Mikeaveli
Registered User
I loved the System Shock remake as well and never played SS2 but I'm waiting for the Enhanced Edition Nightdive is working on to come out before playing it.
I remember that and laughing at it, myself. My assumption has always been that they didn't want to pay for a professional male voice actor to come in and record only one word, so one of the devs just voiced it, himself. Maybe re-recording that one word will be one of the few selling points of the enhanced edition.Yeah, that's the thing. The remake is going to take some serious time. I was just in the mood to finally play it and figured I'd just play it vanilla. It honestly looks great for a 25 year old game. Character models are obviously dated but the textures looked great.
I will say though, spoilers for the ending:
The end cutscene honestly had me burst out laughing. Shodan's voice acting and the filters on the voice were so damn good all the way through. She does her speech and the silent protagonist throughout the entire game, who doesn't say a single word, responds to "join me and we can rule the world" with the most casual, terribly delivered "nah" as his only voice line throughout the whole game. I did not see it coming at all and the delivery was so bad I just lost it. I've already gone back and watched it on Youtube several times just to laugh some more at it.
Bit late to this, but both of those things would compromise the point of the game's themes and also get in the way of that unexpected but beautiful note of hopefulness/perspective that undercuts it moments later, in my view. Both the supposed intrigue of the murder and the "I can be whoever I want to be because I apparently questionably have amnesia" freedom is a facade and a form of escapism that the protagonist uses throughout the game to run away from himself and his real problems and that arguably has put him down this path of spiraling. Having either aspect end in some sensational grand epiphany or some masterstroke of detective-work that blows your mind or that changes his life rather than hit the somber notes of cold hard, unceremonious reality and reflection that it does would completely defeat the purpose, in my opinion.I don't see why the same themes and character development couldn't be tied into a game where you have to figure out who the murderer is Or a game where your choices affect the story
If you're back in this thread please tell me why you like Kentucky Route Zero.Bit late to this, but both of those things would compromise the point of the game's themes and also get in the way of that unexpected but beautiful note of hopefulness/perspective that undercuts it moments later, in my view. Both the supposed intrigue of the murder and the "I can be whoever I want to be because I apparently questionably have amnesia" freedom is a facade and a form of escapism that the protagonist uses throughout the game to run away from himself and his real problems and that arguably has put him down this path of spiraling. Having either aspect end in some sensational grand epiphany or some masterstroke of detective-work that blows your mind or that changes his life rather than hit the somber notes of cold hard, unceremonious reality and reflection that it does would completely defeat the purpose, in my opinion.
It would also be focusing on and congratulating the superficial in a way that just wouldn't sit right with me, personally. Feeding into arbitrary gameplay/entertainment/fun-driven player-demand/expectations (which is all "I want my choices to matter" really is) when they aren't appropriate to the art itself would be a mistake, in my view. In contrast, I feel like something like Stanley Parable where your choices can result in a million different outcomes just ends up being kind of obnoxiously masturbatory rather than thought-provoking. There's also value to having choices in games beyond simply having them determining outcomes-- The value of choices in games like Disco Elysium is more about giving the player the ability to collaborate on and adjust the flavor of the experience/narrative.
On top of that, Disco Elysium is not a game about big picture outcomes/narrative beats to begin with, but instead a game about the tiny subtle moments, relationship dynamics, and synapsis firing in your brain between them (and your choices do influence those quite a bit).
Yeah, I was reading what you said earlier. I think the game is broadly about doing what you can to find solace and meaning in art and community in the face of hopeless circumstances where systemic (I guess capitalist-driven) forces hold you down (something out of your control). It's definitely more dry and less like an emotionally dramatic rollercoaster than most videogame stories, but the soul of everything is very authentically and tastefully felt, IMO.If you're back in this thread please tell me why you like Kentucky Route Zero.
I appreciate you posting these. I still don't think the majority of it is done as well as you say, but this is still more coherent than the thoughts I was able to find online when I played it and wrote it up. I just didn't feel invested in the place or the people at all.Yeah, I was reading what you said earlier. I think the game is broadly about doing what you can to find solace and meaning in art and community in the face of hopeless circumstances where systemic (I guess capitalist-driven) forces hold you down (something out of your control). It's definitely more dry and less like an emotionally dramatic rollercoaster than most videogame stories, but the soul of everything is very authentically and tastefully felt, IMO.
