe NHL caliber, or else it'd be in the NHL, lol. Looking at top scorers to conclude a non-NHL league is awful is kind of silly, it's a list of big time Junior/AHL scorers that aren't in the NHL for one reason or another.

The SHL is some sort of mecca because the leading scorer is Ty Rattie with a career 0.69 PPG in the AHL (topped out at .811 PPG when he was already 24, which was 57th best PPG in the league with a minimum of 19 games) and who was a whopping 43rd in KHL PPG (min 14 GP) in 2019-20?

Oh, the "Ty Rattie" argument. Ok, you raise me Ty Rattie, I raise you Vladimir Tkachyov, who has the best PPG in KHL and before than had like 0,6 ppg in AHL. KHL sucks, AHL rules?

This is just cherry picking, Ty had some issues with the coach, so he was in the doghouse in KHL, it is one guy. What about Tedenby, Zohorna, Kaski, Hultstrom, M.Kempe etc.?

There are no objective reasons why KHL is superior to SHL. None.

SHL has no import limit- KHL has 3 man limit
SHL is 14 team league-KHL has 23(20 russian)
SHL is open to everyone, KHL has almost no euro players anymore

With this restrictions the salaries dont mean as much. Unless you, Warrior of time, believe that russian development system is vastly superior to swedish, there is no argument that an almost exclusively russian league is somehow superior to SHL.

 

[Garl]

The SHL pays sub-AHL salaries. It is a much weaker league.

If that is the case, then why swedish and not only swedish top ahlers move to SHL every year?

Anyway, if KHL was an open league, there would be a point, but it is not.

You are acting like it is some pure capitalism in action, when KHL teams CAN NOT SIGN MORE THAN 3! IMPORTS. And those imports are now almost exclusively canadians or americans.

I mean, KHL teams have trouble filling those 3 roster spots because there are very few players who are willing to play in Russia at the moment, and here you are, talking about salaries This fantastic salaries got a russian top team Metallurg Luke Johnson and Robin Press. They couldnt even fill 3 man limit. And 2 guys they signed are absolutely nothing special by euro standarts.

 

[MNRube]

So you would rather base your premise around a tournament 3 years ago where Bedard was a double underage 15 year old vs Michkov a 16 year old underager instead of drawing conclusions based on their body of work since? Not to mention Bedard had 9 points in the knockout games vs Michkov’s 5.

The actual last tournament they were both at together was the cancelled WJC and Bedard had 5 points vs Michkov’s 3 so anything else since then is guesswork.

Not saying Michkov > Bedard. just making sure Matbei gets his due respect as a prospect of rare quality.

It’s more a response to the:

“But he went 7th overall”

“But Ryan Spooner is a leading scorer in the KHL”

You’ll also note that I said real tournament. A cancelled tournament doesn’t count. It was incomplete.

 

[wetcoast]

You stated nothing of substance in the 4 paragraph response. I pointed out that the last time they played the same competition Michkov nearly doubled Bedard in goal-scoring and you decided to go with “something is off” and “his star hasn’t glowed quite as bright” as the more keen analysis.

I’ve never seen anyone here state that Michkov is better. It’s just annoying that a bunch of morons come in and look at KHL scoring leaders and cling to the fact that former marginal NHLers are among the leaders. Most recently it’s @WPGDEVILS .

Michkov is on a historic pace on a crap team without much help. If people can’t look past the NA players, consider he is outproducing every good Russian player currently in the NHL. It’s not that hard.

I gave my observations and you gave yours.

He went 7th in the draft and isn't in the NHL.

Your focus on his historic KHL scoring doesn't mean much as the dynamic if the league is way different now.

Michov is a great prospect and his skillset is superb yet he went 7th in the draft that's what I was pointing out and the possible reasons for it.

I have no idea why you are being so defensive and dare I say going on without being substantive

 

[WarriorofTime]

Oh, the "Ty Rattie" argument. Ok, you raise me Ty Rattie, I raise you Vladimir Tkachyov, who has the best PPG in KHL and before than had like 0,6 ppg in AHL. KHL sucks, AHL rules?

He spent one season in North America… he’s been a top line player in the khl for a long time.

The SHL is a sub-AHL league. That’s just a fact. The transfer agreement ensures it.

 

[Garl]

He spent one season in North America… he’s been a top line player in the khl for a long time.

