The Loss of Broberg and Holloway Gripe Thread

[AM]

Disagree. He was a 3 time letter guy a very rare thing for Team Sweden U20. Quality personal and leadership attributes recognized by their national level coaching. Cited positively by Oiler coaching and leadership group stepping into deep playoff competition and aiding their success.

Good character. Stalled in a mature phase organization that has had pretty extreme volatility that cost two coaches their jobs. Stepped up in deep playoffs when called upon. The market recognized the potential, character and value which through Oiler inaction opened the door to a cheap offer sheet scenario. He's establishing himself as a solid top 4 NHL d-man with some latent potential that could reach top pair within his peak years window.

I don’t think he's a married yet.

He showed what he cares about.

 

[WhiskeyEE]

What does our record these past 10 games have to do with my statement? Henrique and Skinner are sure as f*** not contributors to that success and in fact are active detriments to our team's ability to win games right now. It's ridiculous to suggest otherwise.

I haven't heard much about Henrique being bad. His offensive production isn't great obviously, but that may be more due to his wingers.

Skinner on the other hand seems to be on ice for way too many goals against and not many goals for. Henrique is a +4 and Skinner -10.

 

[AM]

I haven't heard much about Henrique being bad. His offensive production isn't great obviously, but that may be more due to his wingers.

Skinner on the other hand seems to be on ice for way too many goals against and not many goals for. Henrique is a +4 and Skinner -10.

Henrique is doing his job.

 

[Dazed and Confused]

Henrique is doing his job.

Yep. Unlike Skinner, Henrique at least has a role on this team and is doing it well.
More offence would be nice, but he's helped anchor the PK1 with RNH; and when he does play with Janmark and Brown at evens, you know it's a line that can go out and face top competition and not bend.


Imo Henrique's biggest problem/issue is he must be the #3C, as they have no one else that can step into the role. Rico's better when he's more fluid and can get short stints on McDavid or Drai's wing to get some gravy minutes offensively.

For example, it'd be nice to give Philp 5 to 10 games and see if he can grow into a role. If he looks good then you could occasionally run...

RNH-McDavid-Hyman
Henrique-Drai-Arvidsson (honestly I thought these 3 looked good their few shifts together)
Podz-Philp-Kap
Brown-Janmark-Perry

If Philp can't, then you know you'll need a Bjudstad or Sissons-type come the TDL.

 

[Trafalgar Sadge Law]

I haven't heard much about Henrique being bad. His offensive production isn't great obviously, but that may be more due to his wingers.

Skinner on the other hand seems to be on ice for way too many goals against and not many goals for. Henrique is a +4 and Skinner -10.

Henrique is a possession disaster and defensive liability competing with Skinner and Ryan in terms of ineffectiveness. Janmark also has bad even strength possession numbers but he's excellent value on the penalty kill, isn't paid much, and a lot of his numbers are due to playing so much with Henrique and Skinner which hurts his defensive metrics. This matches the eye test too. Just watch how often the Oilers have extended shifts in the defensive zone with Henrique on the ice. He's a defensive liability in that he doesn't necessarily blow man coverage but he makes it impossible for his dmen to get the puck out and is useless in transition both in terms of carrying it out himself and in terms of making himself an eligible passing option for breakout passes. Just too slow of a player. And as a result the Oilers spend far more time than they should in the defensive zone and concede a ton of scoring chances when he's on the ice. To be specific, he's the 2nd worst on the entire team in terms of fenwick events against, expected goals against, scoring chances against, and high danger chances against per 60 minutes ahead of only Jeff Skinner.

As for the reason Henrique is +4 and Skinner is -10 is because Henrique has a team leading PDO of 102.1 and on ice save percentage of 0.936, on a team that has largely had bad luck with puck luck and horrid goalie performances. Skinner's luck is more in line with the rest of the team with a PDO of 96.3 and an on ice save percentage of 0.900, which isn't any excuse though since he's also by far the lowest plus minus on the team at -10. Make no mistake though, if Adam Henrique had similar puck luck as the rest of the team he'd be fighting with Skinner for dead last on the team for plus minus.

Also I mean come on. I'm sure you watched the game yesterday. This guy was getting crushed in possession by the freaking San Jose Sharks, playing mostly against the Sharks' bottom 6, in a game where we nearly doubled them in shots as a team lol.

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

I don’t think he's a married yet.

He showed what he cares about.

Yup, he's playing 20 minutes a game and trusted in all situations. Fulfilling the potential we saw dropped into late Cup competition and at times through his uneven development. Big, mobile and skilled D are worth waiting on and hard to acquire. Really too bad he couldn't be a sustaining part for the Oilers blueline.

 

[Trafalgar Sadge Law]

Yep. Unlike Skinner, Henrique at least has a role on this team and is doing it well.
More offence would be nice, but he's helped anchor the PK1 with RNH; and when he does play with Janmark and Brown at evens, you know it's a line that can go out and face top competition and not bend.


