The Loss of Broberg and Holloway Gripe Thread

Drivesaitl

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If we're looking at this season thus far (23 games or whatever), it's entirely fair to look at the exact same 23 game span last year ... if those guys are so much better, what was their production like in the same exact situation last year?

Turns out not much f***ing better. Foegele/McLeod/Holloway had like 9 goals combined this time a year, how is that better than what's here this year? Skinner (4) + Perry (4) + Podkolzin (3) actually have more goals than what we got from Foegele/McLeod/Holloway at the equivalent point a year ago.
Of course its not fair because Holloway was a developing player just finding his NHL game still, which is completely acceptable at that young age and with limited stints up in the show.

That you would use this specious sample when all sample is available is straight up silly and just to manufacture your fiction that no scoring was lost. 20-9. Thats the score.
 
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Apr 12, 2010
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There is a salary cap in the nhl.

What you need to win isn’t youthful exuberance, it is wise execution.

Another issue is injuries. When you save salary cap and choose who fills out your team best at the deadline you avoid injury risk.


Make a better argument and it might inspire me.
What you need are good players. And in a salary cap world you also need cheap players. Management got pantsed thinking that offer sheets wouldn't hit two valuable young players coming off a deep playoff run.

I could care less about accrued cap space. We all saw how well that went in 2018. 25 games into the season and we're 7 points behind the division lead and only two up on ninth place. What about this team right now screams Stanley Cup contender to you?

Why would Armstrong trade more assets for Broberg when he knows he already wants to sign an offer sheet with him?
If the Oilers knew Broberg wasn't going to sign then they should've traded him. Letting him go for a second is laughable management.
 
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Drivesaitl

Finding Hemingway
Oct 8, 2017
50,126
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Islands in the stream.
There is a salary cap in the nhl.

What you need to win isn’t youthful exuberance, it is wise execution.

Another issue is injuries. When you save salary cap and choose who fills out your team best at the deadline you avoid injury risk.


Make a better argument and it might inspire me.
I just did. See edit, see Dallas citation. 3 prospect forwards in the lineup offering immense performance for a contender. This contending teams don't have time for prospects is flat out bs and you know it.
 
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Behind Enemy Lines

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Well there is a lot of confusion on both sides it seems. Every decision you make has risk and reward. For whatever reason they didn’t want to play n Edmonton.

That’s the end of the story for me.
They wanted opportunity to play and when finally given rope within deep NHL playoff competition stepped up to help the team. The reward was watching management prioritize every one else including paying day 1 pricing for Josh Brown and Stetcher while waiting on their own negotiation. The league watched the Oilers spend big and fail to negotiate with young, NHL ready first round pedigree talent until the league reset their value and acted with a paralyzing buy low, minimal risk offer. Spending all their money and letting their young talent hang out there proved to have a devastating consequence. It was the exact type of play I would expect a super agent to club CEO to identify and actively manage a quite obvious vulnerability.
 
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McDNicks17

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Citation where Holloways side clearly said he had offers from the Oilers. We've all heard Holloway say directly otherwise.
I don't have the time now, but it was an interview with Holloway on one of the Edmonton podcasts, I believe.

The Oilers offered something around $1M on a 1 year deal, but Holloway's side wanted a long term deal, so they said sure, here's a $1M/3 year deal.

I think there was a post in here referencing it not too long ago.
 

Drivesaitl

Finding Hemingway
Oct 8, 2017
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Islands in the stream.
I don't have the time now, but it was an interview with Holloway on one of the Edmonton podcasts, I believe.

The Oilers offered something around $1M on a 1 year deal, but Holloway's side wanted a long term deal, so they said sure, here's a $1M/3 year deal.

I think there was a post in here referencing it not too long ago.
I'll let it go. Even at that its a lowball offer even assuming it. Thats not much and especially when the team is playing multiple vets that contribute jack squat or making injured Arvid a priority or Skinner. Any agent is going to be suggesting that this club isn't putting value on you at all and probably time to be considering any other offers. Its on the Oilers this occurred, not Holloway, In the end it is our opinions on the basis of the limited info we know and that is released.
 

