HF Habs: The Martin St Louis Thread

[Ezpz]

So you agree that MSL isnt the reason were there?

Marty hired the defensive specialist who came in and changed the way it was organized when we were getting clobbered every game. Marty suggested the skills coach to help the guys develop their games. Marty has been very good at addressing his own shortcomings. I won't say he's the most critical aspect but he's been an important part because he keeps his ego out of doing Therrien/Bergevin-level dumbassery. It also takes a good coach to get the guys to buy into these things and push even when it seems like we're out despite losing consistently for three years.

Only so much you can do with half-season Laine-Dach-Newhook handed to you as a second line. No players in the entire system except Hage and Demidov with that potential. GM added nothing for you at the deadline, said prove you guys deserve it. Your first callup option Roy is not great. second Beck is not suitable for second line, your third call up option Farrell had basically 0 points in 20 games. Mesar underperforming. RHP comes back, can't even crack the roster, barely top 9 in the AHL. So what are you gonna do, call up ABB to be a non-factor again? Call up Davidson? Kapanen got sent back to Europe. Now he's back but you're fighting for a playoff spot and he had bottom 10 analytics early season in the entire league.

He said he thought Heinemen's ability to contribute was because he was on the fourth line. I didn't necessarily agree but he's kind of been proven right; though Heinemen hasn't been as good since he was hit by the car.

Getting good play out of Dvo and reviving Andy/Gally is enough for me to bow to Marty this season. Literally only change all year was losing Barron for Carrier.

 

[Quatre Vingt Treize]

We're 6-3-1 in our last 10. That's not a collapse. Even finishing 0-2 wouldn't be a collapse because we still would have 6 wins in our last 10. Check the standings one month ago, two months ago. The east has been extremely tight all season. Two months ago we were 6 points out. One month ago we were 1 point out, behind Columbus. If Columbus came back to knock us out with 1 point it would literally be playing even because they've been ahead of us nearly the entire season. Go back three months even we're two points out. Who is in WC2 in all three, or one point out, of those snapshots? Columbus.

People act like we didn't magically jump into WC2 after a massive game win streak 70 games into the year. Columbus has been on and off passing us every few days since then too. We created separation literally less than two weeks ago by winning six in a row. Columbus had a losing streak and got some players back from injury. They have a better goal differential than us. They've been more consistent all year while we've been prone to swings up and down. They've got a better forward group. Arguably an equal d group but I like the potential of ours better. Monty is straight up the difference in points between our teams. As much as people rag on him Monty's 7th in the league for goals saved above expected. Merzlekins is 89th (only 100 goalies played this year), just a few spots above Cayden Primeau. Swap goalies and Columbus knock New Jersey out of the playoffs.

I don't want to miss the playoffs but let's not pretend our team isn't overperforming on the backs of three players instead of chipping out wins from a balanced roster.

Last two games Montreal never even showed up. Totally unprepared. Habs had chance to salt playoff chance away. If they miss be collapse of all playoff collapses. Could happen if we don't show up for this game. Because Canes are good team and Jackets have two soft games left.

 

[Mrb1p]

Yes, this team has been run on auto pilot the whole season without any input from Marty. He had nothing to do with keeping this team together when they could have crumbled after the terrible start.

The resilience growth and culture of this team was just an organic phenomenon without any external forces nurturing it, a true miracle of nature.

The development of the players carrying this squad also has nothing to do with their success. It's all been just preordained by God himself,

Marty is so fortunate to be getting any semblance of credit whatsoever. Some guys have all the luck, just the right place at the right time I guess.

Imagine being gifted such an amazing roster without injury or adversity or even holes in it, and getting to ride coattails into the playoffs and take credit for it? Especially one as deep and experienced as this one.

You've won me over, fire Marty!

The team DID crumble. Lmao.

Everything you just brought forth is basically assumptions. Someone with bad faith could say that this is all on players.

Reality is its probably a bit of both, the problem is mostly on where we stand with the on-ice product. 8 shots through 40 minutes routinely, getting absolutely dominated in the early stages of the games this is all factually on the coach.

I think MSL is a good players coach and he's good at developping players, or at least most players. He's a great skills coach from what I can see, it's the bench stuff that I have a hard time with anyone convincing me otherwise.

It's also not about "Fire Marty", its about realizing Marty may or may not be the man to coach us to the promised land. Not everything needs to be red white and blue, man.

