The Loss of Broberg and Holloway Gripe Thread

Soundwave

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Honestly the Henrique signing was just as bad as any other, dude is like 34 years old, you're paying a premium for him to be a 3C and really I didn't think he was *that* great for us in the playoffs.

At least the Skinner and Arvidsson deals were attempts to bring in one shot scorers, which the team obviously needed and probably they got an earful from Draisaitl's agent at exit meetings that Leon needed better wingers or else.

I was kinda thrown for a loop when the news came out that they had signed Henrique too somehow.

If they didn't sign that they probably could have locked in Broberg for 1.8 and Holloway for 1.5 in July.

They chose to play Russian roulette and try to force both guys to take McLeod like deals and got burned for it.
 
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I don't think you read a single word in that post.
You're absolving management of blame for mismanaging a useful prospect then getting next to nothing back for him. The solution is never "Well shucks guess that's it then. Let me bend over the barrel for you, Mr. Armstrong."

It's like I said, we're so used to shit management that we just sort of accept it. The Oilers had his rights and could ship him anywhere. Who cares what he wants? The Oilers should do what's best for the Oilers. If that means pissing him off then f*** him. Accepting the worst case scenario is what losers do.
 

McDNicks17

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You're absolving management of blame for mismanaging a useful prospect then getting next to nothing back for him. The solution is never "Well shucks guess that's it then. Let me bend over the barrel for you, Mr. Armstrong."

It's like I said, we're so used to shit management that we just sort of accept it. The Oilers had his rights and could ship him anywhere. Who cares what he wants? The Oilers should do what's best for the Oilers. If that means pissing him off then f*** him. Accepting the worst case scenario is what losers do.
You've now said "just trade him" twice in response to a post explaining why a trade wasn't an option haha.
 
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Drivesaitl

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So much love for guys who wanted to play for St. Louis. I still think Jeff Skinner and Arvid are going to prove the Oilers right. Almost 3/4 of hockey left and 16 playoffs games
The season is 1/3 done and perennially broken Arvid has been missing injured for weeks. Most games Skinner is playing his way to a spot in the stands.

With certainty I've already won the bet that Arvid won't have either 20G or 40pts this season. Also that Arvid confirming he would continue to have injury problems.

Skinner has never played a playoff game and Arvid has scored about one playoff goal in the last 5yrs...

yeah I'm not pinning huge hopes on either being important difference makers.

Its a given already as well that Pods, Arvid, Skinner won't catch the goal totals this season of the Departed McLeod, Holloway, Pods. Already an improbably stagger to make up.
 
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You've now said "just trade him" twice in response to a post explaining why a trade wasn't an option haha.
Because he "only wanted STL"? Fine, trade him there. Then he can sign for a better price and we presumably get more in return as thanks. Or speak to one of the other 30 GMs and make something happen. Sorry, but I'm not accepting an RFA having all the power. Hope Bouchard doesn't think the same way otherwise we're going to get reamed there too.

Also this doesn't address Holloway. Management thought they knew better on this player. Clearly they didn't.
 
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McDNicks17

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Because he "only wanted STL"? Fine, trade him there. Then he can sign for a better price and we presumably get more in return as thanks. Or speak to one of the other 30 GMs and make something happen. Sorry, but I'm not accepting an RFA having all the power. Hope Bouchard doesn't think the same way otherwise we're going to get reamed there too.

Also this doesn't address Holloway. Management thought they knew better on this player. Clearly they didn't.
If someone is offering Bouchard a $16M offer sheet, yeah, he will have all the power haha.
 

Drivesaitl

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Honestly the Henrique signing was just as bad as any other, dude is like 34 years old, you're paying a premium for him to be a 3C and really I didn't think he was *that* great for us in the playoffs.

At least the Skinner and Arvidsson deals were attempts to bring in one shot scorers, which the team obviously needed and probably they got an earful from Draisaitl's agent at exit meetings that Leon needed better wingers or else.

I was kinda thrown for a loop when the news came out that they had signed Henrique too somehow.

If they didn't sign that they probably could have locked in Broberg for 1.8 and Holloway for 1.5 in July.

They chose to play Russian roulette and try to force both guys to take McLeod like deals and got burned for it.
Arvid hasn't been a one shot scorer since Nashville and even at that rarely. He of the 10% career shooting which is abysmal for a topsix forward that has always been on PP. Really its shocking anybody expected this guy to fill a net here. He scores less EV than Foegele across several seasons. Even though ARvid is almost always in topsix.

