TV: The Last of Us (HBO)

Osprey

Registered User
Feb 18, 2005
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I mean you are omitting the entire conversation with Tommy where the reason he did all of that is because he didn't think he was good enough to protect her anymore. In his mind he wasn't abandoning her he was protecting her more by letting Tommy take over. That was literally the entire point. I would say you might have missed it.
I didn't miss that. I just don't think that it changes it. A woman who abandons a baby on the doorstep of a church because she's not fit to take care of it still abandoned it. Having good intentions for doing something doesn't mean that you didn't do it.
 
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TheBeastCoast

Registered User
Mar 23, 2011
32,567
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Dartmouth,NS
No, I didn't miss that. I just don't think that the reason changes it. A woman who abandons a baby on the doorstep of a church because she's not fit to take care of it still abandoned it. Having good intentions for doing something doesn't mean that you didn't do it.
He also didn't actually abandon her. Talking about it isn't doing it.
 

Osprey

Registered User
Feb 18, 2005
27,922
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He also didn't actually abandon her. Talking about it isn't doing it.
Well, he seemingly did, according to the definition. He just changed his mind and wanted her back. That's how I see it, but if you guys see it differently, that's fine. It's just a difference of opinion of what we call it.
 

Walkingthroughforest

I got the worst ******* attorneys
Aug 19, 2007
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This isn't a Checkhov's gun. It's not a gun sitting on the set somewhere, it would be an infected they actually face and fend off as part of David gaining Ellie's trust (just like in the game). It's already been paid off.
The Chekhov’s gun is setting up that the woods surrounding the town are dangerous. That’s where the payoff would have to happen.

Tried to watch the show (played the games long ago) but the absurd usage of the ffff word is non-stop in the first episode... does it slow down or... what?

You sure you played the game?
 

TheBeastCoast

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Mar 23, 2011
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Tried to watch the show (played the games long ago) but the absurd usage of the ffff word is non-stop in the first episode... does it slow down or... what?
So you didn't play the game? Ellie's use of the f word is entirely in line with her character in the game.
 

LOGiK

Registered User
Nov 14, 2007
18,413
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So you didn't play the game? Ellie's use of the f word is entirely in line with her character in the game.
I just told you I did. I can't remember last week let alone the dialogue of a game over ten years ago!
Asking seriously because it's really annoying.
 

Hivemind

We're Touched
Oct 8, 2010
37,467
14,121
Philadelphia
The Chekhov’s gun is setting up that the woods surrounding the town are dangerous. That’s where the payoff would have to happen.
Once again, the payoff would have already happened. This isn't a "oh, look, there's an infected out there in the woods that we have to sneak by" - it's David and Ellie fending off the infected together as David gains her trust.

Tried to watch the show (played the games long ago) but the absurd usage of the ffff word is non-stop in the first episode... does it slow down or... what?
If curse words offend you, there's going to be a lot more than deeply troubles you in this series (and the games). :biglaugh:
 
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Walkingthroughforest

I got the worst ******* attorneys
Aug 19, 2007
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Once again, the payoff would have already happened. This isn't a "oh, look, there's an infected out there in the woods that we have to sneak by" - it's David and Ellie fending off the infected together as David gains her trust.


If curse words offend you, there's going to be a lot more than deeply troubles you in this series (and the games). :biglaugh:
I don’t think I agree, and neither did Mazin or Drukmann. I think just by establishing that there are infected in the woods so close to the town, you’re putting down seeds that they have to interact in some way.
 

Hivemind

We're Touched
Oct 8, 2010
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Philadelphia
I don’t think I agree, and neither did Mazin or Drukmann. I think just by establishing that there are infected in the woods so close to the town, you’re putting down seeds that they have to interact in some way.
They've. Already. Interacted.

This isn't showing the basement floor bulging like they did in Kansas City. This isn't even foreshadowing that the fungal networks interlink and draw the infected to each other like they did in episode 2. This isn't a "set up and then pay off" scenario like a Chekhov's Gun.
 