The SHL is a sub-AHL league. That’s just a fact. The transfer agreement ensures it.

Swedish development system must suck yes?

You are eating Eye of Ra's bread dude

 

[WarriorofTime]

If that is the case, then why swedish and not only swedish top ahlers move to SHL every year?

Anyway, if KHL was an open league, there would be a point, but it is not.

You are acting like it is some pure capitalism in action, when KHL teams CAN NOT SIGN MORE THAN 3! IMPORTS. And those imports are now almost exclusively canadians or americans.

I mean, KHL teams have trouble filling those 3 roster spots because there are very few players who are willing to play in Russia at the moment, and here you are, talking about salaries This fantastic salaries got a russian top team Metallurg Luke Johnson and Robin Press. They couldnt even fill 3 man limit. And 2 guys they signed are absolutely nothing special by euro standarts.

The lack of transfer agreement keeps higher quality domestic players in place longer. The salaries attract much better imports than Sweden. Only the Swiss league can rival the khl import quality, because Switzerland pays well and is a cool place to live but the domestic player pool stinks. The SHL is quite possibly the most overrated league in the world but a decent spot for AHL players who can’t find a spot in a veteran player rule.

Swedish development system must suck yes?

You are eating Eye of Ra's bread dude

No, there are some good programs but the player pool is not the deepest. The leagues themselves aren’t as financially vibrant and work as de-facto minor leagues for the nhl/ahl.

 

[WarriorofTime]

there is no argument that an almost exclusively russian league is somehow superior to SHL.

The 73.7 % Russian KHL vs. the 72.1 % Swedish SHL is hardly a difference at all.

 

[Artorius Horus T]

He spent one season in North America… he’s been a top line player in the khl for a long time.

The SHL is a sub-AHL league. That’s just a fact. The transfer agreement ensures it.

This is a false statement.

Even if as of now, for 2-4 years now, the level of hockey has increased in the AHL,
because more and more top 18,19, 20 year old euro skater prospects are getting plenty of
ice time and playing really well, raising the level of hockey, the same thing can
obviously say about 20, 21 year old top NA prospects.

But c'mon, yes top AHL teams obviously beats SHL teams, but the difference between top
AHL teams (average and none AHL play-offs teams) is huge and can't challenge SHL
teams.

The level of coaching and defending, system alone makes a difference, most AHL games are
still chaotic, full tilt, without much of structure, with players either trying to make a career
for themselves, or desperately reaching the NHL dream. (there's still only 2 independent
franchises in the AHL (Wolves & Bears), rest are development teams).

But that's just my take.

 

[Garl]

The 73.7 % Russian KHL vs. the 72.1 % Swedish SHL is hardly a difference at all.

3 foreign teams. You know that. Why the spectacle?

 

[Garl]

The lack of transfer agreement keeps higher quality domestic players in place longer. The salaries attract much better imports than Sweden. Only the Swiss league can rival the khl import quality, because Switzerland pays well and is a cool place to live but the domestic player pool stinks. The SHL is quite possibly the most overrated league in the world but a decent spot for AHL players who can’t find a spot in a veteran player rule.

Salaries attract much better imports, of course!
But only 3 per team.
Superstars like Luke Johnson, Giovanni Fiore, Jack Rodewald, Michal Kristof, Jesse Graham, Jeremy Bracco, Clifford Pu, Mislav Rosandic, Troy Josephs, Adam Liska etc

Again, you have

20 teams, 3 man import limit from Russia

Vs

14 teams, no limit from Sweden

Unless Sweden sucks compared to Russia in hockey this is not a KHL favoured balance

 

[Garl]

No, there are some good programs but the player pool is not the deepest. The leagues themselves aren’t as financially vibrant and work as de-facto minor leagues for the nhl/ahl.

Player pool is not deep because? Sweden cant develop players? How are they able to have 100 NHLers? Magick! Miracle!

Finance only matters in an open system. Right now, fact of having good budgets only results in russian players earning good money

Euros dont go to Russia anymore. And KHL only allows 3 imports. And not even all KHL teams can fill up this quota, even though, before SMO, all of them did. Miracle!

