The Martin St Louis Thread

[nhlfan9191]

How’s the weather up there on your soapbox?

Expecting better and expecting more is part and parcel of every sports fan’s compulsion. We could demand Jon Cooper and if he doesn’t impress we could demand his replacement. That’s how it works.

There’s no shame in revising one’s opinion, it’s admirable even.

We had Therrien, Julien, and now St Louis.

Therrien got a lot out of Carey Price but little else (all non-Price related stats were mediocre at best), Julien was worse than Therrien across the board, and St Louis has an entirely different circumstance and he’s not living up to expectations either.

We don’t need a team of grinders but defensive stability is just basic common sense for a serious professional sports team.

Some of our fans have it in there mind that you either set up a dump and chase trap like Therrien that stifles all offence or let players skate around playing pond hockey so they can be creative. It’s like listening to people debate politics. Everything is either far-right or far-left. The center doesn’t exist anymore. The best teams find the best balance of both worlds that works with the players they have. Right now we don’t have that regardless of how bad our team may be on paper. That falls on the coach.

 

[Egresch]

Posters were upset at the coaches prior to MSL because they insisted players (like Caufield) play a 200 foot game. In comes MSL and he gives the fans what they asked for - he let the players loose. He gave you exactly what you wanted.

Now the fans want MSL gone.

MSL was a greenhorn when he started the job and it is obvious that we expect some improvement from him. Just like we expect the growth from our prospects. This is his 3rd full season and I honestly see very little progress.
- defensive hybrid concept is not working and it actually the opposite of loose. It is very strict and puting too much pressure on players. Man mark, but at the right time with the conditions, you need to switch to zone and your linemates need to follow as well. Zone is much easier for players to follow and they can use loose concept for offense
- line combos, we literally ended up with Anderson on 1st line after 3 years even if everyone on this planet sees this is not working. Actually, I am quite satisfied with Anderson this year, but the reason is, he is playing PK and 3rd line duties. I understand that lack of talent in the squad is a big complication.
- double standard for vets, Matheson can cause trillion turnovers and still play 25 mins per game while Xhekaj is punished for the same thing. Not even talking about guys like Dvorak, Armia, Savard this season...
- his team is lacking effort, but the one guys who is embodiment of effort is being healthy scratched. I am not saying that Pezzetta will save this team, but you just need to send some message.
I am not saying they should fire MSL, but these are red flags that concern me a lot. We are heading to 3rd consecutive bottom 5 finish and it is not about the players only. They will not fire him, but he needs to start evolving if he wants the extention in summer 2027, because at that time he will have no excuses.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

MSL was a greenhorn when he started the job and it is obvious that we expect some improvement from him. Just like we expect the growth from our prospects. This is his 3rd full season and I honestly see very little progress.
- defensive hybrid concept is not working and it actually the opposite of loose. It is very strict and puting too much pressure on players. Man mark, but at the right time with the conditions, you need to switch to zone and your linemates need to follow as well. Zone is much easier for players to follow and they can use loose concept for offense
- line combos, we literally ended up with Anderson on 1st line after 3 years even if everyone on this planet sees this is not working. Actually, I am quite satisfied with Anderson this year, but the reason is, he is playing PK and 3rd line duties. I understand that lack of talent in the squad is a big complication.
- double standard for vets, Matheson can cause trillion turnovers and still play 25 mins per game while Xhekaj is punished for the same thing. Not even talking about guys like Dvorak, Armia, Savard this season...
- his team is lacking effort, but the one guys who is embodiment of effort is being healthy scratched. I am not saying that Pezzetta will save this team, but you just need to send some message.
I am not saying they should fire MSL, but these are red flags that concern me a lot. We are heading to 3rd consecutive bottom 5 finish and it is not about the players only. They will not fire him, but he needs to start evolving if he wants the extention in summer 2027, because at that time he will have no excuses.

In terms of line combos, MSL has been better than most. He’s done a lot of good with the combos since he’s been here. But Armia on the 2nd was a mistake.

To be fair, his hands were tied. Laine went down and then we sent Roy to Laval. So it was nothing but bad choices after that.