T REX

Registered User
Feb 28, 2013
12,243
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Well, he seemingly did, according to the definition. He just changed his mind and wanted her back. That's how I see it, but if you guys see it differently, that's fine. It's just a difference of opinion of what we call it.
I took it even further...he felt like he was becoming attached to her and Ellie reminds him of his own daughter. He was distraught at having to leave her and ultimately him caring(about her not just humanity) made him want to protect even more. JMHO

But the show is freaking epic.
 

Walkingthroughforest

I got the worst ******* attorneys
Aug 19, 2007
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They've. Already. Interacted.

This isn't showing the basement floor bulging like they did in Kansas City. This isn't even foreshadowing that the fungal networks interlink and draw the infected to each other like they did in episode 2. This isn't a "set up and then pay off" scenario like a Chekhov's Gun.
I understand what you’re saying, and I’m saying that I believe that any interaction with them would have put them on a collision course with the town in some way regardless.

Even if Ellie and David killed a runner or clicker, just establishing the infected exist so close to the town, it establishes the town isn’t safe, which is the set up.
 

Hivemind

We're Touched
Oct 8, 2010
37,467
14,121
Philadelphia
I understand what you’re saying, and I’m saying that I believe that any interaction with them would have put them on a collision course with the town in some way regardless.

Even if Ellie and David killed a runner or clicker, just establishing the infected exist so close to the town, it establishes the town isn’t safe, which is the set up.
The town isn't safe, cordyceps is an ever present threat. That's the point! That's why these people have flocked to a false savior in David. That's why food is so scarce, and it's so dangerous to forage and hunt. That's why he's maintained control despite the fact that the people under his lead are increasingly aware they're eating their own dead.

Just because the woods are dangerous doesn't mean that there has to be an infected attack on the town. It's not a set-up for a further attack, it's building the setting in a "show, don't tell" fashion. The narrative purpose isn't to establish a later threat. It's narrative purpose is to establish David's character to the audience and simultaneously build trust between David and the audience in the same way David builds trust with Ellie. It then accentuates the turn of David when he reveals that Joel killed a member of his group, and then the mask is peeled away to reveal his other, more monstrous predilections.

 
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Walkingthroughforest

I got the worst ******* attorneys
Aug 19, 2007
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The town isn't safe, cordyceps is an ever present threat. That's the point! That's why these people have flocked to a false savior in David. That's why food is so scarce, and it's so dangerous to forage and hunt. That's why he's maintained control despite the fact that the people under his lead are increasingly aware they're eating their own dead.

Just because the woods are dangerous doesn't mean that there has to be an infected attack on the town. It's not a set-up for a further attack, it's building the setting in a "show, don't tell" fashion. The narrative purpose isn't to establish a later threat. It's narrative purpose is to establish David's character to the audience and simultaneously build trust between David and the audience in the same way David builds trust with Ellie. It then accentuates the turn of David when he reveals that Joel killed a member of his group, and then the mask is peeled away to reveal his other, more monstrous predilections.


The narrative structure of the show is different than the game. You can have the infected attacks at any time and it doesn’t necessarily mean that it has to pay off in any way in the narrative because it’s a gameplay encounter.

The show has established that any interaction with the infected is serious and likely fatal. Every single time they’ve show up on screen it has lead to someone’s death.

While they are the big picture threat of the world, the minute they show up it is narratively significant because of how serious the show has treated them. I believe that if they had shown up early in the episode, that would have been a significant set up for that story. I think having them physically present near the town essentially forces the narrative to acknowledge and deal with that threat seriously.
 
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HanSolo

DJ Crazy Times
Apr 7, 2008
99,261
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I personally don't think we needed to be lulled into a false sense of comfort and trust in David so as to necessitate David fighting for her to make that moment more impactful. If there was more time, sure, but the way they presented it was more than fine. I think it's enough that he's established as this leader taking care of his "flock" while slowly (but more quickly than the game I guess) peeling back the layers to reveal the monster. The same general effect was reached, if a little less than.
 

stephenball

Registered User
Jan 7, 2018
568
1,133
I would also say in a show format occasionally having people just deal with some infected just to remind you they’re out there could be a flaw in the other direction. Right now they are a monolithic destructive entity that we know destroyed the world, and they also set up for the show that when you deal with infected you’re likely to deal with a lot of them. Just occasionally throwing in some infected and having Joel pop them off could make people think “eh, hey aren’t a big deal” like people eventually did with classic zombies.
 