SHL is a minor league for AHL, but top AHL players pack their stuff and go to SHL. Because? Magick! They just hit insanity button LOL. You mentioned Rattie, he was a very bad AHLer, had to go to Sweden, to the minors, maybe one day he can get back at least some ECHL team might take him. He must visit Chimayev in the gym, maybe he can at least make it to AHL as an enforcer, because clearly, he is not good enough for AHL, LOL

 

[WarriorofTime]

Finance only matters in an open system. Right now, fact of having good budgets only results in russian players earning good money

This is an absurd statement. Money gives domestic players incentive to stay and attracts a higher quality import.

 

[Garl]

This is an absurd statement. Money gives domestic players incentive to stay and attracts a higher quality import.

Money gives domestic players incentive to stay and not leave. To where?

Attracts higher quality import? Explain why Metallurg has 2 imports? Explain why CSKA has Colby Williams as an import? Explain how Lokomotiv has 1 import? Explain, why Rosandic, Josephs and Kosmachuk were Lada's choises?

Explain how how a league with 20 teams and 3 man import limit is better than 14 team and no limit league? Russia>>>>>>>Sweden in hockey?

 

[WarriorofTime]

Money gives domestic players incentive to stay and not leave. To where?

Attracts higher quality import? Explain why Metallurg has 2 imports? Explain why CSKA has Colby Williams as an import? Explain how Lokomotiv has 1 import? Explain, why Rosandic, Josephs and Kosmachuk were Lada's choises?

Explain how how a league with 20 teams and 3 man import limit is better than 14 team and no limit league? Russia>>>>>>>Sweden in hockey?

Why does the KHL have a much higher proportion of Canadians in the League than the oh so "open" SHL? You keep screaming about import limits but have still not explained why SHL is just as domestic a league. And the kicker is that Swedes are far more scattered across the globe in various leagues than Russians, and there aren't even as many Junior or Professional players as Russians. Half the best Swedes that were forced by their government to leave the KHL didn't even go to the SHL, many went to Switzerland. Yet you keep banging the drum for "KHL = bad, only Russian league, SHL = good, the UN of Hockey Leagues". In fact, more countries are represented in the KHL than the SHL, but you know, facts are inconvenient sometimes...

You're getting very emotional for some reason, I guess not surprising given your maniacal hatred of Russian hockey players to the point that you neg every prospect in every thread in a kneejerk manner. But for whatever reason you hold the KHL and SHL to completely different standards. You make fun of KHL imports for not sticking in the NHL but make excuses for the same with SHL imports. You completely ignore the transfer agreement and its implications. I'm not sure if you even are aware about the transfer agreement. You keep ignoring economic realities when it comes to salary and how that affects behavior, I suppose SHL players all just play for the love of the game!

You can bang your fist on the table all you want but the only argument for SHL having a higher quality than the KHL is that Russian domestic players are so terrible that they completely drag the league's quality down far enough that things like money and the transfer agreement can't make up for it.

 

[MNRube]

I gave my observations and you gave yours.

He went 7th in the draft and isn't in the NHL.

Your focus on his historic KHL scoring doesn't mean much as the dynamic if the league is way different now.

Michov is a great prospect and his skillset is superb yet he went 7th in the draft that's what I was pointing out and the possible reasons for it.

I have no idea why you are being so defensive and dare I say going on without being substantive

Because there are dozens of posts here that have stated why he went 7th. He told at least 3 teams he wouldn’t report to them. He also was clearly going to stick around Russia a bit longer, something GMs (who have poor job security) have to consider out of self-interest. Carlsson & Fantilli also play a more premium position and have size.

None of this, however, takes away from his upside or resume as an elite scorer with an electrifying and original skillset.

If you follow the NBA, his comparison is Luka Doncic. He went around 4th in his draft despite being a well-known prodigy in Europe. He’s now one of the handful of best players in the world. Most fans knew he was at worst, the 2nd best player in his draft-class but there were a handful of GMs who lacked the cajones or job security to pull the trigger

It’s one thing for HF posters to rate players, it’s another for GMs whose livelihood depends on it. They are going to go for the sure thing more often than not. Especially when the risky pick won’t surface for a few years.

 

[lakai17]

not a bad pick

has scored about 30%(26) of his teams goals
and contributed to almost 50%(47) of his teams goals

I didn't really hear much on him until as of late, they gave him some exposure on a local network in Alberta very briefly. I had to give him a shout-out in this thread of course.

 

[Beukeboom]

I'll be "that" guy...Hyping up random 13 year olds based solely on stats when you don't understand the leagues they're in is a pretty stupid thing to do. These guys might google their names, find threads like this, and then see posters comment and say "player xxx should be lucky to even see AHL ice" or something in that manner. You're not meant to cope with that as a 13 year old, especially if you're not a child prodigy used to media attention.