Then Dach decided he needed to relearn hockey…

 

[salbutera]

Some of our fans have it in there mind that you either set up a dump and chase trap like Therrien that stifles all offence or let players skate around playing pond hockey so they can be creative. It’s like listening to people debate politics. Everything is either far-right or far-left. The center doesn’t exist anymore. The best teams find the best balance of both worlds that works with the players they have. Right now we don’t have that regardless of how bad our team may be on paper. That falls on the coach.

Look how many years it took for a star packed TBay team to figure out defensive responsibility is just as important as offensive creativity… they go hand in hand for championship caliber teams

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Some of our fans have it in there mind that you either set up a dump and chase trap like Therrien that stifles all offence or let players skate around playing pond hockey so they can be creative. It’s like listening to people debate politics. Everything is either far-right or far-left. The center doesn’t exist anymore. The best teams find the best balance of both worlds that works with the players they have. Right now we don’t have that regardless of how bad our team may be on paper. That falls on the coach.

Team is disorganized and also not executing simple plays. It’s one thing to say the system is wrong or that it takes time to learn - but the players should be shot for the way they’ve played too. Simple pass execution… it’s brutal. Some of these guys look like they’ve never played hockey.

Bring back Roy. Put him on the 2nd, see if that helps.

 

[nhlfan9191]

Team is disorganized and also not executing simple plays. It’s one thing to say the system is wrong or that it takes time to learn - but the players should be shot for the way they’ve played too. Simple pass execution… it’s brutal. Some of these guys look like they’ve never played hockey.

Bring back Roy. Put him on the 2nd, see if that helps.

The simple mistakes aren’t helping but I’ve been watching disorganization and confusion this season so far. Whatever St. Louis is trying to to implement isn’t working. It looks like he’s trying to run 3 different systems at once. Outside of Montreal he has no coaching experience at all. You would think he’d be trying to keep it as simple as possible but instead he’s trying to run something so complex that the fans and even the players don’t understand it.

 

[Just Linda]

Regardless of the results, I'm just glad MSL charged the forecheck. The sit back and trap system of the past few years was so much against what made the Canadiens fun the last few years, it made some of our players look so much worse.

I'm loving the forecheck of this year, I hope we continue it.

 

[Tyson]

Regardless of the results, I'm just glad MSL charged the forecheck. The sit back and trap system of the past few years was so much against what made the Canadiens fun the last few years, it made some of our players look so much worse.

I'm loving the forecheck of this year, I hope we continue it.

Fair enough but at what cost?

 

[teamfirst]

MSL was a greenhorn when he started the job and it is obvious that we expect some improvement from him. Just like we expect the growth from our prospects. This is his 3rd full season and I honestly see very little progress.
- defensive hybrid concept is not working and it actually the opposite of loose. It is very strict and puting too much pressure on players. Man mark, but at the right time with the conditions, you need to switch to zone and your linemates need to follow as well. Zone is much easier for players to follow and they can use loose concept for offense
- line combos, we literally ended up with Anderson on 1st line after 3 years even if everyone on this planet sees this is not working. Actually, I am quite satisfied with Anderson this year, but the reason is, he is playing PK and 3rd line duties. I understand that lack of talent in the squad is a big complication.
- double standard for vets, Matheson can cause trillion turnovers and still play 25 mins per game while Xhekaj is punished for the same thing. Not even talking about guys like Dvorak, Armia, Savard this season...
- his team is lacking effort, but the one guys who is embodiment of effort is being healthy scratched. I am not saying that Pezzetta will save this team, but you just need to send some message.
I am not saying they should fire MSL, but these are red flags that concern me a lot. We are heading to 3rd consecutive bottom 5 finish and it is not about the players only. They will not fire him, but he needs to start evolving if he wants the extention in summer 2027, because at that time he will have no excuses.

Why don't they give us a trillions time like button......this post sums it all

 

[teamfirst]

In terms of line combos, MSL has been better than most. He’s done a lot of good with the combos since he’s been here. But Armia on the 2nd was a mistake.

To be fair, his hands were tied. Laine went down and then we sent Roy to Laval. So it was nothing but bad choices after that.

Then Dach decided he needed to relearn hockey…

You sir are the King of excuses, better than most doesn't mean much if you compare with the worst.

Regardless of the results, I'm just glad MSL charged the forecheck. The sit back and trap system of the past few years was so much against what made the Canadiens fun the last few years, it made some of our players look so much worse.

