The Mayor John Hoven joined host Jonathan Davis on the Two Man

[damacles1156]

It can't be stated enough times, this is a huge problem:

Kopitar has 3G in his last 29 NHL games, 2 of them are at ES.

Dwight King has 4G in his last 29 NHL games all at ES.

Kyle Clifford has 3G in his last 29 NHL games all at ES

Jordan Nolan 4G in his last 29 NHL games all at ES

If it takes firing a coach to correct that, then so be it. Cause the Kings can't afford Kopitar playing like this. It will doom the Franchise the length of his contract.

Crosby is labeled as a coach killer.

 

[KINGS17]

Breaking Offseason News - Dwight King given 7 year/$14,000,000 contract to keep the AAV low. "He would have gotten more on the open market." - The pragmatists.

If Dean doesn't give it to him another GM will !!!

I have always liked what King brings to the team, but his salary likely doesn't fit under the cap with all of the overpaid players currently on the roster.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Seeing the sweeping changes the Lakers made this morning has me thinking this news could be a real possibility if things go sour and the Kings miss the playoffs.

 

[The Tikkanen]

Stats aside if you can't watch a Kings game and clearly see Dwight King's foot speed is nowhere near NHL levels then there is no point in arguing. When he tries to turn it looks as though he's wearing Thermablades on his skates. He's also playing 15:01 a game which really isn't bottom 6. He's out there a lot and he rarely produces. 9.4 shooting percentage which is close to his career low. Pearson is playing 16:06 for comparison. The whole bottom 6 are producing is nice but we all know Sutter doesn't use a bottom 6 or top 6, he throws these stiffs out there at key moments of the game and that is where they absolutely do not produce and it has brought the Kings, Sutter and Lombardi to their knees. Sutter has clearly decided if he's going out he's going out with his worst players on the ice which is a strategy no coach in any sport has ever tried and for good reason.

 

[damacles1156]

Stats aside if you can't watch a Kings game and clearly see Dwight King's foot speed is nowhere near NHL levels then there is no point in arguing. When he tries to turn it looks as though he's wearing Thermablades on his skates. He's also playing 15:01 a game which really isn't bottom 6. He's out there a lot and he rarely produces. 9.4 shooting percentage which is close to his career low. Pearson is playing 16:06 for comparison. The whole bottom 6 are producing is nice but we all know Sutter doesn't use a bottom 6 or top 6, he throws these stiffs out there at key moments of the game and that is where they absolutely do not produce and it has brought the Kings, Sutter and Lombardi to their knees. Sutter has clearly decided if he's going out he's going out with his worst players on the ice which is a strategy no coach in any sport has ever tried and for good reason.

Yet the top players, continue to play the most minutes, and all critical situations.

I know you don't like Sutter, but can you at least be somewhat truthful when you write stuff like this.

When you write hyperbole like this, it makes people not want to read it, or take you seriously.

Unless you are seriously implying that Sutter should player Carter/Kopitar 25+ minutes a night, Pearson/Toffoli as well.

If that is what you're advocating, then continue.

 

[damacles1156]

You know what's really going to **** you guys off.

Sit next to the bench (if you can afford it) next home game. You will notice that Stevens/Payne handle the majority of line-changes.

I actually believe Sutter is more hands off then people think, that actually might be a problem as well.

 

[The Tikkanen]

Yet the top players, continue to play the most minutes, and all critical situations.

I know you don't like Sutter, but can you at least be somewhat truthful when you write stuff like this.

When you write hyperbole like this, it makes people not want to read it, or take you seriously.

Unless you are seriously implying that Sutter should player Carter/Kopitar 25+ minutes a night, Pearson/Toffoli as well.

If that is what you're advocating, then continue.