Imo Henrique's biggest problem/issue is he must be the #3C, as they have no one else that can step into the role. Rico's better when he's more fluid and can get short stints on McDavid or Drai's wing to get some gravy minutes offensively.

For example, it'd be nice to give Philp 5 to 10 games and see if he can grow into a role. If he looks good then you could occasionally run...

RNH-McDavid-Hyman
Henrique-Drai-Arvidsson (honestly I thought these 3 looked good their few shifts together)
Podz-Philp-Kap
Brown-Janmark-Perry

If Philp can't, then you know you'll need a Bjudstad or Sissons-type come the TDL.

Not only is Henrique not being used as a "go out and face top competition and not bend" role, he is actually actively being deployed away from opposing top 6 forwards. You can see this with how Knob line matches too, trying to play best on best with McDavid and Draisaitl lines as much as possible. He is the lowest quality of competition "3C" we've had this decade besides rookie season Ryan McLeod and 2016-17 David Desharnais. In comparison I've also attached 2023-24 Ryan McLeod's quality of competition to show what a normal 3C deployment looks like. He is being used as a glorified 4th liner and struggling in possession. As for penalty kill, we've gone from an above average penalty kill unit the past 5 years to one of the worst in the NHL this season, so not exactly glowing results for Henrique there either, and part of the reason is our downgrade from one of the best penalty killing centers in the league in McLeod to an at best league average one in Henrique. Though I will concede that our horrid PK percentage has more to do with Skinner sucking and losing Desharnais.

Demoting one of our best performing players this season in Podkolzin and rewarding one of our worst performers in Henrique is... certainly a take. Dating back to when we first acquired Henrique last year, no forward on the team drags down Draisaitl's on ice numbers more than Henrique. Not even the 0 goal scorer version of Connor Brown.

 

[AM]

Yup, he's playing 20 minutes a game and trusted in all situations. Fulfilling the potential we saw dropped into late Cup competition and at times through his uneven development. Big, mobile and skilled D are worth waiting on and hard to acquire. Really too bad he couldn't be a sustaining part for the Oilers blueline.

And it was his choice.

Not only is Henrique not being used as a "go out and face top competition and not bend" role, he is actually actively being deployed away from opposing top 6 forwards. You can see this with how Knob line matches too, trying to play best on best with McDavid and Draisaitl lines as much as possible. He is the lowest quality of competition "3C" we've had this decade besides rookie season Ryan McLeod and 2016-17 David Desharnais. In comparison I've also attached 2023-24 Ryan McLeod's quality of competition to show what a normal 3C deployment looks like. He is being used as a glorified 4th liner and struggling in possession. As for penalty kill, we've gone from an above average penalty kill unit the past 5 years to one of the worst in the NHL this season, so not exactly glowing results for Henrique there either, and part of the reason is our downgrade from one of the best penalty killing centers in the league in McLeod to an at best league average one in Henrique. Though I will concede that our horrid PK percentage has more to do with Skinner sucking and losing Desharnais.

Demoting one of our best performing players this season in Podkolzin and rewarding one of our worst performers in Henrique is... certainly a take. Dating back to when we first acquired Henrique last year, no forward on the team drags down Draisaitl's on ice numbers more than Henrique. Not even the 0 goal scorer version of Connor Brown.
View attachment 949813
View attachment 949817

Thank goodness the coach knows what he’s doing.

 

[Trafalgar Sadge Law]

And it was his choice.


Thank goodness the coach knows what he’s doing.

Never said otherwise. Knoblauch is arguably the best coach in the NHL.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Happy Holloways!

The Gene in me couldn't resist.

2 goals and counting tonight. Blues found somebody then can beat.

 

[Shanahanigans]

Another 2 for Holloway so far tonight. Giving away a 22 year old who is on pace for 30 goals because we’d rather sign Jeff Skinner for 3 million is a dumb, dumb move by this management group.

 

[Scrapin Ice]

Another 2 for Holloway so far tonight. Giving away a 22 year old who is on pace for 30 goals because we’d rather sign Jeff Skinner for 3 million is a dumb, dumb move by this management group.

Holloway! Cam Fowler looking so good tonight as well.

 

[Scrapin Ice]

Wonder what Stan the man thinks of Holloway's play so far. 2 more tonight. Cam Fowler looking excellent two way.

 

[Zerotonine]

Gesus Hollywood gonna easily put up 20 this season and even push for 30. Who would of thought he would get that kind of production this season. Unbelievable. Great deal for the blues.....

 

[Shanahanigans]

Holloway! Cam Fowler looking so good tonight as well.

Holloway’s loss pisses me off so much because you can understand the rationale for the rest. McLeod underperformed in back to back playoffs. Foegele wanted a payday. Broberg didn’t firmly outplay Ekholm, Nurse or Kulak, and 4.5 mill was beyond what we could afford. I didn’t love losing those guys but I understood. Holloway ….one of our only offensive prospects who worked out since we drafted Mcdavid, he was so good last playoffs, scores, is physical , only 22, and only wanted 2 mill. Unbelievably bad management there. I hope he becomes a star in this league.