 

[SannywithoutCompy]

The team DID crumble. Lmao.

Everything you just brought forth is basically assumptions. Someone with bad faith could say that this is all on players.

Reality is its probably a bit of both, the problem is mostly on where we stand with the on-ice product. 8 shots through 40 minutes routinely, getting absolutely dominated in the early stages of the games this is all factually on the coach.

I think MSL is a good players coach and he's good at developping players, or at least most players. He's a great skills coach from what I can see, it's the bench stuff that I have a hard time with anyone convincing me otherwise.

It's also not about "Fire Marty", its about realizing Marty may or may not be the man to coach us to the promised land. Not everything needs to be red white and blue, man.

Yeah he's solid at player development, but in terms of motivating and tactics he leaves a lot to be desired. I think our window of contention is starting soon and I'm not sure he's the coach for that based on what we've seen lately.

Unfortunately he also falls into the coaching trap of over-relying on vets (Matheson, Savard) and forgiving all their mistakes while not giving young guys the same leeway.

 

[DAChampion]

MSL's Habs have overachieved this year. People had them bottom five and they're finishing around 8th.

A lot of players have shown growth this year. One thing that's worked well is that Anderson-Dvorak-Gallagher are transitioning to being effective older players, as they could no longer be the players they were when younger. It's an example of good coaching.

They're able to make optimal use of Patrick Laine, a player with significant strengths and significant weaknesses, a lot of coaches would not have the patience.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

That said, he needs to review his timeout philosophy. That, would be a nice start.

Oh yeah, like friday night when many were screaming for a timeout after the 2nd Sens goal, but hadn't realized they were a minute or two away from the mandatory commercial break.

 

[morhilane]

Yeah he's solid at player development, but in terms of motivating and tactics he leaves a lot to be desired. I think our window of contention is starting soon and I'm not sure he's the coach for that based on what we've seen lately.

Unfortunately he also falls into the coaching trap of over-relying on vets (Matheson, Savard) and forgiving all their mistakes while not giving young guys the same leeway.

He's actually good at motiviating. But MSL doesn't motivate all the time. He said earlier this season that players should come to the "job" motivated. He's been trying to teach them that, to not much success going by their flat starts.

But when he motivate them, they are top 5 team in the league...and the result is a physical and (probably) mental collapse a few games later.

He's a good assistant coach, but he has a lots to learn in term of season and game management. And I don't like how the team play-style and/or his coaching style has evolved since he was hired. Since last year, it's been a slow decline toward most-not-lose decision making. He's coaching scared.

 

[BLONG7]

He has to coach to win..............and right now, he seems to be coaching and trying not to lose.

 

[Saint Patrick]

I cant remember the last time I saw a team shoot so little over multiple games. very very important games IMHO. It's really pathetic. Not sure what the issue is there but Marty needs to get his team to come out flying, there's no greater reason than what they have been able to do and how close they are to losing it. That's issue number one for me. Then he's a coach that has supported the youth, big difference to our previous coaches who seem to constantly forgive brain farts by vets and punish rookies that make mistakes, Caufield being a prime example in the past, he blossomed under Marty. But then he executes exactly like those dinosaures with Matheson (or Savard) vs Xhekaj. I'm not sure why he's on Arber's case like this, its become a meme, he might have made mistakes but Matheson makes them every game too and I have yet to see him at least miss a period. But I get it, he does good as well, IMO so does Arber big time. I think like every coach Marty is still to be commended for what he did with this team, but there are issues that are just glaring.

 

[hvac412]

Yeah he's solid at player development, but in terms of motivating and tactics he leaves a lot to be desired. I think our window of contention is starting soon and I'm not sure he's the coach for that based on what we've seen lately.

Unfortunately he also falls into the coaching trap of over-relying on vets (Matheson, Savard) and forgiving all their mistakes while not giving young guys the same leeway.

He's Hugh's (teachers pet) right now ,get used to mediocrity for awhile he aint going anywhere.Not even sure he can get us into the playoffs let alone through them.Probably the least excited iv'e ever felt about making the playoffs,they still haven't overcome their 1st period pathetic starts and are third worst in the league in leading a game and are probably banged up as usual.... rinse..repeat

 

[Kudo Shinichi]

Well for me the mistake is not now (who knows if Heinemann is 100% healthy or not) it is over the course of the Season : by not playing Pezzeta at all or players from Laval (Roy Beck) and essentially playing 11F a lot of nights, several players are completely exhausted. At this stage you could use a guy like Dauphin Barret Boulet ... but you need to play them.