Regarding choices mattering, I think that Kentucky Route Zero is an even more extreme case of what I mentioned about Disco Elysium. I think the idea of making choices to influence direct outcomes is antithetical and inappropriate to what the game's communicating narratively, and frankly, I find the value of that particular brand of "choices matter" that a lot of people seem to want in videogames to be a little superficial and overrated in general anyways (at the very least, not everything has to be that to be worthwhile). Choices do matter in Kentucky Route Zero, but only indirectly/modestly and not in the min-maxing/event-changing way that people seem to want-- the purpose is just to influence the flavor/color of the experience and to have the player collaborate in details of the narrative (which I don't think is any less valid or lacking in value). This gameplay choice reflects the themes of the narrative in how people trapped in dire situations don't always have a choice to actually change the direct circumstances that they're stuck in, but they do have the ability to find respite and value in their approach to little things (such as art/community/humanism). The game very deliberately tutorializes that this is how the entire game will function when it first introduces the poetry password in Equus Oils, where your choice strangely doesn't actually influence whether you're granted passage (every password you enter results in the same thing), it only influences the mood of that moment as a result of that choice's text (I believe this is setting up what's basically the thesis statement of the game, and I think the sentiment works really well).
Personally, I found the delicate way that Conway's fate was handled to be really harrowing, tasteful, and effective. How its snowballs from something innocuous, how the realization of his circumstances slowly set in, he begins to accept what's to become of his life, eventually resigns to agreeing with the non-choice, and how he just becomes one of the other lifeless skeletons and gets swallowed up by those invisible (I guess capitalist-driven) forces. The way the remaining cast then has to soldier on in wake of that and make do with similar circumstances and eventually finding solace in what they do/can have (and what I guess Conway was searching for this whole time but tragically couldn't find, symbolized by Dogwood Drive) at the end is all very poignant to me. It's never really pointed out in an overtly on the nose way, you just read between the lines and it's there (and yeah, I would consider that a fitting "ending").
It's definitely not for everyone, and I struggled on my first play-through as well (mostly just due to attention span issues on my end, which is the case for a lot of my favorite media). But I wouldn't say it's a case where you tolerate the slow and puzzling bits to get to some brilliant epiphany/moment of clarity that makes the drudgery all worthwhile or something. The things that make it tough to warm up to and the fact that it side-steps a lot of the cheaper melodrama, emotional manipulation gimmicks, and hand-hold-y engagement techniques that most videogame stories use and that might make things more palatable (not sure if your Red Dead example would fall into that category for me, but it might) are partly what I loved about it. Everything's done with a lot of uncompromising restraint and artfulness in a way that I really appreciated.
Just going down the list of things I loved, the aesthetics and art direction are beautiful in a timeless way that I wish more games adopted, you can feel the labor of love in everything, most of the scenarios are very clever and creatively thought out, usually have something amusingly unconventional/surreal about it, or have some visually striking idea, symbol, or imagery to it that feeds further into the larger themes mentioned above, and moments are allowed to fully breath and ruminate rather than rush from beat to beat like most games. I agree that the sense of place and atmosphere it has does a lot for it-- it puts you in this quiet, contemplative and meditative state, and this surreal, dream-like mood, that lets you really sink into the moment in a way that you rarely get. The game's often puzzling, impenetrable, and mysterious in a way that to me is not a bad thing at all, and can feel really satisfying to just marinate in and think about, if you can get into the right mindset (I agree it can be a tough sell to try to get into that mindset, but I found it really worthwhile, personally). I also just felt a lot of awe and wonder at a lot of the set pieces and particular creative choices in general (how the Conway stuff plays out being an example of that).
If I were to look for criticism, I would say that the lengthy side-flavor-text that you encounter when stopping at various optional/out-of-the-way places on the map are often not very compelling and can feel like a drag to get through for me (like when you take a detour to a random place and it's just a wall of text about some guy listening to a basketball game on the radio or something-- I'm sure there's relevance, but I can't bring myself to care in those instances), but I don't feel this way about anything from the main story, interludes, or even the optional stuff that are actual visual scenes.
Don't know if you came across it, but personally, I thought this one was very good.I appreciate you posting these. I still don't think the majority of it is done as well as you say, but this is still more coherent than the thoughts I was able to find online when I played it and wrote it up. I just didn't feel invested in the place or the people at all.