The Martin St Louis Thread

[ReHabs]

Not doing it....

It’s fine to disagree.

I think I’m too jaded to think this team, that hasn’t qualified for a single playoff game, is on the right path just because the management seems to sometimes say things that sound right.

I think until there is further evidence, we are in the same boat as SJS and CHI and other such teams. Maybe things will change, and we can look at the smouldering ruins of another team and laugh. BUF are worthy of mockery, OTT too (though: ownership change). I’d say TOR is the most laughable team in the league.

 

[HabbyGuy]

It’s fine to disagree.

It's just hard to be reasonable to the irrational at times, it feels like a fools errand.

 

[ReHabs]

It's just hard to be reasonable to the irrational at times, it feels like a fools errand.

Fanatically cheering for losing is irrational^2. We gotta make the best of it.

 

[HabbyGuy]

Fanatically cheering for losing is irrational^2. We gotta make the best of it.

Who's cheering for losing? Sure as hell not me.

It's going to take time to be a real competitor though.

Fortunately we have time and help is on the way.

What we really need to make the best of is the process.

Not whatever this thread is.

 

[Naslund]

I don't know how anyone who watches this team on the regular and in the past month in particular, can say the team isn't playing with structure. It's ludicrous.

This thread man, it literally drives me crazy, it's so f***ing stupidly annoying. The multitude of ridiculous posts I could quote in it is staggering. Especially early on.

I'm sorry I'm even reacting to it.

I honestly apologize. Y'all just carry on. I think I just need to avoid it altogether, for my own sanity.

Best to avoid this thread.

 

[ReHabs]

Who's cheering for losing? Sure as hell not me.

It's going to take time to be a real competitor though.

Fortunately we have time and help is on the way.

What we really need to make the best of is the process.

Not whatever this thread is.

Do you really feel like MSL’s coaching is preparing the Habs to become a real competitor?

 

[dcyhabs]

It’s fine to disagree.

I think I’m too jaded to think this team, that hasn’t qualified for a single playoff game, is on the right path just because the management seems to sometimes say things that sound right.

I think until there is further evidence, we are in the same boat as SJS and CHI and other such teams. Maybe things will change, and we can look at the smouldering ruins of another team and laugh. BUF are worthy of mockery, OTT too (though: ownership change). I’d say TOR is the most laughable team in the league.

Chicago and SJ are quite different. Chicago tanked hard and got picks, the Sharks are not getting traction. The habs probably need two more years and/or one year and some luck plus signings. The team is not overflowing with players, even after rushing guys.

 

[HabbyGuy]

Do you really feel like MSL’s coaching is preparing the Habs to become a real competitor?

I believe Marty has done well with helping individuals become better, Slaf, Caufield, Dach (before his injury) even Newhook was progressing last year as well before he got hurt. Matheson despite his warts had his best season last yeat with Marty at the helm. Suzuki continues to grow every year. Xhekaj is slowly progressing and looking better every day. Etc..

I believe Marty believes he can do it, I believe he has the energy and determination to want to do it, and I believe he deserves the chance to prove if he can or can't do it.

I believe Marty is the perfect coach for Laine with the way he approaches his leadership and guidance.

I believe Marty was dealt a tough hand to start the season with a gaping hole in the 2C spot with Monahans departure and Dachs return from injury. I believe his D got younger and took a hit with losing Kovacevic and Harris. I believe Laine's injury was also a blow to the team from the start.

I believe Marty has navigated the troubling start as well as he could and has seemingly got the team back headed in the right direction.

Will he ultimately be able to bring this team to much greater heights only time will tell. But I do know the players love playing for him and he most certainly has not lost the room.

He's a fantastic human being and a born winner, there are far worse choices you'd want your young men to want to emulate and learn from.

That is what I believe, and I like to think the players and management believe that too.

 

[dcyhabs]

Do you really feel like MSL’s coaching is preparing the Habs to become a real competitor?

More so than Therrien or any of the other “play old vets and grind it out” coaches? Yes.

When it comes down to it they should have given Guhle and Slaf, at least, time in the minors to develop and not get concussed. The team should be worse, short term, not better. Rushing to win before the prospect pipeline is full is how you get ghe Sabres, Blue Jackets, and Sharks.

Destination markets, like Vegas, some Florida teans, and NYR, can take short cuts. Montreal may get interest once the team is good, but players won’t come here to lose and get grilled by our spoiled media organizations.

 

[salbutera]

More so than Therrien or any of the other “play old vets and grind it out” coaches? Yes.

When it comes down to it they should have given Guhle and Slaf, at least, time in the minors to develop and not get concussed. The team should be worse, short term, not better. Rushing to win before the prospect pipeline is full is how you get ghe Sabres, Blue Jackets, and Sharks.

Destination markets, like Vegas, some Florida teans, and NYR, can take short cuts. Montreal may get interest once the team is good, but players won’t come here to lose and get grilled by our spoiled media organizations.

It’s a business not a circle jerk for Habs fanatics.

