The Loss of Broberg and Holloway Gripe Thread

[Drivesaitl]

The logic some of you share that if we are not a professional in the area of conversation that we could not possibly have anything to offer or be correct is completely false.

This is the type of thinking and attitude that leads to a complete lack of innovation and recycling of the same ideas and the we have always done it this way type of mentality.

Pros don’t always know better. A lot of the time sure they will know better than us but we get it right sometimes and they don’t.

I am not taking about the posters who operate on hindsight , I am talking about the ones who in the moment have the correct take that holds up to be true for years. Like the Griffin R trade. My friend and I screamed at the TV during our draft what a terrible move. Held true. We were not pros they were.

My example that I find most interesting is that after watching us suck for awhile at drafting my friend and I started drafting along side the Oilers. Live in the moment we drafted our choice tracked on spreadsheets. All we had was draft guides. We did this over a 10 year period and blew the Oilers drafting out of the water in round one. Wash in round two and three. Oilers did better in four onward. Could be some skill or instinct in our part or could just be some luck too.

My point is dismissing people because only a pro knows best is ignorance. There are some incredible people that are smart and have lots to offer and to ignore that is ridiculous.

JJ himself acknowledged the org blew it on the prospects and offersheets. That they had not properly managed the players, given them enough time, and that it was likely given that the players would be looking elsewhere to get the roles they want in the NHL. The team acknowledged they didn't have proper prospect management team or assessment and they basically slept on it. We're not talking just about some prospects but two players that were considered blue chip and that were going to be NHL players, and good NHL players.

In the case of either its not just that. Its that the upside is that they could both be star NHL players. The org f***ed this up so monumentally that any other time than the McD or Drai era and there would be inquisition from fans on how the org allowed this to happen.

I mean this is HFboards and its the worst bleed off of top Oilers talent prospects I remember. A related concern is how little the org is even benefitting from ELC contracts and time frame where they could be playing their prospects cheap in the lineup and growing their games (as good orgs should) vs just parking them in bakersfield while they sign handfuls of Derek Ryans. Its kind of deplorable.

 

[Drivesaitl]

The funniest part is that there actually was a recent case where the Oilers were the smartest guys in the room. Paul Coffey wanted us to take Wyatt Johnston in 2021 (coached him with the Toronto Marlboros in AAA) which would've been an even better choice than what fans wanted (Wallstedt). Instead, Tyler Wright and Ken Holland had other ideas and took Xavier Bourgault. Looking at what Coffey did with our defense these past two years, maybe we should've just let him run the team.

Smartest man in the room. Coffey and Mess were the brightest former Oilers and Coffey has lived well, i.e. preserving brain cells (not like imbibing Gretz) and was the first to figure out the Oilers were being contractually ripped off by Peter Puck. Thus Coffey being first to holdout and first to leave. But again smartest enough to read the tea leaves and make prudent decisions. Didn't cost him in his career or cup wins either really. Still won 4 cups despite leaving a dynasty.

Took a long time to get my head around that but glad Coffey is back. Took the org too a long time to get around having Coffey back in the fold. He's not really part of the OBC network.

 

[Mcnotloilersfan]

Media should question Bowman about Holloway when He shows his face next time. Every single fan and Media personnel locked Holloway in for a no Brainer match. This weasel had other ideas. Everyone could see the burgeoning talent and chemistry with Drai, except this guy. Dumb gm decisions need to be called out directly.

It was a poor decision for sure, however, I imagine he isn't allowed to discuss Holloway at this point.

 

[Drivesaitl]

The Broberg offersheet always made sense not to match cause the team couldn’t afford it or the risk.

Holloway was always the one that made sense to match. And the fact that we let him go, he is doing very well and his replacement is the worst player on our roster is a problem.

Not much we can do now but this org is addicted to holding onto bad prospects till they bust and let good ones go super early.

Yep. The optics of not deciding to match either, and lose both outright, you'd have to think that even the org realized this was going to blow up in their face, but neglected anyway. So weird. Worse, that seemingly the org didn't even know who they had in either, despite drafting them and having them as property all these years. Speaks also to an org in disarray for years where managers/staff/scouts chance so much that continuity of plan and with respect of players and assets is less than ideal.

