The Loss of Broberg and Holloway Gripe Thread

[JustNapalmIt]

The dumber part with Holloway is that it seemed like he was actively trying to stay on the team but the team wasn't even opening talks with him, instead prioritizing overpaid veteran trash like arvidsson/Henrique/Skinner. If my employer showed that they didn't even value me enough to talk about a contract extension, and someone came along and offered me double the pay and clearly wanted to make use of my skillset, I'd jump ship too.

Imagine the bolded after 20 games.
Fun

 

[BudBundy]

Because there really isn't any reason to?

A guy that demanded a trade has already secured a $4.6M offer sheet before he even talks to you. What are you supposed to do in that scenario? He pretty obviously isn't taking less money to stay in Edmonton.

As for Holloway, that "no other option" thing is just a silly excuse. Your option would be to wait and sign like every other RFA in the league.

Yep Mr. Holloway, we know you paid your dues and played great in the playoffs. Now just eat your crap sandwich with a smile and watch us sign Jeff fricking Skinner with your money to play ahead of you.

I’d have signed the offer sheet too.

 

[McFlash97]

Jeff Skinner has to go. No 2 ways about it. At this point your just hurting your organizations cap this year keeping this guy in. Management would be neglecting thier duties if they don't see him as a fit. Which they are.

 

[unicornBLOOD]

i'm a bitter, grudge holding, die hard Oiler fan. Even though I get why each guy went after the $$$, and left the Oilers for their own issue(s), I am now a St. Louis Blue HATER. I want that team to lose and keep on losing. I also was hoping that both Holloway and Broberg would struggle and fall on their face.

I saw Broberg as a top pairing potential D, and it looks like that is what he is going to be, it sucks that we blew it with this player. He is good, and is going to be good for a long time, it's gonna be tough to watch him realize that potential with the Blues.

I saw Holloway as middle 6 winger, solid on either roll, able to be a 20-25 goal guy, 40- 60 point guy as his ceiling, and this also looks pretty damn accurate. He's gonna missed here for sure.

The Oilers gambled, trying to save $$ on these RFA deals (and this works 99+% of the time, just not this time - F U Blues), and lost. I check St Louis box scores to see how they did, these 2 are living in my head rent free, and I hate it. I'm going to try and focus on the Oil and their players and forget these $$$ chasing traitors (again - they had reasons and made the correct choice in taking these deals).

 

[Zoupa]

i'm a bitter, grudge holding, die hard Oiler fan. Even though I get why each guy went after the $$$, and left the Oilers for their own issue(s), I am now a St. Louis Blue HATER. I want that team to lose and keep on losing. I also was hoping that both Holloway and Broberg would struggle and fall on their face.

I saw Broberg as a top pairing potential D, and it looks like that is what he is going to be, it sucks that we blew it with this player. He is good, and is going to be good for a long time, it's gonna be tough to watch him realize that potential with the Blues.

I saw Holloway as middle 6 winger, solid on either roll, able to be a 20-25 goal guy, 40- 60 point guy as his ceiling, and this also looks pretty damn accurate. He's gonna missed here for sure.

The Oilers gambled, trying to save $$ on these RFA deals (and this works 99+% of the time, just not this time - F U Blues), and lost. I check St Louis box scores to see how they did, these 2 are living in my head rent free, and I hate it. I'm going to try and focus on the Oil and their players and forget these $$$ chasing traitors (again - they had reasons and made the correct choice in taking these deals).

I don't have anything against the players. They made the obvious decision. I just don't like the Blues management for doing it, lol. So I'm rooting against their team. Although they apparently weren't the only ones. The Blues just offered the most.

 

[guymez]

I don't have anything against the players. They made the obvious decision. I just don't like the Blues management for doing it, lol. So I'm rooting against their team. Although they apparently weren't the only ones. The Blues just offered the most.

I actually dont blame the Blues much at all. They played within the rules.
I put most of the blame on the Oilers management under Holland.
His strategy of "make sure young players are overripe before commiting to them at the NHl level" may have worked fine 20 years ago but its not an approach a team can afford to take now.

Teams need to value thier young players and integrate then into the lineup while they are still cheap.
Thats especially true for this team because they are so top heavy. McDavid, Draisaitl, Bouchard and Nurse are likley to take up almost $50M of cap space.
Maybe if Holland would have rethought his out dated overripe strategy (and worked harder to incorporate those 2 players into the main roster) then those players would still be here.

 

[unicornBLOOD]

I actually dont blame the Blues much at all. They played within the rules.
I put most of the blame on the Oilers management under Holland.
His strategy of "make sure young players are overripe before commiting to them at the NHl level" may have worked fine 20 years ago but its not an approach a team can afford to take now.