Lack of thrust for playoffs = $$$$ unnecessarily lo$t, just need 1-2 rounds, Cup is nothing more than a nicety

 

[ReHabs]

I believe Marty has done well with helping individuals become better, Slaf, Caufield, Dach (before his injury) even Newhook was progressing last year as well before he got hurt. Matheson despite his warts had his best season last yeat with Marty at the helm. Suzuki continues to grow every year. Xhekaj is slowly progressing and looking better every day. Etc..

Not looking to bicker about name by name, I'm sure you're 100% satisfied by Xhekaj's slow but steady growth, but you seem to forget this is this season and that was last season. All your references are to last season.

I believe Dach, Guhle, Newhook, Barron, Struble, Xhekaj -> are performing the same or worse than last year. Among the vets it is a more mixed bag: Matheson, Savard, and Monty are in the same boat as the younger players. Anderson, Gallagher, and Evans improved over last year.

More so than Therrien or any of the other “play old vets and grind it out” coaches? Yes.

Very high standards you have.

When it comes down to it they should have given Guhle and Slaf, at least, time in the minors to develop and not get concussed. The team should be worse, short term, not better. Rushing to win before the prospect pipeline is full is how you get ghe Sabres, Blue Jackets, and Sharks.

I was damn near crucified for thinking Slafkovsky needed time elsewhere when he was eating hits and getting hurt in his rookie season. Otherwise, I don't think they're rushing prospects really -- Hutson looks ready for NHL speed and as for Guhle I dunno if he's topped out or not (I hope not).

Destination markets, like Vegas, some Florida teans, and NYR, can take short cuts. Montreal may get interest once the team is good, but players won’t come here to lose and get grilled by our spoiled media organizations.

Our media isn't grilling anyone. Look at the free ride Newhook's enjoying.

 

[dcyhabs]

Not looking to bicker about name by name, I'm sure you're 100% satisfied by Xhekaj's slow but steady growth, but you seem to forget this is this season and that was last season. All your references are to last season.

I believe Dach, Guhle, Newhook, Barron, Struble, Xhekaj -> are performing the same or worse than last year. Among the vets it is a more mixed bag: Matheson, Savard, and Monty are in the same boat as the younger players. Anderson, Gallagher, and Evans improved over last year.

Very high standards you have.

I was damn near crucified for thinking Slafkovsky needed time elsewhere when he was eating hits and getting hurt in his rookie season. Otherwise, I don't think they're rushing prospects really -- Hutson looks ready for NHL speed and as for Guhle I dunno if he's topped out or not (I hope not).


Our media isn't grilling anyone. Look at the free ride Newhook's enjoying.

I’m more worried about some of the hits they took. Slaf was getting hammered his first year, and Guhle’s been hurt a lot. Hutson seems to be coping better, but he got a little more time and has had to cope with bigger faster players his whole life.

I doubt it was a conscious decision that either was ready, more that there were spots to fill in the nhl. Once the habs have some depth they’ll be able to be patient.

 

[Guy Larose]

I don't know how anyone who watches this team on the regular and in the past month in particular, can say the team isn't playing with structure. It's ludicrous.

This thread man, it literally drives me crazy, it's so f***ing stupidly annoying. The multitude of ridiculous posts I could quote in it is staggering. Especially early on.

I'm sorry I'm even reacting to it.

I honestly apologize. Y'all just carry on. I think I just need to avoid it altogether, for my own sanity.

Just this thread? Most of this board is unbearable with people flip-flopping on a daily basis with hot takes and bad takes. Some people live on here just for that and should maybe go touch grass...or snow, depending on the case.

 

[River Meadow]

If only we knew of another team that tried to tank on one end and speed up the process with crap players like Newhook on the other end.

Oh well, I guess we’ll never know.

We're cooked.

 

[Draft]

More regressed than those. Team as a whole very underachieve. Lack of system.

Which ones? Underachieved relative to what? No team is going to see consistent success or play structured hockey with Evans as your second best center and four rookies on defence.

Suzuki
Caufield
Slafkovsky
Guhle
Heineman
Hutson
Xhekaj
Struble
Kapanen

Dach
Newhook
Barron
(Roy)

These are the young players on the team. Dach (due to injury IMO) and Newhook are the only two that I would confidently say have seen big set backs in their performance this year - never mind significant growth the year previous. Relying on them in key roles has sunk the team so far, but this is more a roster depth issue than a coaching one. Barron hasn't gotten more consistent since he was acquired, so I wouldn't necessarily call it regression but I included him anyway as ideally we'd see changes there. Roy hasn't been in the NHL this year so I'm not sure I'd hang his lack of growth on MSL. The rest have either improved or are showing normal levels of inconsistency relative to their age/upside.

Just because you can't identify the system or how it functions, doesn't mean there isn't a system in place. At the end of the day, comments like that say a lot more about your understanding of the game than about MSL's coaching. We've seen players become more comfortable and committed to playing within this structure in the last handful of weeks. We've seen more consistency from our inexperienced players as they've adjusted and the last two games have shown what can happen when players are put in appropriate roles.