People generally love younger players, up and coming players. I'd wonder how many Holloway and Broberg jerseys are selling in STL and there would have of course been more in this hockey mad market. Keeping prospects is also the best way to keep young people interested in teams, and in the game, because they see players that are young on their team, and maybe even being significant players on their team. If I'm a teen identifying with Holloway or Broberg then its even harder to fathom that the org just lost both outright, that the org showed so little concern about that even as it was happening. One thing is certain that the org and fans in STL are excited about having Broberg and Holloway the broadcasts feature on that quite a lot. They see these two as big additions, as significant players and its sad this didn't even occur with the Oilers brass.

 

[McShogun99]

Media should question Bowman about Holloway when He shows his face next time. Every single fan and Media personnel locked Holloway in for a no Brainer match. This weasel had other ideas. Everyone could see the burgeoning talent and chemistry with Drai, except this guy. Dumb gm decisions need to be called out directly.

I think they didn't match out of spite. They were probably like, F him, if he wants to sign with another team, not have McDrai as his centers and not make the playoffs for years then let him. I don't think that they envisioned he'd be doing as good as he is playing with lesser players in STL plus he wasn't a JJ/Bowman pick so easier to let go.

 

[Pip]

Broberg I believe would have crumbled under the pressure of his new contract here if they would have matched. Holloway is the one that got away.

 

[Drivesaitl]

I think they didn't match out of spite. They were probably like, F him, if he wants to sign with another team, not have McDrai as his centers and not make the playoffs for years then let him. I don't think that they envisioned he'd be doing as good as he is playing with lesser players in STL plus he wasn't a JJ/Bowman pick so easier to let go.

I don't think this was the reason and I sure hope not. Its a fan view, its not a management view. JJ himself is an agent, the last thing he would be thinking is "f*** a player for wanting to be paid or valued" JJ spelled it out. The org slept on how good these players could be. They perhaps thought they were marginal players and not bonafide good players. Strange that they would. Holloway particularly was good when up last year and was certainly good in Bakersfield. Its like they weren't even paying attention. Holloway scored 21G up and down and including playoffs for the org last season in 81GP as a 22yr old. How does a pro org not even notice?

 

[Trafalgar Sadge Law]

Broberg I believe would have crumbled under the pressure of his new contract here if they would have matched. Holloway is the one that got away.

Broberg is crumbling so hard under the pressure of his new contract that he plays over 20 minutes a night, leads his team in +/-, and has the best possession numbers among their top 4 dmen.

 

[tiger_80]

In hindsight, letting go of Holloway looks like a mistake, but we have a precedent of overpaying players for next to no production: Puljujarvi $3 million, Yamamoto $3, McLeod $2.25, Chiasson $2.2. Even McLeod originally accepted a one-year, minimum wage deal. Was Holloway too good for that? Hell, he had less production than any of the aforementioned players. I can understand why management didn't want to replicate that mistake, especially in a tight cup window.

Let's hope Podkolzin puts it together. He could be as good.

I think the issue is that this team gambled on a player they werent familiar with (Skinner) instead of running with a player they were not only familiar with but they had an investment in with Holloway.
This team seems to do this a lot...investing in a player and developing the player only to trade that player away just before that player adjusts to the NHL.
Its very poor assest management.

In terms of their Stanley Cup aspirations....a contending team needs a couple of young players in the middle 6...especially if they have the grit and speed like Holloway has.
Its really hard to justify why this team made the decision to sign Skinner at $3M and let Holloway walk.
Both are clear mistakes.

I think they gambled on Skinner expecting to lock Holloway automatically. Holloway kind of screwed them after they launched his NHL career.

Broberg I believe would have crumbled under the pressure of his new contract here if they would have matched. Holloway is the one that got away.