Teams need to value thier young players and integrate then into the lineup while they are still cheap.
Thats especially true for this team because they are so top end heavy.
Holland clearly didnt take that approach and if he would have those players would likely still be here.

You're 100% right. Oilers management gambled, and assumed it would work, it did not. Then you add in how they treated both players with playing time and opportunity, it was a no brainer for both of them to be open to and even looking for better deals and better opportunities else where. Broberg got jerked around here pretty good for 2 or 3 years, he wanted no part of this organization long term.

 

[McJadeddog]

Jeff Skinner has to go. No 2 ways about it. At this point your just hurting your organizations cap this year keeping this guy in. Management would be neglecting thier duties if they don't see him as a fit. Which they are.

he has a full NMC, he isn't going anywhere

 

[guymez]

You're 100% right. Oilers management gambled, and assumed it would work, it did not. Then you add in how they treated both players with playing time and opportunity, it was a no brainer for both of them to be open to and even looking for better deals and better opportunities else where. Broberg got jerked around here pretty good for 2 or 3 years, he wanted no part of this organization long term.

Exactly.
Broberg for example is a player that this team invested a lot into.
For Hollands management team to play things like they did was nonsensical.

 

[Zoupa]

he has a full NMC, he isn't going anywhere

He would probably waive it if he starts getting healthy scratched. Not saying he will.

 

[McDNicks17]

Exactly.
Broberg for example is a player that this team invested a lot into.
For Hollands management team to play things like they did was nonsensical.

I feel like it was kind of the opposite.

Holland went so far out of his way to invest as little as he could in the young players that the relationship wasn’t repairable.

 

[guymez]

I feel like it was kind of the opposite.

Holland went so far out of his way to invest as little as he could in the young players that the relationship wasn’t repairable.

At the NHL level for sure....but (as I posted above) it was likely due to his strategy of making sure prospects are over ripe before commiting to them at the NHL level.
He talked about that a ton. That may have been fine 20 years ago before the Cap era but its a bad strategy now.

 

[McDNicks17]

At the NHL level for sure....but (as I posted above) it was likely due to his strategy of making sure prospects are over ripe before commiting to them at the NHL level.
He talked about that a ton. That may have been fine 20 years ago before the Cap era but its a bad strategy now.

Definitely. Holland's obsession with not letting players play on their ELCs and opting for bridges over long term deals really messed up the long term cap.

 

[AM]

We're arguing that the Oilers got caught with their pants down and are now sans two valuable young players, replaced by older vets who so far have not provided adequate value.

Season ended late June. Bowman was hired on July 24th. The offer sheets were signed on August 13th. Plenty of time to hammer out deals or, if not possible, trade them for something more than what they got. Obviously hindsight is 20/20, but if Broberg still couldn't have been convinced to stay then trade him before he got poached.

In essence, the Oilers turned 2 first round picks into a 2nd and a 3rd. Virtually no chance those assets end up as good as what we lost.

They also received salary cap. Pretty spurious argument not acknowledging that.

Yep Mr. Holloway, we know you paid your dues and played great in the playoffs. Now just eat your crap sandwich with a smile and watch us sign Jeff fricking Skinner with your money to play ahead of you.

I’d have signed the offer sheet too.

How much salary does he forego if the oilers win the cup?

 

[AM]

Yeah agree on both counts. I like Podz, but he isn't nearly the offensive player Holloway is.

Holloway should have been extended rather than spending money on Skinner or Arvidsson. We could have signed just one of the above players and kept Holloway, and been a better team, with more youth, speed, and size. Terrible mistake by Jackson, but we can't do anything about it now.

Then you normalize what he did. How do the players who took a discount feel when Holloway gets paid like he’s signing for a bottom feeder?

 

[BudBundy]

How much salary does he forego if the oilers win the cup?

Holloway got a $4.58 million dollar deal. Rumour is the Oilers were balking at $1.0M but could’ve been a touch more. That’s an immediate raise in excess of $2M in just two years. He’s establishing himself in a more featured role than playing behind RNH, Kane, and Skinner. If anything, he’ll earn a bigger contract in 2026 so long as he continues to perform. If the Oilers win a cup this year, it won’t hurt him financially much.

 

[Captain Controversy]

Only the broberg offer sheet hurts. Podz replaced holloway.
I predicted broberg being the best Dman on the oilers in by 2026. Unfortunately he isn't an oilers anymore but he will probably be a better Dman than anyone the oilers have lol

 

[Tarus]

I actually dont blame the Blues much at all. They played within the rules.
I put most of the blame on the Oilers management under Holland.
His strategy of "make sure young players are overripe before commiting to them at the NHl level" may have worked fine 20 years ago but its not an approach a team can afford to take now.

