HF Habs: The Martin St Louis Thread

[Bombshell11]

Always weird to me when a coach doesn't let a guy shoot in the shootout when he's already beaten the goalie 1 on 1 during the game

is it time for Alain Vigneault?

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Even though it's a seemingly small decision, to not put Demidov in the shootout, it's pretty emblematic of the issues with MSL.

He just simply can't recognize in-game trends and capitalize on them. There are multiple reasons why Demidov would've been the ideal shooter in the shootout yesterday, not just because he had a good game:

1. The other goalie probably doesn't have a read on him! The goalie is going in blind. That's already an incredibly advantage in a shootout.

2. The shootout is a skills competition. You put your highest skilled players/stick-handlers and, even though it was Demidov's first game, he is clearly already one of our most skilled forwards.

3. You have to build on momentum that your best players have created. You can energize the player by energizing the crowd by putting Demidov in. Same goes for Hutson, who was also one of the only players last night creating any offense.

It's been proven time and time again you can't 4D chess your way through the shootout. You just put your best players and hope for the best.

Is it 4D chess to put in two of the best shootout players ever along with your captain?

I get wanting Demidov but it's hardly a stretch to put in two guys who are better than 40 percent on shootouts along with Suzuki (36 percent.)

If he'd chosen a Mathieu Darche in front of Demidov then I could understand the complaints. He put in guys who've always had success in the shootout. It makes perfect sense to do that.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

Always weird to me when a coach doesn't let a guy shoot in the shootout when he's already beaten the goalie 1 on 1 during the game

Wholly different situations. Demidov beat him one-on-one because of the bank shot he grabbed and did a fake shot on. The goalie was already invested to that side of the net. It's a false equivalence.

 

[Kudo Shinichi]

Always weird to me when a coach doesn't let a guy shoot in the shootout when he's already beaten the goalie 1 on 1 during the game

So if Gallagher scores a goal on a breakaway, should he be chosen in the shootout over Caufield/Suzuki/Laine?

 

[CzarDemidov]

exactly,the " what can any coach do with this roster" excuse is getting fu&#ing ridiculous,if its such a poor roster why would Hughes keep them together when Suzuki asked him to ?

It’s a very poor roster and this is why Hughes didn’t spend even a 5th round pick to acquire any help.

We don’t have a second line. We don’t have a NHL quality 3rd pairing. Our goaltender is average. Our top line is carried heavily by one player.

Our depth players are streaky veterans who are too slow. We don’t have a NHL quality 12th forward.

I’m not saying MSL is beyond criticism but we’re in a playoff spot after being 31st in the league.

 

[SannywithoutCompy]

So if Gallagher scores a goal on a breakaway, should he be chosen in the shootout over Caufield/Suzuki/Laine?

Maybe. Suzuki hasn't gotten a shootout goal this year I don't think, would it be the worst idea to go with a hot hand?

 

[sampollock]

why did he tell Demi you shoot 3rd on the shootout and then he does not
anyone else catch that?

 

[CzarDemidov]

I long maintained that the roster isn't as bad and with better system we'd be in a playoffs long ago. I mean, you're telling me this roster, man to man, is worse than Ottawa's? Or NJs? Come on. This coach trying to make them play the way this team isn't built to play. Or cannot sustain playing it effectively for a long time. That is aside from poor in-game management, play time management and flat out terrible roster choices.

See my reply above, I disagree about the roster.

I think NJ and Ottawa both have significantly better players than we do (injuries notwithstanding).

As for “terrible roster choices” what choices do we even have? Hughes doesn’t want to disrupt the Rocket. We have no depth whatsoever.

 

[SannywithoutCompy]

Wholly different situations. Demidov beat him one-on-one because of the bank shot he grabbed and did a fake shot on. The goalie was already invested to that side of the net. It's a false equivalence.

Well no shit, I'm not saying he scored on a clear cut controlled breakaway or a penalty shot, I'm saying he already beat him 1 on 1, so why not give him the chance to do it again? At that point you're already in the goalie's head.

 

[SannywithoutCompy]

why did he tell Demi you shoot 3rd on the shootout and then he does not
anyone else catch that?

I think he told him he was 4th didn't he?

 

[sampollock]

MSL needs to wake up.
think differently, but no experience shows now

 

[sampollock]

I think he told him he was 4th didn't he?

thought I seen Demi show 3 fingers, could be wrong though

 

[JoelWarlord]

The breakouts are one thing but I can't take it seriously that I'm supposed to be mad that we had Caufield, Laine, and Suzuki go in the shootout with Demidov ready to go 4th. Laine and Caufield are both around the top 15-20 active players and Suzuki is around 37%.

