LeafsNation75
Registered User
We can cite many examples like that and others with Tavares like those who said he wouldn’t sign in Toronto, since star players won’t want to do that.
The Myth of John Tavares and Unmet Potential - by an Isles Fan
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ScaredStreit
Registered User
Toronto fans can certainly behave bitterly and inappropriately. I know several Leaf fans who were very mad at Sundin (I've lived both in both Oakville and Toronto before). Not to mention celebrating when an opposing NBA player gets injured.
Sundin also wasn't on the same level as Tavares when he left. Sundin played another 41 games, he was in the twilight of his career. While Sundin had an extremely consistent career, his peak wasn't as good as Tavares's.
What did you really expect Islander fans to do? Give the guy who left their team and lied to their faces (even if it was obvious that he was-I agree with this notion) a standing ovation? Give me a break. There's no fanbase that would have done anything differently. TWO people crossed the line-whomever threw the plastic snake on the ice and whomever threw their Tavares jersey at him. Everything else was totally fine. I'm not sure why Leaf fans are so upset about it.
Poor Tavares made $44million playing hockey for the Islanders and now their fans chant "we don't need you" at him...it's so terrible!
I lol'd. JT has gotten the Leafs real far hasn't he?
We will keep getting W's and you can keep counting JT's stats.
Pure Slaughter Value
Registered User
Good lord my fellow Islanders fans are basically making the comparison that Tavares is like Czerkawski, puts up great individual numbers but doesn't help a team win. Ugh.
Thomas Greiss and John Tavares single-handedly willed the Islanders past the Panthers in our only time out of the 1st round.
The argument that we ran everything through him and relied way too much on him which led to less success is more valid. It literally was "Stop John Tavares, stop the Islanders". That's on Snow for not hiring someone with a coaching pedigree and (possibly) wanting to make JT happy instead of mixing things up to get more success.
Trotz has put in a system and the team's assembled a group that if you stop the Barzal line, you've freed up the Nelson line. If you've stopped both lines the game is probably low-scoring because the 4th line plays a stifling type of game against the scoring lines. Third line's a mess though.
Sorry, I went off topic...
Thomas Greiss and John Tavares single-handedly willed the Islanders past the Panthers in our only time out of the 1st round.
The argument that we ran everything through him and relied way too much on him which led to less success is more valid. It literally was "Stop John Tavares, stop the Islanders". That's on Snow for not hiring someone with a coaching pedigree and (possibly) wanting to make JT happy instead of mixing things up to get more success.
Trotz has put in a system and the team's assembled a group that if you stop the Barzal line, you've freed up the Nelson line. If you've stopped both lines the game is probably low-scoring because the 4th line plays a stifling type of game against the scoring lines. Third line's a mess though.
Sorry, I went off topic...
LeafsNation75
Registered User
I wouldn’t say anything about Toronto fans considering that Islanders fans were booing O Canada at every home game when the Leafs played them in the 2002 playoffs. Never mind all the nasty things some of your fans said about Tavares wife.Toronto fans can certainly behave bitterly and inappropriately. I know several Leaf fans who were very mad at Sundin (I've lived both in both Oakville and Toronto before). Not to mention celebrating when an opposing NBA player gets injured.
Sundin also wasn't on the same level as Tavares when he left. Sundin played another 41 games, he was in the twilight of his career. While Sundin had an extremely consistent career, his peak wasn't as good as Tavares's.
What did you really expect Islander fans to do? Give the guy who left their team and lied to their faces (even if it was obvious that he was-I agree with this notion) a standing ovation? Give me a break. There's no fanbase that would have done anything differently. TWO people crossed the line-whomever threw the plastic snake on the ice and whomever threw their Tavares jersey at him. Everything else was totally fine. I'm not sure why Leaf fans are so upset about it.
Poor Tavares made $44million playing hockey for the Islanders and now their fans chant "we don't need you" at him...it's so terrible!
Tavares has definitely lived up to the billing of a #1 overall pick.
I suppose if you want to look at his performance relative to expectations though, maybe there's a case that he hasn't quite done that. He was nicknamed "the exception" in his OHL days based upon being drafted as an underage player and from what I remember, seemed to be getting hyped up to win individual trophies at the NHL level one day (which of course hasn't happened).
He has been incredibly consistent though, one of the most consistent players in the league in the past decade. He just isn't dynamic or physically gifted like the players that are in contention for scoring titles and MVPs.
I suppose if you want to look at his performance relative to expectations though, maybe there's a case that he hasn't quite done that. He was nicknamed "the exception" in his OHL days based upon being drafted as an underage player and from what I remember, seemed to be getting hyped up to win individual trophies at the NHL level one day (which of course hasn't happened).
He has been incredibly consistent though, one of the most consistent players in the league in the past decade. He just isn't dynamic or physically gifted like the players that are in contention for scoring titles and MVPs.
Merrrlin
Grab the 9 iron, Barry!
- Jul 2, 2019
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BrockLobster
Registered User
He didnt accept a "cheap deal". He was 22 yrs old and signed a 33 mil contract. Not all teams hand out 11mil a year to 22 yr olds....