The idea that the players are exhausted because the team is playing 11F is a myth. I've already debunked this in the past.

That 12th forward would've been playing about 10 min, and that ice time is distributed across many forwards, so it's not 1 player taking in all that. Playing a couple of extra shifts isn't a big deal, especially when considering that every single forward on this team has been playing less than they were last season.

Ice time last season:

Ice time this season:

The main player fans keep talking about being exhausted because he's playing too much is Suzuki.
- Suzuki is averaging 1min19 less of ice time than he did last season.
- This is the lowest ice time Suzuki has had since his 2nd year in the NHL in 20-21
- Suzuki is 30th among forwards in the NHL in average ice time, and 20th among centers.

I don't think anybody is saying this. The World is not black or white : it is not MSL greatest coach vs worst coach in the universe.
In terms of numbers the Habs have landed where they should be :80-90 points and that is to MSL s credit. In terms of quality of play they have been disappointing a lot of nights and saved by their goalies Hutson and Suzuki, while their performance as a team has been subpar which is something MSL is responsible for.

They've been saved by their 1G, 1D, and 1C? You realize the job of good players is to be good players and help the team win? Do you think Tampa would look good without Kucherov, Hedman, and Vasilevskiy? Do you think the other playoff teams don't have great players that help them win games?

Also, you all are acting like Marty had nothing to do with Suzuki and Hutson's development.

Okay, what about Roy then?

What about the 4 games in a row with a total of 20 shots on net in the first forty? Not on MSL? So we attribute to him success but not failures?

What about Roy? He's barely made his mark in the NHL. FYI I would much rather have Roy/Heineman than Pezzetta in the lineup, but I'm not going to be calling for the coaches head because of who he chooses to play as the 12th F.

Shots for/against and slow starts have been an issue. It's something that is going to need to be fixed eventually. Expecting a team who was bottom 5 last season to be perfect this season is not realistic. Overall, the team has vastly outperformed expectations and Marty deserves a lot of credit for it.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Yeah he's solid at player development, but in terms of motivating and tactics he leaves a lot to be desired. I think our window of contention is starting soon and I'm not sure he's the coach for that based on what we've seen lately.

Unfortunately he also falls into the coaching trap of over-relying on vets (Matheson, Savard) and forgiving all their mistakes while not giving young guys the same leeway.

Can't say that I agree on the motivation part. His teams have overperformed most seasons.

Tactically? It's difficult to say. How much of that is roster limitation? The first line has been pretty good for most of the year. The bottoms six have been pretty good as well. The second line has been a gongshow and that's not a coaching issue, it's a roster limitation. Moreover, our D has been really lacking on the right side.

At the beginning of the season I predicted that our offense would be good and our D bad. That was based on us having a 2nd line. Even without that though, the offense is at least respectable. Look how much better our D looked once we added Carriere... was that a coaching issue or was it a roster issue fixed by bringing in a stable player on the right side? Get better players and you wind up with better results.

For now, he's the right coach. He's shown he can develop players really well and we've got RB and Demidov coming. I want him around for them for sure. The team will improve just by virtue of talent and experience over the next couple of years. If we find that we're not playing well or are disorganized or whatever... then we can revisit. But for now, he's the right coach for us.

 

[digmor crusher]

If the team starts slow for a game its not the coaches fault, these guys are pros not children, they shouldn't need anyone to motivate them.

 

[morhilane]

I cant remember the last time I saw a team shoot so little over multiple games. very very important games IMHO....

Pretty much what playing to not lose is: the belief that you win with a lucky bounce if you don't get scored on, because you are focusing on defense and avoiding risks. Which usually means perimeter shots that get blocked by Ds and not recorded as shot on nets.

 

[Saint Patrick]

Pretty much what playing to not lose is: the belief that you win with a lucky bounce if you don't get scored on, because you are focusing on defense and avoiding risks. Which usually means perimeter shots that get blocked by Ds and not recorded as shot on nets.

Yeah I agree, just didnt expect that in the first period.

 

[Shutdown]

shot attempts were pretty much equal for both teams. in my opinion the fact that the Habs shot this much but weren't able to get the open lanes to get it on net is an indication of a tired group. not a group trying not to lose vs trying to win.

 

[HabsAddict]

You should take your "cranky" ass back to HabsRus, your moniker over there suits you. What an absurd take.