The Arvid signing for 8M was a clown deal from the start. Absolutely horrific especially considering it was for an injury compromised older player clearly beyond prime. Gawd I hated that deal moment it was signed.

Skinner I never liked the player. No coach has ever, either.
 

Soundwave

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Arvid hasn't been a one shot scorer since Nashville and even at that rarely. He of the 10% career shooting which is abysmal for a topsix forward that has always been on PP. Really its shocking anybody expected this guy to fill a net here. He scores less EV than Foegele across several seasons. Even though ARvid is almost always in topsix.

The Arvid signing for 8M was a clown deal from the start. Absolutely horrific especially considering it was for an injury compromised older player clearly beyond prime. Gawd I hated that deal moment it was signed.

Skinner I never liked the player. No coach has ever, either.

His 6 goals last year in 18 GP is actually a higher GPG than what you're praising Foegele, McLeod, etc. So 6 goals in 18 games a year ago is "washed up", but 6 goals in 25 games for Foegele and McLeod is impressive production? lol. At least be consistent.

This team was outright horrible to start the year, even McDavid and Draisaitl looked like ass. I'm going to chalk that up to a young head coach (x2) who didn't run a proper training camp as a big part of the problem and a definite Cup Finals hangover.
 

AM

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Arvid hasn't been a one shot scorer since Nashville and even at that rarely. He of the 10% career shooting which is abysmal for a topsix forward that has always been on PP. Really its shocking anybody expected this guy to fill a net here. He scores less EV than Foegele across several seasons. Even though ARvid is almost always in topsix.

The Arvid signing for 8M was a clown deal from the start. Absolutely horrific especially considering it was for an injury compromised older player clearly beyond prime. Gawd I hated that deal moment it was signed.

Skinner I never liked the player. No coach has ever, either.
There are 92 million reasons why you are wrong on skinner.
 

Drivesaitl

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His 6 goals last year in 18 GP is actually a higher GPG than what you're praising Foegele, McLeod, etc. So 6 goals in 18 games a year ago is "washed up", but 6 goals in 25 games for Foegele and McLeod is impressive production? lol. At least be consistent.

This team was outright horrible to start the year, even McDavid and Draisaitl looked like ass. I'm going to chalk that up to a young head coach (x2) who didn't run a proper training camp as a big part of the problem and a definite Cup Finals hangover.
Its ridiculous to cite small sample as if it means anything. Arvid wasn't much of anything in those games last year nd got a few lucky goals. 2 of them in garbage time. One of them that the team was even groaning about in a last of game of season both teams looked to be trying to loose. Arvid had fallen off in LA, and he looked done to me. He was awful in playoffs too having a -3 game in which he was the worst King on ice.

The Kings absolutely knew Arvid was done. They had no interest in continuing Arvid is a waste of money at this point. Certainly at 8M its a terrible contract for a player that wasn't healthy. Arvid was even injured in two of the 18 games he played last season. It was indelible he wasn't healthy.

There are 92 million reasons why you are wrong on skinner.
Contract buyout says hi. Not even his NHL team paying that figures he's worth it Right now his coach most nights doesn't figure he's worth much of anything.
 

Canovin

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The season is 1/3 done and perennially broken Arvid has been missing injured for weeks. Most games Skinner is playing his way to a spot in the stands.

With certainty I've already won the bet that Arvid won't have either 20G or 40pts this season. Also that Arvid confirming he would continue to have injury problems.

Skinner has never played a playoff game and Arvid has scored about one playoff goal in the last 5yrs...

yeah I'm not pinning huge hopes on either being important difference makers.

Its a given already as well that Pods, Arvid, Skinner won't catch the goal totals this season of the Departed McLeod, Holloway, Pods. Already an improbably stagger to make up.
1/3 of a season is still early. It takes awhile for players to get acclimated. Just how long did it take Drai to get comfortable playing with McDavid? People forget it took about a year before we knew Drai could play with McDavid and have chemistry. Not to mention Knob have been moving players around.

If you're good, you don't need playoffs experience. Hall had a great first playoffs before not ever playing in the playoffs.
 

Behind Enemy Lines

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If someone is offering Bouchard a $16M offer sheet, yeah, he will have all the power haha.
It's false equivalency. At that price, the Oilers have a choice to decide to match or take 4 1st round picks as compensation and likely budget hole of $10 million to seek a replacement facimile. At that dollar amount it's likely a basement to maybe mid-range drafting team so reasonable good quality draft collateral to put into replacement search.