If you consider hyperbole the same as having an argument and then using facts to back said argument then it's even more difficult to take you seriously. Your response to my argument is an attack which is allowed as long as you are a positive poster ALL THE TIME. Then instead of responding to my argument you imply that I want Carter and Kopitar to play 25+ minutes a night even though I never mentioned either player. Dwight King needs to play less. He is playing 1/4 of the game. He is eating up minutes of a #2 LW, his stats are dreadful, his foot speed is dreadful, his shooting percentage is dreadful, his playmaking ability is dreadful, his ability to turn and chase a puck is downright awful. If adding/subtracting minutes is part of the coaches MO as far as rewarding/punishing players how do you know when Dwight King isn't playing well and then reduce his ice time? I'll wait for your response.

 

[BigKing]

RE: Tikk/Damac

Everyone knows the "best" players on this team, namely Kopitar, are more responsible for this **** season than King/Lewis/Shore.

Kopitar isn't going anywhere so, outside of continuing to say he needs to play better, where can the Kings possibly get better by making moves?

Guys like Dwight King. Even if Kopitar is the biggest issue, it doesn't mean it's cool for Nick Shore to be the worst non-enforcer forward with the puck on his stick I've ever seen. It's not the lower-level forwards fault; however, couldn't we still have better lower-level forwards outside of the greatness that was Jordan Nolan from 12-15-16 to February of 2017?

I didn't see any hyperbole in the original post RE: Dwight King. You want some hyperbole, find the post I made about Dwight a few weeks ago where I said you could of told me he died a month back and I would of believed it since I didn't notice him on the ice that entire time even though he apparently played every game.

 

[damacles1156]

RE: Tikk/Damac

Everyone knows the "best" players on this team, namely Kopitar, are more responsible for this **** season than King/Lewis/Shore.

Kopitar isn't going anywhere so, outside of continuing to say he needs to play better, where can the Kings possibly get better by making moves?

Guys like Dwight King. Even if Kopitar is the biggest issue, it doesn't mean it's cool for Nick Shore to be the worst non-enforcer forward with the puck on his stick I've ever seen. It's not the lower-level forwards fault; however, couldn't we still have better lower-level forwards outside of the greatness that was Jordan Nolan from 12-15-16 to February of 2017?

I didn't see any hyperbole in the original post RE: Dwight King. You want some hyperbole, find the post I made about Dwight a few weeks ago where I said you could of told me he died a month back and I would of believed it since I didn't notice him on the ice that entire time even though he apparently played every game.

Pointless argument really.

Dwight King is an UFA, and will no doubt have priced himself out of LA.

He most likely won't be resigned.

 

[The Tikkanen]

RE: Tikk/Damac

Everyone knows the "best" players on this team, namely Kopitar, are more responsible for this **** season than King/Lewis/Shore.

Kopitar isn't going anywhere so, outside of continuing to say he needs to play better, where can the Kings possibly get better by making moves?

Guys like Dwight King. Even if Kopitar is the biggest issue, it doesn't mean it's cool for Nick Shore to be the worst non-enforcer forward with the puck on his stick I've ever seen. It's not the lower-level forwards fault; however, couldn't we still have better lower-level forwards outside of the greatness that was Jordan Nolan from 12-15-16 to February of 2017?

I didn't see any hyperbole in the original post RE: Dwight King. You want some hyperbole, find the post I made about Dwight a few weeks ago where I said you could of told me he died a month back and I would of believed it since I didn't notice him on the ice that entire time even though he apparently played every game.