Behind Enemy Lines

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Why would Armstrong trade more assets for Broberg when he knows he already wants to sign an offer sheet with him?
Because he has no certainty he can get his draft pick back from Pittsburg. No idea if other teams might step up to offer sheet as well. He was known to deeply covet both players with reported deep trade deadline discussions going back two seasons. The Blues had NHL roster players of interest to Edmonton and a solid prospect pool through which to explore trade options. He sold the vision of fit, opportunity and alignment to the Blues young core. The Oilers management failed in their poor decisions to mitigate known high risk through any form of pro-active effort with two players that had just shown their mettle for team success that rolled to Game 7 Stanley Cup Final.
 

Anemia

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Losing Broberg for what's likely to be a mid-second is inexcusable. The chances of that pick becoming anything near Broberg whether by draft or trade is basically nil.

But this is Oilers management. Asset management has been a complete joke for a very, very long time. Eberle was the only thing keeping the Chris Pronger trade from being the worst in league history. And even then Hall and Eberle eventually became nothing and nothing respectively. JP became a player who isn't even on this continent and probably never will be. Yamamoto became future considerations. Not that these were special players or anything but we offloaded them at their lowest value and basically wasted several first round picks on absolutely nothing.
Uhhhh... JP plays for the Pens and has 8 points in 20 games this year.
 

Behind Enemy Lines

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Losing Broberg for what's likely to be a mid-second is inexcusable. The chances of that pick becoming anything near Broberg whether by draft or trade is basically nil.

But this is Oilers management. Asset management has been a complete joke for a very, very long time. Eberle was the only thing keeping the Chris Pronger trade from being the worst in league history. And even then Hall and Eberle eventually became nothing and nothing respectively. JP became a player who isn't even on this continent and probably never will be. Yamamoto became future considerations. Not that these were special players or anything but we offloaded them at their lowest value and basically wasted several first round picks on absolutely nothing.
"Hey thanks for helping us get to game 7 of the Stanley Cup Final. Can't talk now, it's July 1 and I have to dash to sign Josh Brown and Troy Stetcher but I'll be in touch in late August. Talk then!"
 

McDNicks17

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I'll let it go. Even at that its a lowball offer even assuming it. Thats not much and especially when the team is playing multiple vets that contribute jack squat or making injured Arvid a priority or Skinner. Any agent is going to be suggesting that this club isn't putting value on you at all and probably time to be considering any other offers. Its on the Oilers this occurred, not Holloway, In the end it is our opinions on the basis of the limited info we know and that is released.
Seems like a pretty standard offer for an RFA coming off a 9 point season to me.

I think he got pretty lucky that the Broberg situation was happening at the same time. Without Ferris orchestrating the whole thing, Holloway probably signs somewhere around there like 99% of RFAs do.
 
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Drivesaitl

Finding Hemingway
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It never ceases to amaze me that an org that waited around 7yrs for Yamanothing to do something or be something figured prospects like McLeod, Broberg, Holloway just weren't good enough to bother signing. All had shown appreciably more worth. They even stapled Yama to Drai for several seasons trying to make the runt happen. But a potential stud like Holloway. Heres your cereal and lowball offer and love it or f*** off. Now even considering this org paid Yama 3M across multiple seasons. jfc. Yama has been waiver wire material for years.
 
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Apr 12, 2010
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"Hey thanks for helping us get to game 7 of the Stanley Cup Final. Can't talk now, it's July 1 and I have to dash to sign Josh Brown and Troy Stetcher but I'll be in touch in late August. Talk then!"
I read it last night on these boards (might be the PGT, can't find it at the moment) that it sounded like Jackson/Bowman were caught completely off guard by the offer sheets, like it never occurred to them that it could happen. They just assumed that both would sign and got fleeced hard. If one or both had no intention of signing then trade them.

It was a complete bungling of two valuable young players and we're left with a couple of picks that will probably never amount to anything.
 
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McDNicks17

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I read it last night on these boards (might be the PGT, can't find it at the moment) that it sounded like Jackson/Bowman were caught completely off guard by the offer sheets, like it never occurred to them that it could happen. They just assumed that both would sign and got fleeced hard. If one or both had no intention of signing then trade them.

It was a complete bungling of two valuable young players and we're left with a couple of picks that will probably never amount to anything.
They said that two happening at once is rare and that was surprising.

Which reading between the lines says they weren't all that surprised to see one of them come through.
 

Drivesaitl

Finding Hemingway
Oct 8, 2017
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Islands in the stream.
Seems like a pretty standard offer for an RFA coming off a 9 point season to me.