Not to mention a healthy time horizon to sign him (which is entering that window) and what appears to be a healthy player team relationship that pro-actively turned over PP1 duties with a risk-based decision to trade out the old PP1 QB riding a super elite power play. Lots of good will and team belief that has helped leverage Bouchard's productivity boom.

Meanwhile Oilers management misread the new bull cap market, competitive landscape for bold moves to improve teams, well known damaged player relationship and question marks on opportunity and team priority for its own homegrown talent. Poor judgement rolling the high risk dice to do nothing for meagre 2 and 3 round return. Made worse as the lost boys are earning quality ice-time and producing.

Passivity was a choice. The multiple high risk considerations were sluffed off. High cost, low return including choosing to be reliant on building up cap space with an older roster and finding a replacement top 4 D for the three shipped out this summer with fairly pedestrian assets to throw into an inflationary, competitive trade deadline window. Their failure to deal with high risk flight movement internal talent off of proving points of late playoff competition has pushed them further into a high risk, market driven expensive and volatile trade deadline window.
 
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Drivesaitl

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1/3 of a season is still early. It takes awhile for players to get acclimated. Just how long did it take Drai to get comfortable playing with McDavid? People forget it took about a year before we knew Drai could play with McDavid and have chemistry. Not to mention Knob have been moving players around.

If you're good, you don't need playoffs experience. Hall had a great first playoffs before not ever playing in the playoffs.
You're conflating a rookie or sophomore player with career vets with a dozen yrs each in the league. This is not the same. Its not like Arvid or Skinner have to figure out how to score. Or at least I would hope so..

This org is so much about devaluing players they already have and looking for free agent shiny things in somebody elses yard. Foegele 20 goals won't be matched by ANY of the forwards the oilers drug in.

lol that Holloway alone has as many goals as all 3 new forwards have scored this season. The player that got away the org figured wasn't worth signing or matching.

You're waiting for these to get going. The guys we lost already are.
 

Soundwave

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You're conflating a rookie or sophomore player with career vets with a dozen yrs each in the league. This is not the same. Its not like Arvid or Skinner have to figure out how to score. Or at least I would hope so..

This org is so much about devaluing players they already have and looking for free agent shiny things in somebody elses yard. Foegele 20 goals won't be matched by ANY of the forwards the oilers drug in.

lol that Holloway alone has as many goals as all 3 new forwards have scored this season. The player that got away the org figured wasn't worth signing or matching.

You're waiting for these to get going. The guys we lost already are.

Lots of guys come here and struggle to score or were hyped to be able to score and then something just goes off (Eberle, Hall, Lucic, Strome, etc. etc. ).

This is now a continual pattern for this team it's not just one or two players.
 
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TheNumber4

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Lots of guys come here and struggle to score or were hyped to be able to score and then something just goes off (Eberle, Hall, Lucic, Strome, etc. etc. ).

This is now a continual pattern for this team it's not just one or two players.
Something in the water things. We should really figure out why this keeps happening.
 

Soundwave

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Something in the water things. We should really figure out why this keeps happening.

Then there's option B of players who have an initial scoring burst but then vanish (Yamamoto, Neal) into oblivion and basically out of the league.
 

TheNumber4

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Gripes about losing Holloway and Broberg make sense.

Gripes about losing Playoff Blackhole Foegele. Nah. Completely fine moving on from Mr. Yips.

Then there's option B of players who have an initial scoring burst but then vanish (Yamamoto, Neal) into oblivion and basically out of the league.
But not before we pay them… in the case of Yamo.
 

Drivesaitl

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Lots of guys come here and struggle to score or were hyped to be able to score and then something just goes off (Eberle, Hall, Lucic, Strome, etc. etc. ).

This is now a continual pattern for this team it's not just one or two players.
no, the team gets rid of players that actually do score. They keep looking for better I guess. f*** even Patrick Maroon figured out how to score with McDavid. Did it in spades. Was the best EV scoring season of a winger here until Hyman.
 

Soundwave

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no, the team gets rid of players that actually do score. They keep looking for better I guess. f*** even Patrick Maroon figured out how to score with McDavid. Did it in spades. Was the best EV scoring season of a winger here until Hyman.

Herein is the fallacy .. Patrick Maroon is actually the exception, not the rule so using the term "even Patrick Maroon" could do it, well guess what, it's not that easy.