Teams need to value thier young players and integrate then into the lineup while they are still cheap.
Thats especially true for this team because they are so top heavy. McDavid, Draisaitl, Bouchard and Nurse are likley to take up almost $50M of cap space.
Maybe if Holland would have rethought his out dated overripe strategy (and worked harder to incorporate those 2 players into the main roster) then those players would still be here.

Was it really Holland though?

Broberg spent a decent chunk of time in Edmonton and barely played, mostly getting into the lineup as a backup option in a 7th defenseman role in rotation with others. When he did play, Woodcroft/Manson would punish him for any and all mistakes in a way that other players in the roster didn't suffer, until his confidence was clearly shot and the new coaching staff determined that he needed AHL time. I doubt Holland was ordering the coaching staff to play Broberg 8 minutes a night, wasting his ELC years in the NHL while shattering the player's confidence while doing it. You could see Holloway getting a similar treatment too, seeming to never be able to get any traction in the lineup and spending most games acting as benchwarmer.

Seems to me that is where the relationship with the franchise really broke down. Knoblauch showed more confidence in playing both players in the playoffs when everything was on the line than Woodcroft/Manson did the entire year and a half they were in charge. Not really surprising that a few weeks of trust from a new coaching staff didn't erase the frustration and anger of a year and a half of being jerked around either.

 

[AM]

Holloway got a $4.58 million dollar deal. Rumour is the Oilers were balking at $1.0M but could’ve been a touch more. That’s an immediate raise in excess of $2M in just two years. He’s establishing himself in a more featured role than playing behind RNH, Kane, and Skinner. If anything, he’ll earn a bigger contract in 2026 so long as he continues to perform. If the Oilers win a cup this year, it won’t hurt him financially much.

Good thing we didn’t give him the money then.

Only the broberg offer sheet hurts. Podz replaced holloway.
I predicted broberg being the best Dman on the oilers in by 2026. Unfortunately he isn't an oilers anymore but he will probably be a better Dman than anyone the oilers have lol

I predict he will be injured.

 

[guymez]

Was it really Holland though?

Broberg spent a decent chunk of time in Edmonton and barely played, mostly getting into the lineup as a backup option in a 7th defenseman role in rotation with others. When he did play, Woodcroft/Manson would punish him for any and all mistakes in a way that other players in the roster didn't suffer, until his confidence was clearly shot and the new coaching staff determined that he needed AHL time. I doubt Holland was ordering the coaching staff to play Broberg 8 minutes a night, wasting his ELC years in the NHL while shattering the player's confidence while doing it. You could see Holloway getting a similar treatment too, seeming to never be able to get any traction in the lineup and spending most games acting as benchwarmer.

Seems to me that is where the relationship with the franchise really broke down. Knoblauch showed more confidence in playing both players in the playoffs when everything was on the line than Woodcroft/Manson did the entire year and a half they were in charge. Not really surprising that a few weeks of trust from a new coaching staff didn't erase the frustration and anger of a year and a half of being jerked around either.

Thats a fair point and maybe the blame could be spread around a bit.
That being said I think that the Management group (which includes Holland and Knoblauch/Woody) have to be on the same page. Its hard for a team to have any success if segments of the management group are at odds with the plan.
Perhaps it was a lack of communication. Hard to know but Holland as the GM is the prime decision maker with the team.
I cant imagine Holland having a conversation with Knoblauch about Brobergs contract situation and how the team needed to work Broberg into the lineup and Knoblauch decided to ignore that request.
Could have happened...just seems unlikely.

 

[Fourier]

You're 100% right. Oilers management gambled, and assumed it would work, it did not. Then you add in how they treated both players with playing time and opportunity, it was a no brainer for both of them to be open to and even looking for better deals and better opportunities else where. Broberg got jerked around here pretty good for 2 or 3 years, he wanted no part of this organization long term.

I don't think Holloway has much to complain about concerning usage or even what he was offered. People can debate Broberg's usage but in reality he was the #4 LHD on this team last year. If he was not interested in playing on the right that was an issue. It can be argued that moving Kulak to the right was the answer but how much do you do to accommodate a kid when your goal is to win? That is not an easy question to answer. And it seems that Broberg had a foot out the door well before the playoffs.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

They also received salary cap. Pretty spurious argument not acknowledging that.


How much salary does he forego if the oilers win the cup?

Cap space doesn't score goals, defend, or make a save. The Oilers are banking on the team being in prime position by the TDL to load up for another deep playoff run. While I didn't mind the additions of Skinner and Arvidsson at the time, I also didn't feel like they were addressing the team's needs.

 

[FlameChampion]

Been awhile since I checked this thread.

