The Loss of Broberg and Holloway Gripe Thread

[BudBundy]

Good thing we didn’t give him the money then.

What???? You’re happy that we gave that money to Jeff Skinner? You’re happy that we lost both Holloway and Broberg for one crappy year of a one-dimensional LW? You’re going to great lengths to polish this turd.

 

[AM]

What???? You’re happy that we gave that money to Jeff Skinner? You’re happy that we lost both Holloway and Broberg for one crappy year of a one-dimensional LW? You’re going to great lengths to polish this turd.

I’m happy they gave the money to somebody who wanted to play here.

 

[TheNumber4]

What???? You’re happy that we gave that money to Jeff Skinner? You’re happy that we lost both Holloway and Broberg for one crappy year of a one-dimensional LW? You’re going to great lengths to polish this turd.

3M doesn’t equal 6.5M though. Holloway Vs Skinner is a valid concern though, with better foresight maybe we see the offersheets coming. But the story on Skinner isn’t over yet, he could still come around.

 

[Da McBomb]

Flames were one of two other teams considering signing then-Oilers Dylan Holloway, Philip Broberg to offer sheets

An interesting summer that saw the St. Louis Blues sign two of the Edm...

oilersnation.com

I know we all hate the Blues offer sheets now... but can you imagine if it was the Flames and not the Blues who made the offer sheets? Could you imagine this place if Holloway and Broberg were ripping it up with the Flames?

 

[oilers4life5]

JFC people...move on already. This is getting silly.

I just love when people tell others how to fan. Go away.

 

[BudBundy]

3M doesn’t equal 6.5M though. Holloway Vs Skinner is a valid concern though, with better foresight maybe we see the offersheets coming. But the story on Skinner isn’t over yet, he could still come around.

I have to admit some personal bias. I’ve never liked Skinner. He could turn it around yet. Who the hell knows how he’ll respond to a playoff environment? I hope he does because we’ll need him.

Basically I feel with the $3M we gave Skinner (plus the bit to Perry), we probably could’ve signed Broberg and Holloway, pre-offer sheet. Given how apparently that threat was out there, it galls me.

Ironically at the time I was more concerned that signing Skinner meant no room to I prove the D. The offer sheet was a consequence I didn’t even have in mind at the time, though I thought signing Skinner to play ahead of Holloway would be hard for him to swallow.

 

[TheNumber4]

I have to admit some personal bias. I’ve never liked Skinner. He could turn it around yet. Who the hell knows how he’ll respond to a playoff environment? I hope he does because we’ll need him.

Basically I feel with the $3M we gave Skinner (plus the bit to Perry), we probably could’ve signed Broberg and Holloway, pre-offer sheet. Given how apparently that threat was out there, it galls me.

Ironically at the time I was more concerned that signing Skinner meant no room to I prove the D. The offer sheet was a consequence I didn’t even have in mind at the time.

Yeh really no one knows how Skinner would do on a playoff contender. A gamble was made here. The Oilers didn't even know, as evidenced by the Drop episode. They were like most around here, imagining what Skinner could look like on Drai's wing with his skill and goal scoring ability, and noting that he's never had a chance on a competitive team. I think his skill and goal scoring ability in his career speaks for itself, so I understand why they made the bet. But with all bets, they might not work out.

We also could have went Mcleod instead of Henrique and there's an extra $1M there. Or no Arviddsson and there's $4M for Broberg right there. Let Janmark walk. etc etc.

But really, I think the Oilers were operating under the false assumption that no offer sheet was coming. That's why they went and signed all these guys and thought they could get Broberg/Holloway on bargain RFA deals. We got blindsided. But there's an argument to be made that they shouldn't have been blindsided and should have operated with that offersheet threat in mind.

 

[Mr Positive]

Yeh really no one knows how Skinner would do on a playoff contender. A gamble was made here. The Oilers didn't even know, as evidenced by the Drop episode. They were like most around here, imagining what Skinner could look like on Drai's wing with his skill and goal scoring ability, and noting that he's never had a chance on a competitive team. I think his skill and goal scoring ability in his career speaks for itself, so I understand why they made the bet. But with all bets, they might not work out.

We also could have went Mcleod instead of Henrique and there's an extra $1M there. Or no Arviddsson and there's $4M for Broberg right there. Let Janmark walk. etc etc.

But really, I think the Oilers were operating under the false assumption that no offer sheet was coming. That's why they went and signed all these guys and thought they could get Broberg/Holloway on bargain RFA deals. We got blindsided. But there's an argument to be made that they shouldn't have been blindsided and should have operated with that offersheet threat in mind.

This exactly my criticism of management.

They thought there wasn't much threat of an offer sheet. I suppose they thought that these guys would want to stay on a contender so badly that they'd leave millions of dollars on the table.