I haven't agreed with all of MSL's choices, but despite having very clear deficits in key areas on our roster, he's consistently made adjustments to move things in a better direction. Special teams was a big focus during the offseason and we've performed very well in that area despite limited personnel options. We struggled immensely with 5v5 defence to start the year and have found ways to adjust. In my opinion, there's been a good mix of patience, increased opportunity, and accountability for young players across the board. While it would be great to see guys like Dvorak/Armia/Anderson/Matheson perform at a higher level, a lack of experienced depth hurts our ability to promote/demote current vets. Hutson was given the opportunity to earn his way onto the top PP unit and that was my biggest issue to date.

I'm more curious about what MSL could do with a good roster than I am worried about our current roster having growing pains.

 

[HabbyGuy]

Our media isn't grilling anyone. Look at the free ride Newhook's enjoying.

Pretty crazy when even the sport's worst media understands where the habs are in the process and see that more patience is required.

 

[ReHabs]

Pretty crazy when even the sport's worst media understands where the habs are in the process and see that more patience is required.

So why act like the players are under scrutiny? They’re not. It’s a free ride for everyone.

Fans who want to see more than this get informed that they’re bad fans by other fans. You couldn’t ask for an easier gig for the GM or Coach. They’re laughing.

 

[nhlfan9191]

So why act like the players are under scrutiny? They’re not. It’s a free ride for everyone.

Fans who want to see more than this get informed that they’re bad fans by other fans. You couldn’t ask for an easier gig for the GM or Coach. They’re laughing.

You aren’t a “bad fan.” You don’t believe in the process of the rebuild is what I take away from your posts and I get that. There’s lots to be sceptical of right now. But I think we should see how this plays out before blasting the managers. They weren’t put in a good position to succeed. We knew Bergevin’s mess was eventually going to have to be cleaned up and it’s not surprising that it’s going to likely take 5+ years to completely rid ourselves of his stench. There’s things to criticize Hugo over, but it’s certainly not doomsday yet.

 

[dcyhabs]

Pretty crazy when even the sport's worst media understands where the habs are in the process and see that more patience is required.

It really is. Most years the media would be scapegoating a bunch of players locally and bitching at the coach. This year most of the bad takes are coming from Toronto media trying to convince Hughes that he's in a desperate situation and should try to trade their next first round pick for minimal short term help.

The faster the rebuild the more likely the habs are to get stuck as a playoff bubble team for many years. You don't want a permanent rebuild but you have to get to a point where all the NHL spots are filled with guys you are happy with, and also 2-3 prospects pushing for a chance. Once they get there options will open up a bit.

A lot of the young guys are looking good. The main problem is that good teams can force play in the habs zone. They just don't have the guys, right now, to push back. They are going to need a big, strong top D, and probably another big guy, just to make the zone a little less accommodating.

Pretty much everyone will look worse as long as the team is not competing and they don't have more solid D, a better second line, and a few more physical players. Look at Dadanov, he was terrible for his time here, but he's fine in Dallas, not stellar, certainly, but fine. It's the difference between playing on a weak team and trying not to get hurt versus playing on a good team that can get you looks and expecting playoffs. A couple of guys like Demidov who are able to open some space for other guys will make a big difference as well.

 

[ReHabs]

A lot of the young guys are looking good.

I dunno man, it feels like beating a dead horse but how is this false narrative of nonstop progress and growth so persistent?

 

[ReHabs]

[post]

I think the process of the rebuild is worth criticizing specifically because of the bad performances this year. We all thought the one goal results of last year would tilt our way, but it’s gotten worse.

Individually, most moves and decisions are justifiable but when there’s such a case where so many players are poorly prepared and poorly progressing this year we can’t just shrug and say there’s nothing to criticise and we should sit down happily.

 

[TT1]

Savard + Dach = tank commanders

 

[habdynasty]

Savard gets a free pass. He is terrible.

 

[Gaylord Q Tinkledink]

You don't see the players running around as much.

Then again, 2 of the last 3 games have been against not so good teams.

 

[dcyhabs]

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I dunno man, it feels like beating a dead horse but how is this false narrative of nonstop progress and growth so persistent?

Growth isn't nonstop and some prospects haven't grown as we'd hoped yet. Slaf is having a pretty tough year so far. Most of the young guys are young enough that we can still expect some improvement as they age, and the team has enough holes that it's reasonable to expect many players to improve if those holes ever get filled.

The problem is that most of the holes are roles like "top 2 D" and "play driving forward, ideally a center," that is to say holes that may not be filled properly any time soon. It's really easy for rebuilding teams to say "this player has not produced as we projected, we'll trade him for whatever we can get and draft someone else." Watch that player go to a good team that can put him on a line with other players who can open space, including some who need to be double covered, and watch the dumped player score now that he has some space.

I'm not talking about guys like Hyman who dig pucks for generational players and whose stats vanish if that player has a minimal decline, more Florida and Colorado who can pick up good players from bad teams and make them look good.

The habs have to hang on until they get more play drivers. Some may develop, but it is going to be a major challenge. most teams don't give up such players intentionally.