Well one of the arguments you see on here quite a bit is the bottom 6 is just fine, they aren't to blame. It's as if you say something enough times it becomes a fact. The top 6 IMO is Nolan, King, Shore, Lewis, Clifford, Dowd. These 6 players have combined for 33 goals, 45 assists and 78 points. They are a minus 24 with Dowd leading the way with his putrid -15 and they have generated 441 shots on goal. Now take those numbers and compare them to any other NHL teams bottom 6. I don't watch Ducks games but Rakell is listed as their 3C-he has 24 goals or 9 less than our bottom 6 combined. They're not fine. Washington? Their 3C listed is Lars Eller who is a plus 15 and has 10 goals or about 1/3 the entire Kings bottom 6 total. They're not fine. Chicago? They have Ryan Hartman listed as their #3LW, he has 14 goals and is a plus 9. They're not fine. What we have is some Kings fans who keep saying the bottom 6 is fine yet they don't have anything to back up their words-it's strictly an opinion with nothing to base it on. They're not fine-they're dead.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Well one of the arguments you see on here quite a bit is the bottom 6 is just fine, they aren't to blame. It's as if you say something enough times it becomes a fact. The top 6 IMO is Nolan, King, Shore, Lewis, Clifford, Dowd. These 6 players have combined for 33 goals, 45 assists and 78 points. They are a minus 24 with Dowd leading the way with his putrid -15 and they have generated 441 shots on goal. Now take those numbers and compare them to any other NHL teams bottom 6. I don't watch Ducks games but Rakell is listed as their 3C-he has 24 goals or 9 less than our bottom 6 combined. They're not fine. Washington? Their 3C listed is Lars Eller who is a plus 15 and has 10 goals or about 1/3 the entire Kings bottom 6 total. They're not fine. Chicago? They have Ryan Hartman listed as their #3LW, he has 14 goals and is a plus 9. They're not fine. What we have is some Kings fans who keep saying the bottom 6 is fine yet they don't have anything to back up their words-it's strictly an opinion with nothing to base it on. They're not fine-they're dead.

Rakell spends significant time in the top 6 as does Hartman. Eller doesn't, but cherry picking a 3C from the highest scoring team in the league doesn't make your argument.

We did this exercise last year and in comparing our bottom six to other teams the production was comparable but ours were actually better in possession. Now they're scoring more so I can't imagine it's changed.

So yes, again, the bottom six is fine. I did my homework last year, if you'd like to pick it up where I left off be my guest.

 

[KINGS17]

Rakell is the kind of player to which you give a long term contract.

Even considering his steady improvement the Ducks managed to commit to him for only six years. Well done. I am sure Rakell being an RFA helped, but it points out the success of a GM depends greatly on which of his young players receives a long term contract.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

He was also smart enough to do it just before this season when he's really blowing up. Calculated risk (low risk imo, he looked fantastic and like he was right on the cusp, though I guess he could have plateaued at 40 points).

 

[KINGS17]

He was also smart enough to do it just before this season when he's really blowing up. Calculated risk (low risk imo, he looked fantastic and like he was right on the cusp, though I guess he could have plateaued at 40 points).

Even if Rakell was only a 40-point per year player the Ducks got fantastic value having him for 6 years at a cap hit of around $3.8M.

Maybe Dean should have done this with Toffoli the last time his deal came up instead of saving so much money on the cap for Kopitar. Now even after a down year Toffoli will command more AAV this off season than he would have in the summer of 2015.

 

[The Tikkanen]

Even if Rakell was only a 40-point per year player the Ducks got fantastic value having him for 6 years at a cap hit of around $3.8M.

Maybe Dean should have done this with Toffoli the last time his deal came up instead of saving so much money on the cap for Kopitar. Now even after a down year Toffoli will command more AAV this off season than he would have in the summer of 2015.

One can only hope that there will be a different GM and Coach when that occurs. Looking at the free agent pool, Vegas expansion draft and the Kings cap situation this is looking to be pretty much the same team next season barring either a Vegas miracle or blockbuster trade.

 

[King'sPawn]

Rakell is the kind of player to which you give a long term contract.

Even considering his steady improvement the Ducks managed to commit to him for only six years. Well done. I am sure Rakell being an RFA helped, but it points out the success of a GM depends greatly on which of his young players receives a long term contract.

Yeah, I wish Lombardi built championship teams like Murray. He is definitely the beacon of success.

Edit: forgot to add, especially since he signed both Getzlaf and Perry to 8 year, $8 million+ deals.

 

[KingCanadain1976]

Pointless argument really.

Dwight King is an UFA, and will no doubt have priced himself out of LA.

He most likely won't be resigned.

can i hold u to this pleasee

 

[HookKing]

Pointless argument really.

Dwight King is an UFA, and will no doubt have priced himself out of LA.

He most likely won't be resigned.

Didn't we say the same thing about Lewis?