I'm loving the forecheck of this year, I hope we continue it.

What forecheck, we are always in our zone

 

[Tyson]

MSL was a greenhorn when he started the job and it is obvious that we expect some improvement from him. Just like we expect the growth from our prospects. This is his 3rd full season and I honestly see very little progress.
- defensive hybrid concept is not working and it actually the opposite of loose. It is very strict and puting too much pressure on players. Man mark, but at the right time with the conditions, you need to switch to zone and your linemates need to follow as well. Zone is much easier for players to follow and they can use loose concept for offense
- line combos, we literally ended up with Anderson on 1st line after 3 years even if everyone on this planet sees this is not working. Actually, I am quite satisfied with Anderson this year, but the reason is, he is playing PK and 3rd line duties. I understand that lack of talent in the squad is a big complication.
- double standard for vets, Matheson can cause trillion turnovers and still play 25 mins per game while Xhekaj is punished for the same thing. Not even talking about guys like Dvorak, Armia, Savard this season...
- his team is lacking effort, but the one guys who is embodiment of effort is being healthy scratched. I am not saying that Pezzetta will save this team, but you just need to send some message.
I am not saying they should fire MSL, but these are red flags that concern me a lot. We are heading to 3rd consecutive bottom 5 finish and it is not about the players only. They will not fire him, but he needs to start evolving if he wants the extention in summer 2027, because at that time he will have no excuses.

Every once in a while someone writes a post that I completely agree with. Thanks

Why don't they give us a trillions time like button......this post sums it all

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

The simple mistakes aren’t helping but I’ve been watching disorganization and confusion this season so far. Whatever St. Louis is trying to to implement isn’t working. It looks like he’s trying to run 3 different systems at once. Outside of Montreal he has no coaching experience at all. You would think he’d be trying to keep it as simple as possible but instead he’s trying to run something so complex that the fans and even the players don’t understand it.

The team is lost right now. No argument there. How much is inexperience/player mistakes vs coaching I’m not sure.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

You sir are the King of excuses, better than most doesn't mean much if you compare with the worst.

Excuses? I just blamed the players directly for bad play. There’s no excuse for the fact that they can’t make a pass. They are accountable for that shit.

 

[Just Linda]

Fair enough but at what cost?

At no cost other than more tired players.

Fixing the forecheck didn't really have a negative on the team, it's not the reason why Mailloux has one of the bottom 5 defensive metrics in the league and why our players are missing defensive assignments as much as they are. The change to the style we play puts more pressure on individual players than what we did before and some players benefit more from the passive neutral zone trap we played, Wifi and Kap being the two that come to mind, but a passive neutral zone trap isn't the kind of system that will win in the playoffs when this team becomes a lot better in a couple years.

It is the reason why players like Gallagher and Anderson look like competent NHLers this year after looking like rubbish last year, the team looks better when it's playing a competitive style of hockey (even when its not getting the results yet).

 

[Whitesnake]

At least this management isn't the past management....that's great to see.

https://x.com/i/web/status/1853455300281442579

 

[Catanddogguitarrr]

Team is disorganized and also not executing simple plays. It’s one thing to say the system is wrong or that it takes time to learn - but the players should be shot for the way they’ve played too. Simple pass execution… it’s brutal. Some of these guys look like they’ve never played hockey.

Bring back Roy. Put him on the 2nd, see if that helps.

As much as I would like Roy, I would let the team as it is, let them sunk. Let Roy in Laval developp and become even stronger and more complete. His goals and all the good things he has done was in ahl and from what I saw recently, the caliber of ahl is pretty low compared with nhl. I would let Laval stay a strong team, who knows, maybe they will all grow and become an abundance of nhl players.

 

[salbutera]

At least this management isn't the past management....that's great to see.

https://x.com/i/web/status/1853455300281442579

Furthermore, a “serious coaching problem” would go hand in hand w the head coach having an extreme ego and taking offense of an outsider joining the fold to provide assistance…

 

[Sorinth]

Posters were upset at the coaches prior to MSL because they insisted players (like Caufield) play a 200 foot game. In comes MSL and he gives the fans what they asked for - he let the players loose. He gave you exactly what you wanted.

Now the fans want MSL gone.

When things aren't going well it's always a lose-lose situation with coaches.