Mr Fahrenheit

Valar Morghulis
Oct 9, 2009
7,904
3,577
I think you need an occasional infected, even if they are just avoiding them and not having an action scene, because one, they are the reason everything is how it is so there should be a presence and two, they are a unique creature and not just your average zombie or other monster so they should be shown off
 

Osprey

Registered User
Feb 18, 2005
27,922
10,804
I think you need an occasional infected, even if they are just avoiding them and not having an action scene, because one, they are the reason everything is how it is so there should be a presence and two, they are a unique creature and not just your average zombie or other monster so they should be shown off
Good point. Combat scenes aren't necessary to make the threat of the infected felt. For example, Ellie and Joel could spot the infected in the distance, find other evidence that they're in the area, sneak through/around them and/or just run away from them (especially if there are too many to fight). Showing that the infected are better left avoided, rather than engaged, reinforces that they are a big deal.
 

Saskatoon

Registered User
Aug 24, 2006
2,166
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Saskatoon
I feel like an idiot haha - just finally had time for the episode. I thought a case of mistaken identity had happened and a separate adult male/female child pair killed the father from the resort. I was waiting for them to show up in some fashion - then my wife pointed out that they didn't get far from the university and I was the idiot. :laugh:

Minor question - who are the people hanging that Joel sees near the end? I knew they ate the girls father but nobody else had died recently in the resort other than who Joel/Ellie killed. I feel like it was to reinforce the cannibalism but like Ellie already directly called them out for it.

I really enjoyed the episode and loved the tension at the end. I am left wondering where are all the rest of the group though - the steakhouse (which is their main structure it seems) is on fire and nobody else comes to check it out? Joel and Ellie just seemingly walk away without seeing another soul.
 

GKJ

Global Moderator
Feb 27, 2002
193,390
43,676
I feel like an idiot haha - just finally had time for the episode. I thought a case of mistaken identity had happened and a separate adult male/female child pair killed the father from the resort. I was waiting for them to show up in some fashion - then my wife pointed out that they didn't get far from the university and I was the idiot. :laugh:

Minor question - who are the people hanging that Joel sees near the end? I knew they ate the girls father but nobody else had died recently in the resort other than who Joel/Ellie killed. I feel like it was to reinforce the cannibalism but like Ellie already directly called them out for it.

I really enjoyed the episode and loved the tension at the end. I am left wondering where are all the rest of the group though - the steakhouse (which is their main structure it seems) is on fire and nobody else comes to check it out? Joel and Ellie just seemingly walk away without seeing another soul.
Guessing they’re just other people that died, perhaps they’re preserving them.
 

Osprey

Registered User
Feb 18, 2005
27,922
10,804
I feel like an idiot haha - just finally had time for the episode. I thought a case of mistaken identity had happened and a separate adult male/female child pair killed the father from the resort. I was waiting for them to show up in some fashion - then my wife pointed out that they didn't get far from the university and I was the idiot. :laugh:
I was a little confused by that, too. I think that part of it is that there was an episode that was almost entirely a flashback in between the two episodes. If this episode had directly followed the one with the university, it would've been easier to put the two story lines together. Another thing is that the resort looked like it was a long way from the university, at a higher elevation and at the base of a mountain. It didn't look like the people living there could be some of the same as at the university, especially since they didn't have horses (likely eaten).
 

sdf

Registered User
Jan 23, 2015
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Rostov on Don
Lol, any traces of people who were shown, when their house started burning? Forget about them:laugh:
 
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Saskatoon

Registered User
Aug 24, 2006
2,166
1,154
Saskatoon
Lol, any traces of people who were shown, when their house started burning? Forget about them:laugh:

Yea that was really the biggest confusing part for me in an otherwise excellent episode. At least show some of the others watching them leave - Joel and Ellie did kill off a large amount of the fighters
 

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