 

[SupremeTeam16]

Wonder what Stan the man thinks of Holloway's play so far. 2 more tonight. Cam Fowler looking excellent two way.

Probably too busy thinking about his team that’s absolutely tearing the league up right now and focused on players who actually want to win.

 

[McJadeddog]

Gesus Hollywood gonna easily put up 20 this season and even push for 30. Who would of thought he would get that kind of production this season. Unbelievable. Great deal for the blues.....

Well, he likely wouldn't have gotten those opportunities with the Oilers. But I agree, deciding to prioritize Henrique and Skinner over Holloway and Broberg was a massive, MASSIVE, blunder by this management group. Fireable offences actually, although that obviously isn't going to happen. But yes, it was that bad of a mistake. Imagine this team with Holloway/Broberg on it instead of Skinner. Skinner's money (3) would have been exactly enough to pay what both Holloway (1.2) and Broberg (1.8) were asking for in the summer. Jesus, what a team that would be right now. Just a pathetically bad mistake by JJ on July 1st. Completely missed the boat on what this team needed, and where the priority should have been. Again, its so bad that he really should be fired for it. He won't, but he should.

 

[McJadeddog]

Holloway’s loss pisses me off so much because you can understand the rationale for the rest. McLeod underperformed in back to back playoffs. Foegele wanted a payday. Broberg didn’t firmly outplay Ekholm, Nurse or Kulak, and 4.5 mill was beyond what we could afford. I didn’t love losing those guys but I understood. Holloway ….one of our only offensive prospects who worked out since we drafted Mcdavid, he was so good last playoffs, scores, is physical , only 22, and only wanted 2 mill. Unbelievably bad management there. I hope he becomes a star in this league.

Yup, of the two you can see the rationale at least a little bit for Broberg. Holloway makes no sense whatsoever. Was an almost perfect playoff winger, can hit, is fast, can score. His age was an injection of youth that we needed as well. Just a disaster of an offseason for JJ and the management team when it came to prioritizing who to sign and when.

You could easily argue that the trades that have more or less worked out (Podz and Emberson) were trades that they were forced into because of the offer sheets. Less so for the Emberson trade, as I think Ceci was always going to be a cap casualty, but certainly the Podz trade as he was a clear attempt at replacing Holloway. So even the things that worked out were because they did something stupid to force the situation.

 

[McHelpus]

Another 2 for Holloway so far tonight. Giving away a 22 year old who is on pace for 30 goals because we’d rather sign Jeff Skinner for 3 million is a dumb, dumb move by this management group.

Make it a hat trick lool

 

[belair]

Holloway’s loss pisses me off so much because you can understand the rationale for the rest. McLeod underperformed in back to back playoffs. Foegele wanted a payday. Broberg didn’t firmly outplay Ekholm, Nurse or Kulak, and 4.5 mill was beyond what we could afford. I didn’t love losing those guys but I understood. Holloway ….one of our only offensive prospects who worked out since we drafted Mcdavid, he was so good last playoffs, scores, is physical , only 22, and only wanted 2 mill. Unbelievably bad management there. I hope he becomes a star in this league.

It would set a poor standard for other guys that put up mediocre numbers and expect a decent payday of they're willing to pay hardball.

That would be a cap number I'd be comfortable giving him if he was giving us some term. Broberg's cap number is what we gave Klefbom out of his ELC, but it was for five years. And he had a full season of top four minutes under his belt.

I don't blame Bowman for letting these guys walk. The damage was done much earlier when we failed to give either of them the runway. If we had, there's a good chance either would've extended mid-season.

 

[DavidHasselhoffsFist]

Good for Dylan. Not saying it wouldn’t have come together for him here but signing that offer sheet was a smart career decision for him.

Broberg can shove it still(I’m not bitter, you’re bitter)

 

[AM]

Gesus Hollywood gonna easily put up 20 this season and even push for 30. Who would have thought he would get that kind of production this season. Unbelievable. Great deal for the blues.....

Just means they get a worse pick.

 

[Zerotonine]

Make it a hat trick lool

There it is. Ironic that it was an empty netter lolo something we struggle with

 

[tiger_80]

Yup, he's playing 20 minutes a game and trusted in all situations. Fulfilling the potential we saw dropped into late Cup competition and at times through his uneven development. Big, mobile and skilled D are worth waiting on and hard to acquire. Really too bad he couldn't be a sustaining part for the Oilers blueline.

Yeah, let us not fool ourselves. Holloway at 1.5 million would be a much better option than Skinner at 3M even this year, if they signed him earlier. And Broberg is probably a top pairing d-man for the rest of his career.

 

[CanadasTeam99]

Has anybody seen how Fowler is looking in STL?