PWJunior
Stay safe!
Haha, "cheap deal" is the 2nd largest deal at the time. The spin doctoring if hilarious.
ScaredStreit
Registered User
I love Toronto and Canada as a whole and loved my time there. However I'd be lying if I told you I felt safe and welcome walking past an anti-American protest at Dundas Square (I lived a few blocks away) with people burning US flags and being vitriolic. I put my head down, kept my mouth shut and walked on past. Or the time when one of my teachers told me she hated me because I was American on the first day of school (I was 11 years old). There are bad seeds everywhere.
PS: Some Leaf fans sent death threats to Debrusk's wife...and Reimer's wife.
This isn't about Isles fans vs Leaf fans...my point was that people are taking this stuff WAY too personally. This type of behavior unfortunately exists in every fanbase and people shouldn't throw stones when they live in glass houses.
BrockLobster
Registered User
Tad Mikowsky
Only Droods
Well of course you of all people wouldn’t. Anything Leafs related is above criticism in your eyes.
I have been thinking about writing this post for over a month now. I've noticed on different areas of this website, John has been disrespected or generally underrated or underappreciated.
What I've read:
- John got overpaid
- John never reached his potential
- John wasn't a great #1 pick
- John's career has been a letdown
Now just so we're clear, I am not interested in discussing how he left our team...as most Islander fans would agree, we're dissapointed. There's no way around that, even if he did give us some good years. If I had it my way, we would have hired Lou and Trotz 5 years ago and John's story with us may be completely different.
Good. That's out of the way. Lets look at some of John's stats.
I recently read in the prospects forum that a certain prospect is similar to Tavares, and it was meant as an insult. Posters claimed he isn't elite, and that you can find better players in every draft, so it's a disappointing comparison. Let's take a look:
[TABLE="class: brtb_item_table"][TBODY][TR][TD]Range[/TD][TD]Goals[/TD][TD]Assists[/TD][TD]Points[/TD][TD]P/GP[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD]2 years (164gp)[/TD][TD]2nd[/TD][TD]36th[/TD][TD]7th[/TD][TD]15th[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD]5 years (401gp)[/TD][TD]2nd[/TD][TD]22nd[/TD][TD]6th[/TD][TD]8th[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD]10 years (751gp)[/TD][TD]3rd [/TD][TD]16th[/TD][TD]7th[/TD][TD]15th[/TD][/TR][/TBODY][/TABLE]
*source: QuantHockey.com
In the last 10 years, the only players with more goals are:
- Alex Ovechkin
- Steven Stamkos
In the last 10 years, the only players with more points are:
- Sidney Crosby
- Patrick Kane
- Alex Ovechkin
- Claude Giroux
- Steven Stamkos
- Nicklas Backstrom
Take a look at that list. Can you name a player on that list who accomplished that with less help? Our Islander teams have been awful. The best players John Tavares has played with are (by P/GP in last 10 years for NYI players):
*source: NHL.com
- Thomas Vanek (only 47 gp)
- Mathew Barzal (only 1 season)
- PA Parentau
- Matt Moulsen
- Brad Boyes
- Kyle Okposo
Look at that list. Those were the best P/GP players that played for the Islanders with John over his last 10 seasons with our franchise. There is no Malkin, no Kessel, no Carlson or Backstrom, no Hedman or Kucherov, no Toews or Keith....PA Parentau and Matt Moulsen...
CONCLUSION
John Tavares has been an elite player his entire career. No one in his class of players (top scorers) over his career even come close to having as little support. Hockey is a team game, and point totals are heavily influenced by the talent around you.
How can you call his contract an overpayment? Look at his goal scoring proficiency!
- John got overpaid
Finishing top 15 in the last decade with no help, and top 3 in goals. What more can you really expect from a player, even a #1 OA pick?
- John never reached his potential
See above.
- John wasn't a great #1 pick
This one is harder to answer. I remember an unbelievable amount of excitement when we drafted him. He didn't bring us a cup, and he left, so as an Islander...well, maybe you could say his time with us was a disappointment. We didn't give him any help.
- John's career has been a letdown
However, as a player separate from the emotional aspect, I would say he's had a great career. One of the best goal scorers of the decade, and possibly of a generation. In the top 0.1% in terms of production.
I have been thinking about writing this post for over a month now. I've noticed on different areas of this website, John has been disrespected or generally underrated or underappreciated.
What I've read:
- John got overpaid
- John never reached his potential
- John wasn't a great #1 pick
- John's career has been a letdown
Now just so we're clear, I am not interested in discussing how he left our team...as most Islander fans would agree, we're dissapointed. There's no way around that, even if he did give us some good years. If I had it my way, we would have hired Lou and Trotz 5 years ago and John's story with us may be completely different.
Good. That's out of the way. Lets look at some of John's stats.