Maroon read off McDavid well from pretty much the get go, they had chemistry almost instantly.
 

Drivesaitl

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Something in the water things. We should really figure out why this keeps happening.
Not at all. Its that the org doesn't spend 5mins thinking about how X forwards will even fit and that the org is always shopping for forwards either in bargain basement bin or that other clubs are readily discarding or even paying out. lol.

Theres nothing mysterious about Skinner or Arvid struggling to score here. I predicted the struggle. These were not good fits for what our needs were. The depth of thinking about this the org engaged in apparently is this guy scored somewhere or this guy padded pts somewhere with no thought on how that would plug in, or on type of player, or how they would best slot in.

These were awful contracts. More signs of an org without a clue how how to manage assets finances etc. Soon as we pay out Jack Campbell we give it away on Blunder Arvid contract. Its laughable.
 

TheNumber4

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Not at all. Its that the org doesn't spend 5mins thinking about how X forwards will even fit and that the org is always shopping for forwards either in bargain basement bin or that other clubs are readily discarding or even paying out. lol.

Theres nothing mysterious about Skinner or Arvid struggling to score here. I predicted the struggle. These were not good fits for what our needs were. The depth of thinking about this the org engaged in apparently is this guy scored somewhere or this guy padded pts somewhere with no thought on how that would plug in, or on type of player, or how they would best slot in.

These were awful contracts. More signs of an org without a clue how how to manage assets finances etc. Soon as we pay out Jack Campbell we give it away on Blunder Arvid contract. Its laughable.
Maybe sometimes. But everytime? There’s a huge list of forwards that come here and their offense just dies.
 
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McDNicks17

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It's false equivalency. At that price, the Oilers have a choice to decide to match or take 4 1st round picks as compensation and likely budget hole of $10 million to seek a replacement facimile. At that dollar amount it's likely a basement to maybe mid-range drafting team so reasonable good quality draft collateral to put into replacement search.

Not to mention a healthy time horizon to sign him (which is entering that window) and what appears to be a healthy player team relationship that pro-actively turned over PP1 duties with a risk-based decision to trade out the old PP1 QB riding a super elite power play. Lots of good will and team belief that has helped leverage Bouchard's productivity boom.

Meanwhile Oilers management misread the new bull cap market, competitive landscape for bold moves to improve teams, well known damaged player relationship and question marks on opportunity and team priority for its own homegrown talent. Poor judgement rolling the high risk dice to do nothing for meagre 2 and 3 round return. Made worse as the lost boys are earning quality ice-time and producing.

Passivity was a choice. The multiple high risk considerations were sluffed off. High cost, low return including choosing to be reliant on building up cap space with an older roster and finding a replacement top 4 D for the three shipped out this summer with fairly pedestrian assets to throw into an inflationary, competitive trade deadline window. Their failure to deal with high risk flight movement internal talent off of proving points of late playoff competition has pushed them further into a high risk, market driven expensive and volatile trade deadline window.
There's a difference in money and draft picks, but there's also a massive difference in players.

It's the same thing.
 
Apr 12, 2010
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Something in the water things. We should really figure out why this keeps happening.
I don't think management has ever really put in any significant effort into building a team. Going back to the days of Sam Gagner they just sorta expected all their problems to be solved by this one player. Hall/Eberle were given the keys to the city and free reign to do what they wanted without any real supplemental help. Sure they would get the odd castoff vet but more often than not they were expected to carry the team to greatness. Yakupov was billed as the next great scoring winger yet constantly subjected to Eakins and a general lack of direction. Even Leon struggled very early on in his career before his rookie season was put to pasture far, far too late.

In comes McDavid, a true generational talent. Without a doubt the hardest thing to acquire not only in hockey but in any sport. It's my belief that the Oilers have always viewed McDavid as an "instant win button", guaranteed to win the team a Cup because he's just that good. Last year certainly gives some credence to that idea, but he was immediately met with a bozo GM in Chiarelli and lame duck after lame duck coach. I liked McLellan a lot more than some here, but it was pretty obvious he just couldn't get it done. Then Dave Tippett was brought in to "coach some defense" which naturally never materialized. Just a shitty coach who's never accomplished anything other than beating the Oilers with his undermanned Coyotes teams. And it goes from there with GMs and coaches that most teams wouldn't go near. I think Woodcroft was a bit too raw but at least seemed to push some of the right buttons. Knoblauch actually has some sense but I don't know how much credit I would give to management on him since it's probable he was hired only because of his McDavid connection (see: Jackson).