 

[That Habs Fan]

MSL definitely flashed 4 fingers, Demi would have been 4th (what a storybook moment that could've been had he clinched it for us)

 

[The Gr8 Dane]

The breakouts are one thing but I can't take it seriously that I'm supposed to be mad that we had Caufield, Laine, and Suzuki go in the shootout with Demidov ready to go 4th. Laine and Caufield are both around the top 15-20 active players and Suzuki is around 37%.

Yeah the shootout is whatever. We played so loose all game it looked like a NCAA game honnestly , blackhawks were walking into our zone uncontested all game

 

[Ezpz]

Wrong a super big post in the MSL stay or go poll and thread didn't exist by the time I was done. I'll quote below.

What the f*** some of you need to go back and watch Jacques Martin, Michel Therrien, and Claude Julien coached Habs. God damn the only coach who didn't deserve to be turned on this quickly was Carbo. I don't see how you see clear progression year to year with a weak roster and think we should dump the coach ASAP. The same coach who continuously addresses his shortcomings by hiring specialists and changing his gameplan.
Why would you want to get rid of a guy who can admit he's not the best but is willing to work to become that? In favour of what? Who is out there? You wanna bring back Therrien to insist playing only one system all year with zero adjustments ever and insisting on trading guys out who don't fit the mold instead of working with them to find common ground?

Like does Josh Anderson bounce back under any of our last 5 coaches? They wanted him to change his game, worked with him, and it was a huge failure. It takes a lot to just say, yeah that didn't work let's get back to your old game. He'd have been bullied into a buyout under Therrien.

Same goes for Gallagher. Oh what you're letting your off-ice life effect your game? If you want loyalty buy a dog, go to the AHL in the meantime.

Caufield would have been traded under Ducharme/Bergevin. Thank f*** Bergevin declined the extension.

And I f***ing hated not sending Demidov out there in the shootout too. Who knows what went into that decision though, none of us were there. The Amazon camera showed Marty and Demidov talking to each other and I thought I saw MSL hand sign a three to Demidov, but maybe it was a four. Maybe Marty thought sending the top three goal scorers of our season to the shootout was the safe play. It's not like he sent Anderson or Newhook.

But that's not the type of decision I fire a coach over. Unless another Jim Montgomery becomes available I don't see the rush. Or widespread regression in the lineup.

But we don't see that, we see progression from every single core player. Cole went from unidimensional goal scorer to all around good player. Now he scores more than before and also sets up his team mates and backchecks. Nick is the first captain I've liked and respected as captain since Saku. Slaf ain't great but he's not moving backwards; no matter what he's ahead of last years points per game. Evans has become a great 4C/decent 3C. Heinemen got used very strategically the get the most out of him and has been virtually out of the lineup when his play hasn't been up to par..

Newhook/Dach are the only complaints. Is that Marty?

Xhekaj as well. But are 11 healthy scratches in an 82 game season for a 6D firable offenses? The guy with 6 points on the year, and a minus per game in limited ice time the last few weeks?

Is Pezz in the lineup a Marty call? Or did management think Beck needed to get big minutes in Laval instead?

NHL Stats

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In the last month, which decision Marty has made is actually reflecting poorly in actual stats? Xhekaj -6 in 7 games playing only 11 minutes a game. That's a team worst. Did we not win 6 in a row with him mostly scratched?

Laine got moved to the fourth line, HIs offensive and defensive metrics seem to suggest that was deserved.

Struble is +6 in the same period, a full +12 difference from Xhekaj.

Matheson's minutes are the biggest thing, but Guhle was injured and who else can play top pairing minutes of our remaining D? Mike's filling a role he's not good enough for, but neither are the rest of our current D.

People complained we sent Dvo to the shootout last week, he's fourth in scoring on the team in the last month, and statistically has one of the best shootout records.

Gally's nearly a point per game since his mom's situation got to the end point. Marty has accordingly bumped up his minutes. Is that not adustment? When he was brutal in the mid-season Marty dropped his minutes.

By many metrics Kapanen is one of the worst players in the league. Marty literally adjusts his minutes by how he's playing individually in a game.

Demidov's ovechkin controller disconnect led to one of the goals against. Naturally that's going to make any coach apprehensive to throw them into specific situations. Yet we still saw Demidov in OT, on the PP, and at ES. He didn't get benched. 17 minutes in your debut game, where Demidov himself said he still felt jetlagged and was feeling slow in the third period. 17 minutes average would be the fourth most used forward on our team after the first line. And the truth is Demidov set up two or three more free goals that Newhook/others missed. Marty's usage of him would have "won the game" if the players had not blown it.