Management rightly gets criticized when they get it wrong. Just like how any draft pick could become a bust or be great, so to could any decision or non decision they make. Even if there are other factors at play, they are judged based on results

They should have known offer sheets were a real threat

That means that either they should have followed Jackson's own advise and prioritize youth, or trade them

We could have kept Broberg and Holloway for much less than what St. Louis paid them btw. Maybe 2-2.5 for Broberg and 1.5 for Holloway. That's what the leaked numbers from the agents were like. If we were trading them we could have got the Dman we wanted. Andersson, Provorov, whatever. Broberg had really high value after his great playoff performance. Jackson burned a lot of player value with his screw up

So if competence is measured in the balance of good choices vs bad, these offer sheets are pretty sizeable bad evaluations

Bowman doesn't get the criticism but his boss does

 

[McDNicks17]

This exactly my criticism of management.

They thought there wasn't much threat of an offer sheet. I suppose they thought that these guys would want to stay on a contender so badly that they'd leave millions of dollars on the table.

Management rightly gets criticized when they get it wrong. Just like how any draft pick could become a bust or be great, so to could any decision or non decision they make. Even if there are other factors at play, they are judged based on results

They should have known offer sheets were a real threat

That means that either they should have followed Jackson's own advise and prioritize youth, or trade them

We could have kept Broberg and Holloway for much less than what St. Louis paid them btw. Maybe 2-2.5 for Broberg and 1.5 for Holloway. That's what the leaked numbers from the agents were like. If we were trading them we could have got the Dman we wanted. Andersson, Provorov, whatever. Broberg had really high value after his great playoff performance. Jackson burned a lot of player value with his screw up

So if competence is measured in the balance of good choices vs bad, these offer sheets are pretty sizeable bad evaluations

Bowman doesn't get the criticism but his boss does

This isn't necessarily true.

They could have known about the offer sheet for months, but if other teams did too(and they would 100% talk to Broberg and his agent before a trade), what would they do with that information?

You can't sign him. He's got a $4.6M contract he'll take instead. You can't trade him. No team is going to trade for a guy that they know has no interest in signing anything that isn't a $4.6M deal. What do you do?

There's never been any indication that Bowman was surprised by the offer sheets.

 

[TheNumber4]

This exactly my criticism of management.

They thought there wasn't much threat of an offer sheet. I suppose they thought that these guys would want to stay on a contender so badly that they'd leave millions of dollars on the table.

Management rightly gets criticized when they get it wrong. Just like how any draft pick could become a bust or be great, so to could any decision or non decision they make. Even if there are other factors at play, they are judged based on results

They should have known offer sheets were a real threat

That means that either they should have followed Jackson's own advise and prioritize youth, or trade them

We could have kept Broberg and Holloway for much less than what St. Louis paid them btw. Maybe 2-2.5 for Broberg and 1.5 for Holloway. That's what the leaked numbers from the agents were like. If we were trading them we could have got the Dman we wanted. Andersson, Provorov, whatever. Broberg had really high value after his great playoff performance. Jackson burned a lot of player value with his screw up

So if competence is measured in the balance of good choices vs bad, these offer sheets are pretty sizeable bad evaluations

Bowman doesn't get the criticism but his boss does

I agree. I think if a f***in Flames podcast was pushing the Offer Sheet idea, an NHL management team should have been able to see that possibility too. Even post TDL, they could have got an idea of what our cap would look like and what offers to Broberg/Holloway would need to be. The numbers could have been calculated even then.

I will say this though, we went from SCF Game 7 and a week later were thrust into Free Agency. Plus dealing with Holland wringing his hands if he wanted to stay or leave, plus dealing with having no GM, and JJ being thrust into a situation of being a GM. Bowman being the new guy. No long term outlook was had by the organization cause we were in a chaotic transition period. If anything the long term direction and planning should have come from Holland, then transferred to JJ, then transferred to Bowman. Holland doesn't strike me as a guy that considers all the long term variables and possibilities. He's also always acted like RFAs were in his complete control... So I don't know who to exactly blame.... management in general for sure, but Bowman or JJ? I'm not so sure about that. They all kind of dropped the ball together in general and the situation didn't help.

 

[McFlash97]

Anyone who thinks Skinner has replaced Holloway is living in some dreamland. Holloway is 3 times the player Skinner has been for the Oilers. Just the skating speed, forechecking, driving to the net and energy from Holloway made him so much more valuable to the Oilers than this perennial floater.

 

[brentashton]

he has a full NMC, he isn't going anywhere

Anyone can be moved. It takes the right mix of healthy scratches and attached draft picks. If you aren’t wanted, you eventually will agree to move.

 

[AM]

This isn't necessarily true.

They could have known about the offer sheet for months, but if other teams did too(and they would 100% talk to Broberg and his agent before a trade), what would they do with that information?

You can't sign him. He's got a $4.6M contract he'll take instead. You can't trade him. No team is going to trade for a guy that they know has no interest in signing anything that isn't a $4.6M deal. What do you do?