Nah, both are doing great in St.Louis and would be doing good on the Oilers. However, neither would probably be putting the same numbers. Broberg would not be playing 20 minutes on the Oilers (behind Ekholm, Nurse, Bouchard, and maybe Kulak in ice time), and Holloways would be limited to 3rd line duty and occasional shifts with big guys.

 

[Shanahanigans]

I know many don’t care for player cards but man this is gonna sting for a long time. We gave up on a this player at 22 because we didn’t want to pay him 2 mill. He’s on a Brandon Hagel trajectory, very similar play styles. Look at that improvement !

 

[guymez]

I think they gambled on Skinner expecting to lock Holloway automatically. Holloway kind of screwed them after they launched his NHL career.

I dont necessarily agree with that take. If the Oilers had realized what they had in Holloway (a younger faster version of Kane) they would have made absolutely sure to lock the player up.

Identifying and properly valuing a players potential when the player has been in your own system should be a no brainer.

 

[tiger_80]

I dont necessarily agree with that take. If the Oilers had realized what they had in Holloway (a younger faster version of Kane) they would have made absolutely sure to lock the player up.

Identifying and properly valuing a players potential when the player has been in your own system should be a no brainer.

Who knows. He looked good in the playoffs, and it is a puzzle that they did not try to get him under contract, given that he's their own first rounder, who was trending in the right direction.

 

[guymez]

Who knows. He looked good in the playoffs, and it is a puzzle that they did not try to get him under contract, given that he's their own first rounder, who was trending in the right direction.

Exactly.
Holloway (a player this team already had) would virtually emliniate the need to add functional heaviness to the bottom 6 at the TDL.
Its extremely disappointing how this team manages to shoot itself in the foot and be its own wrost enemy in terms of winning the Cup.

The Campbell signing was an absolute massive kick in this teams junk by Holland. Thats why this team had to run with Skinner as a #1 goalie and currently has a goaltending issue. It is essentially stuck with what it has in net and it all stems back to Campbell...the gift that just keeps on giving.
.
The Holloway fiasco is part of the same fabric.
A blunder by management to not recognize how to properly address a team need. Holloway is exactly what this team needs and they pissed him away.

These are the type of things that will prevent this team from being a SC winner.
Its hard enough to win the SC but when your management group shoots the team in the foot every year then.....

 

[Mr Positive]

Broberg I believe would have crumbled under the pressure of his new contract here if they would have matched. Holloway is the one that got away.

Broberg was going to be pushed hard to be Nurse's partner and so would have likely seen the kind of success Kulak had next to Nurse, but Broberg is the better talent and may have caught fire. Holloway might have broken out too, but maybe not if he wouldn't have got the same push up the roster. Management and coaching saw him as a bottom six player.

Ultimately management didn't match on either, and it looks to me that it's because they wanted to set up a culture of players picking to be here and leaving some money on the table in exchange for success. Holloway deserved more than what we offered but not what St. Louis did. But mostly, both Broberg and Holloway publicly declared that they wanted off of this team by signing those offer sheets. Neither player matched the culture we wanted

 

[Drivesaitl]

I know many don’t care for player cards but man this is gonna sting for a long time. We gave up on a this player at 22 because we didn’t want to pay him 2 mill. He’s on a Brandon Hagel trajectory, very similar play styles. Look at that improvement !
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Yeah. but Holloway was figuring it out last season here and in bakersfield, and in playoffs, the hardest time to be figuring it out.

Last night he scores a simple goal, but a goal scorers goal. he plays the puck, then moves to where puck is going to rebound to, and then calmly swats it in. This is a player with hands reading ice. A lot of his goals have been harder than that but last night its just taking up a good spot around net like Hyman or Nuge would, and he's only 23. He's learning many ways to score in this league. He's always had other intangible qualities to his game as well, and foremost I used to love that he was from Calgary, and was an Oiler. So that it obviously would've been nice as an Edmontonian to have this guy as a career Oiler. This guy will have a good career. Only some fluke career ending injury would stop that.

 

[McDNicks17]

Broberg is crumbling so hard under the pressure of his new contract that he plays over 20 minutes a night, leads his team in +/-, and has the best possession numbers among their top 4 dmen.