Foegeles comments are kind of interesting. Perhaps it gives some insight of why bottom 6 players struggle to gain much traction here. I believe Perry made some comments recently also where he indicated that the room can be a bit intimidating for skill players and its easier for role players to fit in. (I would argue that the majority of role players dont fit well on this team either though). I do think its important that the leadership group and the coaching staff work to get as many guys going as possible, something that I think they struggle with personally. Foegeles comments come off a bit like hes pouting. Perhaps some guys are just always going to have a drop in motivation/enthusiasm when they are in the bottom 6 on this team. As for Foegele himself, he was here for 3 years. He didnt do much in his first 2 seasons. In his last season, he was generally only productive when Draisaitl was juicing his numbers. His bottom 6 production was pretty poor. Credit him for taking advantage of the opportunities when he was given them and getting a pretty nice contract as a result. But he was brought here to make the third line better, and I dont think he succeeded in that.

As for Holloways comments, I am not surprised by them. I am sure Jackson knew fairly early on that the offer sheets were possible. Guess it just depends what the actual ask was (not what was reported). Based on his production, 2.3m was rich. I guess my question is, would of he signed a 2x1.5m? (which would of been fair imo). Or once he knew he might get 2.3m, was his ask 2+m?. I think the threat of an offersheets happens more than we think and it is business as usual. The team and player will generally find a deal that both sides eventually agree on. Signing an offer sheet obviously causes bad blood but it generally never comes to that. One thing I dont really see discussed a lot is the double offer sheet. In this particular case which is unprecedented - I wouldn't be surprised if the team found it predatory. Both players leveraged each other to put the team in a bad spot. I think thats the reason more than anything, that it wasnt matched.

Discussing Broberg being a future Oiler I think is pointless personally. I dont think he wanted to be here and wanted a new opportunity. Furthermore it was reported that he didnt want to play the right side, so that doesnt help. I dont blame him for signing the offersheet but I also dont blame the Oilers for not matching. Was time to move on.

My question is if Jackson knew these offer sheets were coming, why didnt he do anything proactively about it? Did he try and trade the players to see if they had more value than the compensation? I do wonder how much other GM's know. Did other GM's know the Blues were going to offersheet both players? Because if they did, I am sure that hurts their value. Its kind of fascinating story and its too bad we were in the middle of it.

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

Been awhile since I checked this thread.

Foegeles comments are kind of interesting. Perhaps it gives some insight of why bottom 6 players struggle to gain much traction here. I believe Perry made some comments recently also where he indicated that the room can be a bit intimidating for skill players and its easier for role players to fit in. (I would argue that the majority of role players dont fit well on this team either though). I do think its important that the leadership group and the coaching staff work to get as many guys going as possible, something that I think they struggle with personally. Foegeles comments come off a bit like hes pouting. Perhaps some guys are just always going to have a drop in motivation/enthusiasm when they are in the bottom 6 on this team. As for Foegele himself, he was here for 3 years. He didnt do much in his first 2 seasons. In his last season, he was generally only productive when Draisaitl was juicing his numbers. His bottom 6 production was pretty poor. Credit him for taking advantage of the opportunities when he was given them and getting a pretty nice contract as a result. But he was brought here to make the third line better, and I dont think he succeeded in that.

As for Holloways comments, I am not surprised by them. I am sure Jackson knew fairly early on that the offer sheets were possible. Guess it just depends what the actual ask was (not what was reported). Based on his production, 2.3m was rich. I guess my question is, would of he signed a 2x1.5m? (which would of been fair imo). Or once he knew he might get 2.3m, was his ask 2+m?. I think the threat of an offersheets happens more than we think and it is business as usual. The team and player will generally find a deal that both sides eventually agree on. Signing an offer sheet obviously causes bad blood but it generally never comes to that. One thing I dont really see discussed a lot is the double offer sheet. In this particular case which is unprecedented - I wouldn't be surprised if the team found it predatory. Both players leveraged each other to put the team in a bad spot. I think thats the reason more than anything, that it wasnt matched.

Discussing Broberg being a future Oiler I think is pointless personally. I dont think he wanted to be here and wanted a new opportunity. Furthermore it was reported that he didnt want to play the right side, so that doesnt help. I dont blame him for signing the offersheet but I also dont blame the Oilers for not matching. Was time to move on.

My question is if Jackson knew these offer sheets were coming, why didnt he do anything proactively about it? Did he try and trade the players to see if they had more value than the compensation? I do wonder how much other GM's know. Did other GM's know the Blues were going to offersheet both players? Because if they did, I am sure that hurts their value. Its kind of fascinating story and its too bad we were in the middle of it.

what did Foegele say exactly?