Yeah he went to PP2, but Nick double shifted. And he was out on the PP with Hutson at least once. Going 1/5 on the PP is league average. Going 2/4 on the PK is not. Is it Marty's fault though that his best PKer was in the box? Is he sitting on the bench whispering to Kaiden Guhle, psss, go take two penalties, psss.

Only in Montreal is going 6-2-2 in your last ten a collapse. Sorry, only got 70% of available points with a roster expected to finish bottom 3.

I will be the first guy to justifiably turn on Marty but I don't see the shit that made me turn on Therrien, Martin, Cunneyworth, Ducharme, Julien, Gainey, etc. I don't see a team that plays uninspired hockey all year and grinds out wins relying on the GOAT goalie. I see a team that falls flat in the first, due to simply being the worse team in nearly every match up, then fights its way back in the last 40 minutes consistently. We faced an inferior team yesterday and dominated them in the first until Guhle's hit (which I loved, won't even blame him; that's big dick playoff shit).

We're not boring to watch every single game. Do you know how many teams simply have zero excitement in their games? That's why everyone watches Colorado. I barely watched the post-Markov era because of how god damn boring it was (plus living in China meant games were too early for me).

 

[rik schau]

MSL definitely flashed 4 fingers, Demi would have been 4th (what a storybook moment that could've been had he clinched it for us)

Demidov should have flashed MSL 1, the middle one.lol

 

[The Gr8 Dane]

Marty's ego needs to get out of the way fast when it comes to Demidov , he should be the most used forward in the playoffs. Honestly should have been put on the first line last night instead of Slaf

 

[CzarDemidov]

Wrong a super big post in the MSL stay or go poll and thread didn't exist by the time I was done. I'll quote below.

This is an excellent and thoughtful comment to give perspective on MSL.

The facts are
1) he’s worked on his shortcomings and for example this year he hired a tactical coach
2) young players are largely given redemptions chances and opportunities
3) this roster is not good and he has them over-performing
4) no one figured we’d be in a playoff spot come Game 82 of the season

Go Habs Go and all that

 

[hvac412]

I could always say he’s a terrible game manager, but at least he’s a good motivator. However I don’t see a motivated team in the most important week of their season.

Yeah the shootout is whatever. We played so loose all game it looked like a NCAA game honnestly , blackhawks were walking into our zone uncontested all game

That’s what I find alarming, yet enthusiasm (and it wasn’t there in abundance last night) can only take you so far.

Habs spent most of the night chasing, like an old Edsel sputtering out of gas.

Lost the majority of stick battles but promoted more stick battles with The Lob and atrocious passing.

Hoping they got The Worst out of their system and are much better Thursday night.

They have to be to get a point or two vs Canes.

they'll be golfing by thursday....

 

[Ezpz]

Marty's ego needs to get out of the way fast when it comes to Demidov , he should be the most used forward in the playoffs. Honestly should have been put on the first line last night instead of Slaf

Demidov himself said he was jetlagged and feeling it in the third, still played 17 minutes and more than his linemates. I don't think there's any argument Nick Suzuki shouldn't be the most used forward though. He's clearly the straw that stirs this drink.

 

[rik schau]

they'll be golfing by thursday....

By the way they have been playing,it looks like that's what they wanted all along.lol

 

[sampollock]

the pee wee coach is coming out.
way harder to manage a NHL room

 

[70Stang]

It’s a very poor roster and this is why Hughes didn’t spend even a 5th round pick to acquire any help.

We don’t have a second line. We don’t have a NHL quality 3rd pairing. Our goaltender is average. Our top line is carried heavily by one player.

Our depth players are streaky veterans who are too slow. We don’t have a NHL quality 12th forward.

I’m not saying MSL is beyond criticism but we’re in a playoff spot after being 31st in the league.

You are 100% correct in this assessment.

 

[Ezpz]

It’s a very poor roster and this is why Hughes didn’t spend even a 5th round pick to acquire any help.

We don’t have a second line. We don’t have a NHL quality 3rd pairing. Our goaltender is average. Our top line is carried heavily by one player.

Our depth players are streaky veterans who are too slow. We don’t have a NHL quality 12th forward.

I’m not saying MSL is beyond criticism but we’re in a playoff spot after being 31st in the league.

Hughes did not think Nick would leave such a massive dick and balls on the table after their conversation. Even at the deadline he thought no way they continue this for another month.

Which sucks cause even a middle-six winger would have been a big boon. But who knows, maybe team chemistry is why they even won six in a row.

But maybe we were the team that offered the second for Boeser too, we'll never know.