Are you surprised he has better numbers while playing half the minutes against elite comp that Parayko and Fowler do?

 

[Drivesaitl]

Are you surprised he has better numbers while playing half the minutes against elite comp that Parayko and Fowler do?

Fowler has been a Blue just recently. I'm sure you and I know this is a dubious point that doesn't explain much of the seasonal usage of players thus far. Broberg has been fine in STL and it seems so hard to admit that, or that he would be likely doing fine here.

So either you're not aware Fowler has been a recent addition or you're purposely being misleading.

 

[McDNicks17]

Fowler has been a Blue just recently. I'm sure you and I know this is a dubious point that doesn't explain much of the seasonal usage of players thus far. Broberg has been fine in STL and it seems so hard to admit that, or that he would be likely doing fine here.

So either you're not aware Fowler has been a recent addition or you're purposely being misleading.

Duh lol.

Broberg has played a little over 1/3rd of his season with Fowler on the Blues and his usage has kept going down to the point he's splitting time in the top4 with Ryan Suter.

People are in here pumping his tires over a game that he played 14 minutes of 5v5 in haha.

 

[Yuke]

Duh lol.

Broberg has played a little over 1/3rd of his season with Fowler and his usage has kept going down to the point he's splitting time in the top4 with Ryan Suter.

People are in here pumping his tires over a game that he played 14 minutes of 5v5 in haha.

Both players came in hot with something to prove. Let's see where they are near seasons end.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Both players came in hot with something to prove. Let's see where they are near seasons end.

Holloway has already scored as many goals as Pods will, or has in a season in his career high. This after just 39GP. He might hit 30G, he's a lock for 25.

None of the forwards we brought in will likely match Holloways total. They might not match his total after 39 games, lol

 

[McShogun99]

Duh lol.

Broberg has played a little over 1/3rd of his season with Fowler on the Blues and his usage has kept going down to the point he's splitting time in the top4 with Ryan Suter.

People are in here pumping his tires over a game that he played 14 minutes of 5v5 in haha.

Those are big minutes compared to when he’d play 3 minutes a game here.

 

[TheNumber4]

This is stupid, quite frankly, sorry but it is.

Henrique has been good in his role, getting a little tiresome reading stuff like this as if he's been some sort of detriment to team success. Please, learn to understand the roles of a #3C on this particular team in this system. Henrique has been doing exactly what's been asked of him after a bit of a rough patch to start the season when even McDavid was struggling.

Skinner I get, he's sort of been an anchor on any line he's been on but he also hasn't been deployed correctly for a long time now.
Anybody who thinks Henrique has been bad because they only look at goal totals or some of the fancy stats really don't understand his role on this hockey team. Sorry to be harsh but it's the truth.

Similar argument could have been made for Mcleod. Unless you think Henriques extra 1 hit per game makes huge difference.

 

[Stoneman89]

Similar argument could have been made for Mcleod. Unless you think Henriques extra 1 hit per game makes huge difference.

I never had a problem with moving on from McLeod and I still don't. Our PK is trending towards it's elite status from last years playoff run, and neither player ripping it up offensively. I'm not sure McLeod ever had even one hit in his entire career here, and his game is a shining example of perimeter play. Not to mention, he doesn't have the luxury anymore of getting some premium time with a player like Drai to pad his stats a bit.

 

[Bring Back Bucky]

The gal I dumped at a school dance back in the 80s moved on quicker than some of you guys. Ans just imagine how terrible it must have been for her.

 

[Trafalgar Sadge Law]

Are you surprised he has better numbers while playing half the minutes against elite comp that Parayko and Fowler do?

He has better numbers against elite comp than Parayko does lololol, In fact he does better than every Blues top 4 dman option except Fowler who has only played 9 games for the Blues and has by all accounts been genuinely playing great for them. Just stop with the anti Broberg and anti Holloway agenda, it's getting old and honestly quite laughable at this point. To the point where Blues fans literally come onto this thread to link your posts and meme about them on their own boards.