I think he got pretty lucky that the Broberg situation was happening at the same time. Without Ferris orchestrating the whole thing, Holloway probably signs somewhere around there like 99% of RFAs do.
C'mon. Was only a 38 game season and player scored 6 goals. 5 more in playoffs. Prorates to 15Gs for an energy player with all kinds of upside and motor. The only question concerning Holloway was injuries. The injury he had this season was a fluke, could happen to anybody. On potential alione, and already demonstrated, Holloway was worth more, and clearly was.
 
Apr 12, 2010
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They said that two happening at once is rare and that was surprising.

Which reading between the lines says they weren't all that surprised to see one of them come through.
These guys are paid millions of dollars to manage this team. Sorry, but being surprised isn't an excuse. Could've been the same team, could've been two separate teams. The fact remains that they dropped the ball and hard. and given how average this team is so far this season coupled with the successes of the outgoing players makes this that much worse.

Imagine having nothing to show for 4 years of drafting.
 

McShogun99

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I just did. See edit, see Dallas citation. 3 prospect forwards in the lineup offering immense performance for a contender. This contending teams don't have time for prospects is flat out bs and you know it.
Practically every cup winner during the salary cap era has had major contributions from young players on cheap or ELC contracts. Holland had an outdated way of thinking with his over ripen prospects approach. It worked great pre cap with Detroit and an owner that was willing to spend to win, not so much now with everyone on an equal money playing field.
 
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Drivesaitl

Finding Hemingway
Oct 8, 2017
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Islands in the stream.
These guys are paid millions of dollars to manage this team. Sorry, but being surprised isn't an excuse. Could've been the same team, could've been two separate teams. The fact remains that they dropped the ball and hard. and given how average this team is so far this season coupled with the successes of the outgoing players makes this that much worse.

Imagine having nothing to show for 4 years of drafting.
"gee we're surprised that two guys that were unsigned that are our top prospects that we are entirely exposed to losing on offer sheets were both offered, guess what, offer sheets. Like dumb and dumber.
 
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Behind Enemy Lines

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I read it last night on these boards (might be the PGT, can't find it at the moment) that it sounded like Jackson/Bowman were caught completely off guard by the offer sheets, like it never occurred to them that it could happen. They just assumed that both would sign and got fleeced hard. If one or both had no intention of signing then trade them.

It was a complete bungling of two valuable young players and we're left with a couple of picks that will probably never amount to anything.
... and a hole at defense with their reactive contingency planning that will require a market based upgrade to ice a d-corp that can support a deep playoff run (and protect inconsistent goaltending).

I don't know whether to think arrogance, incompetence, obliviousness with how this situation was handled. They failed to act with an intention until the bull market stepped in on August 12 to force their hand. It's a significant defining mistake for a franchise already with a shallow prospect pool and pitching draft collateral to win now.
 

AM

Registered User
Nov 22, 2004
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These guys are paid millions of dollars to manage this team. Sorry, but being surprised isn't an excuse. Could've been the same team, could've been two separate teams. The fact remains that they dropped the ball and hard. and given how average this team is so far this season coupled with the successes of the outgoing players makes this that much worse.

Imagine having nothing to show for 4 years of drafting.
Not wasting salary cap on developing players is win win to me.
 

McShogun99

Registered User
Aug 30, 2009
18,879
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Edmonton
It never ceases to amaze me that an org that waited around 7yrs for Yamanothing to do something or be something figured prospects like McLeod, Broberg, Holloway just weren't good enough to bother signing. All had shown appreciably more worth. They even stapled Yama to Drai for several seasons trying to make the runt happen. But a potential stud like Holloway. Heres your cereal and lowball offer and love it or f*** off. Now even considering this org paid Yama 3M across multiple seasons. jfc. Yama has been waiver wire material for years.
Holloway is the type of complimentary player that you win Cups with.
 
Apr 12, 2010
75,724
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Calgary
"gee we're surprised that two guys that were unsigned that are our top prospects that we are entirely exposed to losing on offer sheets were both offered, guess what, offer sheets. Like dumb and dumber.
I'm reminded of that scene in the Empire Strikes Back where the Imperial Captain comes out of hyperspace too close to Hoth and alerts the rebels to an incoming Imperial attack, allowing them the ability to get prepared for an assault.

"He is as clumsy as he is stupid."

Not wasting salary cap on developing players is win win to me.
And if that salary cap doesn't get used at all? Or used on a worse player? The pro scouting for this team is bloody awful.
 

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