So TS (and others) might want to think twice before posting threads like this.

I'm all about carefully discussing proper prodigies. But you have to understand the context.

For instance, Rocco Pelosi is a very interesting player, and at an age and setting which makes him ok to mention imo.

 

[viper0220]

I don't know who the next franchise player is but hopefully the Calgary Flames get him because we really f***ing need one.

 

[Garl]

Why does the KHL have a much higher proportion of Canadians in the League than the oh so "open" SHL? You keep screaming about import limits but have still not explained why SHL is just as domestic a league. And the kicker is that Swedes are far more scattered across the globe in various leagues than Russians, and there aren't even as many Junior or Professional players as Russians. Half the best Swedes that were forced by their government to leave the KHL didn't even go to the SHL, many went to Switzerland. Yet you keep banging the drum for "KHL = bad, only Russian league, SHL = good, the UN of Hockey Leagues". In fact, more countries are represented in the KHL than the SHL, but you know, facts are inconvenient sometimes...

You're getting very emotional for some reason, I guess not surprising given your maniacal hatred of Russian hockey players to the point that you neg every prospect in every thread in a kneejerk manner. But for whatever reason you hold the KHL and SHL to completely different standards. You make fun of KHL imports for not sticking in the NHL but make excuses for the same with SHL imports. You completely ignore the transfer agreement and its implications. I'm not sure if you even are aware about the transfer agreement. You keep ignoring economic realities when it comes to salary and how that affects behavior, I suppose SHL players all just play for the love of the game!

You can bang your fist on the table all you want but the only argument for SHL having a higher quality than the KHL is that Russian domestic players are so terrible that they completely drag the league's quality down far enough that things like money and the transfer agreement can't make up for it.

Not the first time we have this argument and you keep making the same mistakes, which makes me think, that you are arguing in a bad faith

So, let us see you address this points finally(I will try to mae it short)

1.KHL has 20 russian teams, SHL has 14 swedish. How in your world does KHL maintain its superiority when it has 6 more teams to fill?
2.Why some russian teams dont fill up their 3 man limit quota if from your economic theory it follows that they should easily do it?
3.Why do russian teams fill their quotas with some really unimpressive imports like Rodewald/Pu/Colby Williams etc, when there are many much better north american players in Europe?
4.Why do you keep bringing the percentage of north americans in KHL, when it is clearly affected by Kunlun ECHLers?
5.There are around 80 players from Belarus and Kazakhstan in KHL. Do you think, this countries are major talent producers? Judging by the numbers in unanimous 2nd best league in the World, must be TOP 10, challenging Czechia maybe
6.Why do you keep the "as much of a domestic league" line despite the fact that you know that the numbers are inflated by 3 non russian KHL teams? Without them, KHL is 80+% russian, and 90+% russian/belarussian/kazakhstani, do you think that KHL quality is so high because they have Barys, Minsk and espescially Kunlun?

Bonus, you insist that Russia is vastly superior to Sweden in hockey development. Please explain swedish superiority in NHL numbers while keeping in mind the "economic realities" which clearly dictate russian players to go to NHL and keeping in mind, that biggest KHL stars are NHL flops and 38 y.o Radulov who cant play in NHL anymore?

 

[WarriorofTime]

Bonus, you insist that Russia is vastly superior to Sweden in hockey development. Please explain swedish superiority in NHL numbers while keeping in mind the "economic realities" which clearly dictate russian players to go to NHL and keeping in mind, that biggest KHL stars are NHL flops and 38 y.o Radulov who cant play in NHL anymore?

No, I never said it’s “vastly superior”. That’s a strawman. It's you that has a categorical hatred of Russian hockey players, I do not have a categorical hatred of Swedish players. You are in record on Michkov, Demidov, Ryabkin, Nikishin, Silayev threads negging on all of them. You even called Silayev a "fraud". I do no such thing with Swedish or any players...

And the second point, it’s like you missed the whole point of the transfer agreement. lol. The reason Swedes are in higher NHL and AHL numbers is the same reason the SHL is a far inferior league to the KHL... and to the AHL as well.

Genuine question. Do you believe Filip Roos played in NHL games before Alexander Nikishin because he has been a better hockey player to date?