I recently read in the prospects forum that a certain prospect is similar to Tavares, and it was meant as an insult. Posters claimed he isn't elite, and that you can find better players in every draft, so it's a disappointing comparison. Let's take a look:
[TABLE="class: brtb_item_table"][TBODY][TR][TD]Range[/TD][TD]Goals[/TD][TD]Assists[/TD][TD]Points[/TD][TD]P/GP[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD]2 years (164gp)[/TD][TD]2nd[/TD][TD]36th[/TD][TD]7th[/TD][TD]15th[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD]5 years (401gp)[/TD][TD]2nd[/TD][TD]22nd[/TD][TD]6th[/TD][TD]8th[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD]10 years (751gp)[/TD][TD]3rd [/TD][TD]16th[/TD][TD]7th[/TD][TD]15th[/TD][/TR][/TBODY][/TABLE]
*source: QuantHockey.com
In the last 10 years, the only players with more goals are:
- Alex Ovechkin
- Steven Stamkos
In the last 10 years, the only players with more points are:
- Sidney Crosby
- Patrick Kane
- Alex Ovechkin
- Claude Giroux
- Steven Stamkos
- Nicklas Backstrom
Take a look at that list. Can you name a player on that list who accomplished that with less help? Our Islander teams have been awful. The best players John Tavares has played with are (by P/GP in last 10 years for NYI players):
*source: NHL.com
- Thomas Vanek (only 47 gp)
- Mathew Barzal (only 1 season)
- PA Parentau
- Matt Moulsen
- Brad Boyes
- Kyle Okposo
Look at that list. Those were the best P/GP players that played for the Islanders with John over his last 10 seasons with our franchise. There is no Malkin, no Kessel, no Carlson or Backstrom, no Hedman or Kucherov, no Toews or Keith....PA Parentau and Matt Moulsen...
CONCLUSION
John Tavares has been an elite player his entire career. No one in his class of players (top scorers) over his career even come close to having as little support. Hockey is a team game, and point totals are heavily influenced by the talent around you.
How can you call his contract an overpayment? Look at his goal scoring proficiency!
- John got overpaid
Finishing top 15 in the last decade with no help, and top 3 in goals. What more can you really expect from a player, even a #1 OA pick?
- John never reached his potential
See above.
- John wasn't a great #1 pick
This one is harder to answer. I remember an unbelievable amount of excitement when we drafted him. He didn't bring us a cup, and he left, so as an Islander...well, maybe you could say his time with us was a disappointment. We didn't give him any help.
- John's career has been a letdown
However, as a player separate from the emotional aspect, I would say he's had a great career. One of the best goal scorers of the decade, and possibly of a generation. In the top 0.1% in terms of production.
From an islanders fan LOL. You’re not fooling anyone Leaf Fan.
Wish I could say I was surprised
Merrrlin
Grab the 9 iron, Barry!
- Jul 2, 2019
- 6,768
- 6,925
Leafs are my second love now, can't lie. At least until JT retires or I convert my wife from Nova Scotia...
Pretty much this. A lot of what we do and say is based off of misrepresentation of a culture. I’ve met idiots on both sides of the border and may have been one at one point in time may be was seen as one myself.
Interestingly enough, I find that I had to take a break from these boards because of trolls or overly opinionated individuals. It became less about listening and more about your wrong mentality.
justafan22
Registered User
- Jun 22, 2014
- 11,629
- 6,252
If you look up the average career of a #1 overall pick it's Tavares.
Mick Riddleton
Terry Sawchuk had over 400 stitches in his career
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Voight
#winning
Voight
#winning
Or when he took out Gretz
Well for the record, McDavid has 1 Hart. Not multiple
That hype was warranted tho. He torched minor hockey, was granted early entry into the OHL (first player in CHL history), was Major Junior player of the year in his second season at age 16 and to cap it off, was outstanding at the 2009 world juniors.
Machinehead
HFNYR MVP
Yes but Tavares is what, 9 years older?Or when he took out Gretz
Well for the record, McDavid has 1 Hart. Not multiple
That hype was warranted tho. He torched minor hockey, was granted early entry into the OHL (first player in CHL history), was Major Junior player of the year in his second season at age 16 and to cap it off, was outstanding at the 2009 world juniors.
I agree with the rest. That's why I said he hasn't met his hype. A player hyped as much as Tavares, warranted or not, can be great and still not live up to it. It's not a condemnation.
Voight
#winning
Unfortunately for JT his peak offensive season came at the same time that Price had the best goalie season in 20 years. Otherwise he very well could have a Hart and/or Pearson
ORRFForever
Registered User
- Oct 29, 2018
- 20,847
- 11,997
Is he overrated as a player? Yes. Still, he is very good.
Is he over paid as a Leaf? Yes, but the Leafs knew what they were getting when they signed him.
P.S. I'm a Leaf fan.
Is he over paid as a Leaf? Yes, but the Leafs knew what they were getting when they signed him.
P.S. I'm a Leaf fan.
The Winter Soldier
Registered User
- Apr 4, 2011
- 71,030
- 21,383
Another rough night for JT. -3. The game may be getting too fast for Tavares. Has been victimized with some bad giveways lately also. 11M for another 5+ years.
FourRings
Registered User
I don't know how anyone can call JT overpaid. He was getting even larger offers from other teams.
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