Rebuilding team would be weaker without it's best players, what a revelation.

Also I assure you if we were dumb enough to fire "SMarty" he'd be hired elsewhere in a heartbeat. Probably even have numerous suitors. Don't kid yourself.

Probable Jack Adams nominee this season, after taking possibly the youngest team in the history of the NHL, in it's 3rd year of a rebuild, with holes the size of canyons to the playoffs. Mediocre indeed.

Ohhh...it's personal...from somebody we kicked out.

Withoit a Calder season from Hutson and leadership from Suzuki, SMarty "coaching" would have is in the bottom. His mediocrity precedes him.

And of course, i ignore trash...

 

[HabbyGuy]

Ohhh...it's personal...from somebody we kicked out.

Withoit a Calder season from Hutson and leadership from Suzuki, SMarty "coaching" would have is in the bottom. His mediocrity precedes him.

And of course, i ignore trash...

LOL What are you talking about? Stop gaslighting man, kicked out?What does this even mean? I could go and post there right now if I wanted to. Been a member there for 22 years, same as here.

 

[HabsAddict]

Okay, what about Roy then?

What about the 4 games in a row with a total of 20 shots on net in the first forty? Not on MSL? So we attribute to him success but not failures?

You can't make PeeWee coaching mistakes at this time of year.

ONE goal makes an enormous difference and you are likely to get there by a lot of players who SMarty has sitting in the stands or playing in Laval.

An example is Barret-Boule...he'd eat glass to play for the Habs, but SMarty simply wont look at.

It's just too logical, too much common sense that coaches can't make these mistakes.

 

[HabbyGuy]

The sky is falling! Ahhhhhhhh!!!!!!

 

[Mrb1p]

The sky is falling! Ahhhhhhhh!!!!!!

No, it isnt. Suzuki, Hutson and the goaltenders are holding it up

 

[Shutdown]

-they don't have a capable 2nd line center.

-one of the pillars of their top 4 d is an extremely flawed player (sure Matheson's icetime is excessive but they're not in a position to contend for a playoff spot with Struble or Xhekaj playing 20 mins per night).

-with Kapanen and Demidov on the roster and removing Price from the equation, if they make the playoffs, they will be the youngest team in the history of the league to do so.

i'm more than ok with the job St. Louis has done, even if i think Savard should have sat a little more this year.

 

[HabzSauce]

He's got warts but I really can't hate on this dude TOO much. He's won me over after his horrendous start. It's very hard for me to argue against results here. And for anyone saying it's all Hutson/Suzuki - yea that's fair but what coach in the history of the NHL could get this crap team to the playoffs without their two best players?

Now with that said, I still want a better coach lol. Preferably soon, like next year if the boys club will allow it

 

[Mrb1p]

He's got warts but I really can't hate on this dude TOO much. He's won me over after his horrendous start. It's very hard for me to argue against results here. And for anyone saying it's all Hutson/Suzuki - yea that's fair but what coach in the history of the NHL could get this crap team to the playoffs without their two best players?

Now with that said, I still want a better coach lol. Preferably soon, like next year if the boys club will allow it

This.

Why do we have to have one coach anyway? Get Marty to buy into the project and tell him were ordering a new bench coach and a strategy coach, he can be the development coach or players coach. Were the richest team in the league, why do we play by the rules and why dont we have the absolute best personnel?

 

[Kimota]

I cant remember the last time I saw a team shoot so little over multiple games. very very important games IMHO. It's really pathetic. Not sure what the issue is there but Marty needs to get his team to come out flying, there's no greater reason than what they have been able to do and how close they are to losing it. That's issue number one for me. Then he's a coach that has supported the youth, big difference to our previous coaches who seem to constantly forgive brain farts by vets and punish rookies that make mistakes, Caufield being a prime example in the past, he blossomed under Marty. But then he executes exactly like those dinosaures with Matheson (or Savard) vs Xhekaj. I'm not sure why he's on Arber's case like this, its become a meme, he might have made mistakes but Matheson makes them every game too and I have yet to see him at least miss a period. But I get it, he does good as well, IMO so does Arber big time. I think like every coach Marty is still to be commended for what he did with this team, but there are issues that are just glaring.

Tell you this, Marty's little thing with Xhekaj, it's a war Marty is not gonna win. Already a lot of fans are pissed by it. If Jack shows or voice his displeasure, people are not gonna side with Marty.