The Oilers have just abysmal drafting and development. The only picks since McDavid (in 2015) that are actively playing with the Oilers right now are Skinner and Bouchard. And the only picks that are actually still playing in the NHL are Puljujaarvi, Yamamoto, Desharnais, McLeod, Broberg and Holloway. Not exactly an impressive lineup of drafted players from a 9 year stretch. I guess you could throw Bear and Jones in there too but even then they're barely playing.

This also ties into the shitty asset management that we've been discussing in this thread. Too many picks and prospects thrown away on garbage. Petry for a few picks (which as of right now has amounted to nothing seeing as Stolarz and Talbot are no longer with the team), a couple of seconds for AA, and what we witnessed in the offseason. Oh and that Pronger trade that was only saved by Jordan Eberle who eventually turned into Strome, into Spooner, into Gagner and finally into nothing. Hall into Larsson into nothing.

McDavid masks a ton of issues with this org, content to do the absolute bare minimum in all areas and hope it all works out. As I said before, had we good prospects that were knocking on the door I doubt losing Broberg/Holloway really hurts us all that much. But we don't. At all.

EDIT: I forgot about John Marino. So far carved out a nice little career for himself. Dealt for a 6th because he didn't want to play here.
 
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Soundwave

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I don't think management has ever really put in any significant effort into building a team. Going back to the days of Sam Gagner they just sorta expected all their problems to be solved by this one player. Hall/Eberle were given the keys to the city and free reign to do what they wanted without any real supplemental help. Sure they would get the odd castoff vet but more often than not they were expected to carry the team to greatness. Yakupov was billed as the next great scoring winger yet constantly subjected to Eakins and a general lack of direction. Even Leon struggled very early on in his career before his rookie season was put to pasture far, far too late.

In comes McDavid, a true generational talent. Without a doubt the hardest thing to acquire not only in hockey but in any sport. It's my belief that the Oilers have always viewed McDavid as an "instant win button", guaranteed to win the team a Cup because he's just that good. Last year certainly gives some credence to that idea, but he was immediately met with a bozo GM in Chiarelli and lame duck after lame duck coach. I liked McLellan a lot more than some here, but it was pretty obvious he just couldn't get it done. Then Dave Tippett was brought in to "coach some defense" which naturally never materialized. Just a shitty coach who's never accomplished anything other than beating the Oilers with his undermanned Coyotes teams. And it goes from there with GMs and coaches that most teams wouldn't go near. I think Woodcroft was a bit too raw but at least seemed to push some of the right buttons. Knoblauch actually has some sense but I don't know how much credit I would give to management on him since it's probable he was hired only because of his McDavid connection (see: Jackson).

The Oilers have just abysmal drafting and development. The only picks since McDavid (in 2015) that are actively playing with the Oilers right now are Skinner and Bouchard. And the only picks that are actually still playing in the NHL are Puljujaarvi, Yamamoto, Desharnais, McLeod, Broberg and Holloway. Not exactly an impressive lineup of drafted players from a 9 year stretch. I guess you could throw Bear and Jones in there too but even then they're barely playing.

This also ties into the shitty asset management that we've been discussing in this thread. Too many picks and prospects thrown away on garbage. Petry for a few picks (which as of right now has amounted to nothing seeing as Stolarz and Talbot are no longer with the team), a couple of seconds for AA, and what we witnessed in the offseason. Oh and that Pronger trade that was only saved by Jordan Eberle who eventually turned into Strome, into Spooner, into Gagner and finally into nothing. Hall into Larsson into nothing.

McDavid masks a ton of issues with this org, content to do the absolute bare minimum in all areas and hope it all works out. As I said before, had we good prospects that were knocking on the door I doubt losing Broberg/Holloway really hurts us all that much. But we don't. At all.

Harder to play in this market too, the pressure is immense.

No one gives a crap in LA or St. Louis, hockey is a distant secondary/tertiary sport to baseball and basketball and even college sports.

You can show up and freewheel and no one cares really if you perform or don't as a support player.

It's the difference between playing poker with your own money that you need and just playing with house money.

It's also why a player who is crazy enough to embrace that (like Klim Kostin did) can actually get a boost the other way. If your nuts enough to buy into that, it can ignite your game, but not many players view it that way.
 

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