There's never been any indication that Bowman was surprised by the offer sheets.

Plus if you pay those guys how does that make the room feel?

Anyone who thinks Skinner has replaced Holloway is living in some dreamland. Holloway is 3 times the player Skinner has been for the Oilers. Just the skating speed, forechecking, driving to the net and energy from Holloway made him so much more valuable to the Oilers than this perennial floater.

The looming injury.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Yeh really no one knows how Skinner would do on a playoff contender. A gamble was made here. The Oilers didn't even know, as evidenced by the Drop episode. They were like most around here, imagining what Skinner could look like on Drai's wing with his skill and goal scoring ability, and noting that he's never had a chance on a competitive team. I think his skill and goal scoring ability in his career speaks for itself, so I understand why they made the bet. But with all bets, they might not work out.

We also could have went Mcleod instead of Henrique and there's an extra $1M there. Or no Arviddsson and there's $4M for Broberg right there. Let Janmark walk. etc etc.

But really, I think the Oilers were operating under the false assumption that no offer sheet was coming. That's why they went and signed all these guys and thought they could get Broberg/Holloway on bargain RFA deals. We got blindsided. But there's an argument to be made that they shouldn't have been blindsided and should have operated with that offersheet threat in mind.

Was it really even a gamble? Skinner is a career floater one dimensional player that as I said in July has never made any team better through his performance on it. You can't just drop a guy with his lack of 200ft compete on a contender team and think its going to work well. Especially with any coach that is a purist and that demands better habits. Skinner showed what he was prepared to bring here in TC.

The worst thing about players like Skinner is they can become a distraction in a team. The one unforgivable in pro sports is looking down the bench and seeing guys that won't bring it. I don't think Skinner was even a reasonable reclamation target.

 

[TheNumber4]

Was it really even a gamble? Skinner is a career floater one dimensional player that as I said in July has never made any team better through his performance on it. You can't just drop a guy with his lack of 200ft compete on a contender team and think its going to work well. Especially with any coach that is a purist and that demands better habits. Skinner showed what he was prepared to bring here in TC.

The worst thing about players like Skinner is they can become a distraction in a team. The one unforgivable in pro sports is looking down the bench and seeing guys that won't bring it. I don't think Skinner was even a reasonable reclamation target.

Bolded is a good point I get where your coming from. I guess the gamble would be his offensive production next to Drai outweighs those types of warts? Or maybe that he can coaches to at least be a mediocre peg in the zone defense system? Knob does demand and demote/promote based on ability to play 200, so you'd think he'd have said something in the room on free agency day when they were considering Skinner.

With Skinner though I don't see a guy that doesn't want to bring it. There's effort in his game and a bit of fire is starting to show.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Bolded is a good point I get where your coming from. I guess the gamble would be his offensive production next to Drai outweighs those types of warts? Or maybe that he can coaches to at least be a mediocre peg in the zone defense system? Knob does demand and demote/promote based on ability to play 200, so you'd think he'd have said something in the room on free agency day when they were considering Skinner.

With Skinner though I don't see a guy that doesn't want to bring it. There's effort in his game and a bit of fire is starting to show.

Really? Kapanen has been better, and a much better topsix option every game he's played here and he's just arrived. Theres zero excuse for Skinner to be where he's at and only himself to blame. Worst though is the guy making 13M this season probably doesn't care. Skinners general level of effort is contemptible. I do see him trying on a few shift a night. Especially when the game is over and there might be an easy goal to be had.

 

[TheNumber4]

Really? Kapanen has been better, and a much better topsix option every game he's played here and he's just arrived. Theres zero excuse for Skinner to be where he's at and only himself to blame. Worst though is the guy making 13M this season probably doesn't care. Skinners general level of effort is contemptible. I do see him trying on a few shift a night. Especially when the game is over and there might be an easy goal to be had.

Yeh. Well with the puck on his stick I should say, he's pretty intense in his efforts trying to create something. He is creating stuff too, it's just not going into the net. He's 3rd on our team on shots on net only behind McDrai. I think tries to force things though, and he'd be better served moving the puck instead of trying to go 1 on 2 in tight to make a play. That's why I was happy to see him use his teammates and move the puck to get a secondary assist in Colorado.

 

[Jumptheshark]

JFC people...move on already. This is getting silly.

This thread may outlive many of the posters on this board

 

[harpoon]

Worst though is the guy making 13M this season probably doesn't care. Skinners general level of effort is contemptible.

You keep writing $13 million. Where does that number come from?

Skinner had the final three seasons of his deal bought out ($22 million). That means the Sabres have to pay two thirds of that amount spread out over double the term. So six years. If my math is correct that means he’s getting $2.42 million from the Sabres for this season and the next five seasons. So if you add that to the $3 million that the Oilers are paying him, I get a figure of $5.42 million. Not $13. Far from $13.

Perhaps I have an incorrect understanding of the buyout process, and you can correct me?