The same fans complaining about not calling a timeout to stop an early blowout would be the same ones to blame the coach for not having the timeout to challenge a questionable goal later in the same game. Fans complain about a lack of team toughness and how Anderson in particular is a disappointment in that department. But then MSL rewards Anderson for sticking up for a teammate and it's complaints about bad line combos.

Many posters just want to blame someone and will just pick whatever the topic of the day is without actually having a grounded opinion about the topic. They want a fully zone-d not because they actually have logical reasons for it being better, but simply because we aren't doing it, if we were playing zone D and struggling they would complain about not using man to man.

 

[Tyson]

When things aren't going well it's always a lose-lose situation with coaches.

The same fans complaining about not calling a timeout to stop an early blowout would be the same ones to blame the coach for not having the timeout to challenge a questionable goal later in the same game. Fans complain about a lack of team toughness and how Anderson in particular is a disappointment in that department. But then MSL rewards Anderson for sticking up for a teammate and it's complaints about bad line combos.

Many posters just want to blame someone and will just pick whatever the topic of the day is without actually having a grounded opinion about the topic. They want a fully zone-d not because they actually have logical reasons for it being better, but simply because we aren't doing it, if we were playing zone D and struggling they would complain about not using man to man.

Compete and effort, win or lose. Stand up for your teammates, win or lose.

 

[salbutera]

When things aren't going well it's always a lose-lose situation with coaches.

The same fans complaining about not calling a timeout to stop an early blowout would be the same ones to blame the coach for not having the timeout to challenge a questionable goal later in the same game. Fans complain about a lack of team toughness and how Anderson in particular is a disappointment in that department. But then MSL rewards Anderson for sticking up for a teammate and it's complaints about bad line combos.

Many posters just want to blame someone and will just pick whatever the topic of the day is without actually having a grounded opinion about the topic. They want a fully zone-d not because they actually have logical reasons for it being better, but simply because we aren't doing it, if we were playing zone D and struggling they would complain about not using man to man.

And the genesis of that thinking is the idealistic view of what a rebuild is vs the reality of time required to go through the actual rebuild process

Compete and effort, win or lose. Stand up for your teammates, win or lose.

Legendary Stevie Y didn’t have much of either until Scotty took him to the back of the shed & read him the riot act…. over 8-years into his NHL career - Yzerman wasn’t anywhere near the only NHLer to have needed time to learn & grow into what it means to be an actual NHL pro w dedication to winning as a team

Maturity takes time - more for many than the few

 

[Sorinth]

Compete and effort, win or lose. Stand up for your teammates, win or lose.

Which is exactly the qualities Anderson displayed when he fought Wilson, got rewarded for doing by MSL, and that you complained about here

GDT: - Game 12: Montreal Canadiens vs Pittsburgh Penguins 11/2/24 7:00pm EST CITY, SN, TVAS

A loss tonight will move us into the top league wide.

forums.hfboards.com

Thanks for proving my point!

 

[Tyson]

Which is exactly the qualities Anderson displayed when he fought Wilson, got rewarded for doing by MSL, and that you complained about here

GDT: - Game 12: Montreal Canadiens vs Pittsburgh Penguins 11/2/24 7:00pm EST CITY, SN, TVAS

A loss tonight will move us into the top league wide.

forums.hfboards.com

Thanks for proving my point!

Yeah Anderson does it every 30 games. I was not trying to argue with you btw...as someone who supports the rebuild I want a team to show compete and effort.

 

[Vachon23]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1853465549659144301

 

[Theodore450]

MSL is lowkey a scam artist

Regardless of the results, I'm just glad MSL charged the forecheck. The sit back and trap system of the past few years was so much against what made the Canadiens fun the last few years, it made some of our players look so much worse.

I'm loving the forecheck of this year, I hope we continue it.

Our forecheck is not existent ? What are you talking about

 

[Sorinth]

Yeah Anderson does it every 30 games. I was not trying to argue with you btw...as someone who supports the rebuild I want a team to show compete and effort.

And how does a coach get his team to show compete and effort if not through usage? If wanting the team to show compete and effort was more important to you then laughing at/criticizing the coach then you would've actually supported Anderson getting that top line opportunity. So as much as you say you want to see that stuff (And I'm sure you do), you just want to hate on MSL more.