 

[KINGS17]

Yeah, I wish Lombardi built championship teams like Murray. He is definitely the beacon of success.

Edit: forgot to add, especially since he signed both Getzlaf and Perry to 8 year, $8 million+ deals.

Lombardi's problem isn't BUILDING championship teams, it's managing the roster once championships were won.

We can start with the Richards debacle and go from there.

Murray signed Rakell to a good deal for the Ducks, that's a fact.

Why are you bringing up Murray's Getzlaf and Perry signings? I have already said giving 8 years to forwards approaching 30 years of age is a bad idea. Does Dean doing it make it a good idea? No. Maybe you should take off the Dean Lombardi homer glasses.

 

[Herby]

Lombardi's problem isn't BUILDING championship teams, it's managing the roster once championships were won.

We can start with the Richards debacle and go from there.

Murray signed Rakell to a good deal for the Ducks, that's a fact.

Why are you bringing up Murray's Getzlaf and Perry signings? I have already said giving 8 years to forwards approaching 30 years of age is a bad idea. Does Dean doing it make it a good idea? No. Maybe you should take off the Dean Lombardi homer glasses.

My fav poster here.

K17 was the single biggest Lombardi fan on this site. This is like Brutus and Caeser.

I think Lombardi had an insane amount of good fortune early on, not only inheriting Kopitar and Doughty but basically all the signings he wanted to make not working out. Had the Kings signed any of Briere, Drury or B. Richards there is no cup in 2012, same thing had Smyth not wanted back to EDM, with Smyth on the roster there is no money to get Carter and no cup. But any good gambler has to capitalize on the good luck and he did with some nice moves and signings to get 2 cups.

But towards the end it's been a string of very bad luck compounded by very awful decisions. There was no way when he traded for Mike Richards in June 2011 that Dean could have known by the start of the 13-14 season that Richards wouldn't be an NHL caliber player. Same thing with Brown, and ofcourse the Voynov situation, Slava probably would have been a #2 d-man in the NHL.

 

[King'sPawn]

Lombardi's problem isn't BUILDING championship teams, it's managing the roster once championships were won.

We can start with the Richards debacle and go from there.

Murray signed Rakell to a good deal for the Ducks, that's a fact.

Why are you bringing up Murray's Getzlaf and Perry signings? I have already said giving 8 years to forwards approaching 30 years of age is a bad idea. Does Dean doing it make it a good idea? No. Maybe you should take off the Dean Lombardi homer glasses.

Lombardi maintained a roster well enough to win a second cup. What he fails to do is separate himself from the players to a healthy level.

What you constantly fail to understand is that winning teams have to take chances. Lombardi took chances when he felt he had a window and they failed. That is what separates him from GMs like Bob Murray. You look smart when going in pays off, and you don't when it doesn't.

If you read what I've said, you would see I've said that if Lombardi goes all in again, he should be fired, because the organization can't take it. That's not a Lombardi homer. But I can understand you resorting to ad hominem since you don't have any other recourse.

But go ahead and keep praising Murray for being a successful GM because he signed a good player long term. Woohoo.

FWIW, I'm not a fan of giving players more than five years, but I've accepted the pragmatism of cap management and commitment to players behind it, as well as job security for the players. I just choose not to fight useless fights.

 

[kingsfan28]

Yeah, I wish Lombardi built championship teams like Murray. He is definitely the beacon of success.

Edit: forgot to add, especially since he signed both Getzlaf and Perry to 8 year, $8 million+ deals.

You can add Kesler and Bieksa.. They have 4 major contracts hanging over their heads. Just wait til Gibson wants to be paid to 5 money.

 

[kingsfan28]

My fav poster here.

K17 was the single biggest Lombardi fan on this site. This is like Brutus and Caeser.

I think Lombardi had an insane amount of good fortune early on, not only inheriting Kopitar and Doughty but basically all the signings he wanted to make not working out. Had the Kings signed any of Briere, Drury or B. Richards there is no cup in 2012, same thing had Smyth not wanted back to EDM, with Smyth on the roster there is no money to get Carter and no cup. But any good gambler has to capitalize on the good luck and he did with some nice moves and signings to get 2 cups.

But towards the end it's been a string of very bad luck compounded by very awful decisions. There was no way when he traded for Mike Richards in June 2011 that Dean could have known by the start of the 13-14 season that Richards wouldn't be an NHL caliber player. Same thing with Brown, and ofcourse the Voynov situation, Slava probably would have been a #2 d-man in the NHL.

This might be the toughest of them all. Impossible to replace and got no one in the pipeline close to his talent. It really started a trickle down effect that started with trading for Sekera, tehn went down hill.

 

[KINGS17]

My fav poster here.

K17 was the single biggest Lombardi fan on this site. This is like Brutus and Caeser.

I think Lombardi had an insane amount of good fortune early on, not only inheriting Kopitar and Doughty but basically all the signings he wanted to make not working out. Had the Kings signed any of Briere, Drury or B. Richards there is no cup in 2012, same thing had Smyth not wanted back to EDM, with Smyth on the roster there is no money to get Carter and no cup. But any good gambler has to capitalize on the good luck and he did with some nice moves and signings to get 2 cups.

But towards the end it's been a string of very bad luck compounded by very awful decisions. There was no way when he traded for Mike Richards in June 2011 that Dean could have known by the start of the 13-14 season that Richards wouldn't be an NHL caliber player. Same thing with Brown, and ofcourse the Voynov situation, Slava probably would have been a #2 d-man in the NHL.

I prefer Augustus, thank you.

Dean inherited Brown, Quick, and Kopitar. Doughty was his pick.

While Brown, Quick, and Kopitar were Taylor picks they came up under Dean and I think he handled their development quite well. I think Dean also recognized that perhaps Brown and Kopitar were not going to get over the hump by themselves.

He went out and got the right vets to add to the mix and the Kings were an elite team for three seasons. I still firmly believe Dean changed the culture in the Kings organization, and the Kings would be best served by promoting Futa to GM and having Dean move upstairs.

EDIT: You are also quite right about the signings Dean didn't make. Signing Drury, Briere or Brad Richards would have been a disaster. Sometimes the best UFA signings are the ones that don't take place.

Despite the appearance of pursuing Kovalchuk aggressively, I have talked to people who should know who have indicated Dean sabotaged the negotiation with the tough questions he asked Kovalchuk during their one visit.

 

[KINGS17]

Lombardi maintained a roster well enough to win a second cup. What he fails to do is separate himself from the players to a healthy level.

What you constantly fail to understand is that winning teams have to take chances. Lombardi took chances when he felt he had a window and they failed. That is what separates him from GMs like Bob Murray. You look smart when going in pays off, and you don't when it doesn't.

If you read what I've said, you would see I've said that if Lombardi goes all in again, he should be fired, because the organization can't take it. That's not a Lombardi homer. But I can understand you resorting to ad hominem since you don't have any other recourse.

But go ahead and keep praising Murray for being a successful GM because he signed a good player long term. Woohoo.

FWIW, I'm not a fan of giving players more than five years, but I've accepted the pragmatism of cap management and commitment to players behind it, as well as job security for the players. I just choose not to fight useless fights.

I don't fail to understand anything. If Dean had been willing to take chances he would have bought Richards out in the summer of 2014. Not signed a 29-year old Kopitar to an 8-year, $80M albatross of a contract, etc.

How has anything I have ever said about Lombardi ad hominem? You know what it means, right? It's an argument directed against a person rather than the position they are maintaining. I was always Dean Lombardi's biggest supporter when people were calling for his head in 2011-12. The problem is Dean has forgotten his own mantra, "Get younger, get better."

Now he has at least three ridiculous contracts on the books, and he will be lucky if he can get rid of one of them.

Did I praise Murray for being a successful GM? No, I simply said Rakell is the kind of player an organization should sign to a long term deal.

I get it, Dean is your hero, and you will defend Kopitar to the death, but try to be at least a little objective when reading other people's posts.