The Jarmo Thread

[Iron Balls McGinty]

Can anyone of all religions come bring some holy water or something and put on the ice. Burn some sage, Bring in a voodoo priest. I don't care. Just do something.

 

[Old Guy]

Look..........I don't want to stop a lynch mob. Y'all have the right to go as crazy as you want......both today, and the day the playoffs start, on draft day, and on July 1st. I'm not here to stop that.

But if you want Jarmo fired, does anybody care to suggest a replacement? Do you just want the seat left open? Does any warm body other than Jarmo work for you? Mike Milbury? Pierre Dorion? He's going to be looking for work. Pierre McGuire? He's got a Dougie MacLean sized ego, does that work for you?

It just seems like one move begets another. But I'm just an Old Guy.

Carry on with your pitchforks and torches. Oh yea.....Yzerman ain't coming to C-bus.

 

[KJ Dangler]

You basically made the point about how Jarmo has to share the blame. Remind me who selected Torts to be HC of the Jackets? Was it any mystery who Torts was as a coach? He's an old-school, hard-ass who values checking/physical play/effort over skill. So what does Jarmo do - he gets a couple of skilled forwards for the top two lines with limited time to get them integrated by the coaching staff for the stretch run to the POs. Who could've known there'd be problems getting this to gel over a handful of games? If Jarmo is surprised by what's happening, then the dude hasn't been paying attention. Jarmo's TDL moves showed me that he over-values (and misjudges) the Jackets' actual competitiveness against the best teams in the EC.

Not really ... my guess is that JD pushed for Torts . And look , I’m not saying his 3 years here were a waste . He’s just taken the team as far as he’s able to , with his limited old school mindset , and his shelf life has expired . Just like the criticism on Bob , they have gotten there , and not performed in the playoffs , it’s not to say we haven’t had any success . But he squanders offensive talent more times then not , and sitting pat most likely results in missing the playoffs

 

[Viqsi]

Look..........I don't want to stop a lynch mob. Y'all have the right to go as crazy as you want......both today, and the day the playoffs start, on draft day, and on July 1st. I'm not here to stop that.

But if you want Jarmo fired, does anybody care to suggest a replacement? Do you just want the seat left open? Does any warm body other than Jarmo work for you? Mike Milbury? Pierre Dorion? He's going to be looking for work. Pierre McGuire? He's got a Dougie MacLean sized ego, does that work for you?

It just seems like one move begets another. But I'm just an Old Guy.

Carry on with your pitchforks and torches. Oh yea.....Yzerman ain't coming to C-bus.

Amusingly enough, one of the top GM candidates out there that folks keep talking about around the League would be a promotion from within - Bill Zito.

Not that I'm ready to fire Kekalainen yet, but there is at least a guy in waiting. Assuming the mob doesn't want to massacre the entire current administration, anyways.

 

[Albatros]

They are two points behind with 17 games to go and some want to hang him for trying? I would understand going separate ways next summer if they do fail, but right now this sounds just silly.

 

[NotWendell]

They are two points behind with 17 games to go and some want to hang him for trying? I would understand going separate ways next summer if they do fail, but right now this sounds just silly.

Quite right. Wait until he fails, THEN hang him! LOL

 

[Robert]

I've been through more CBJ General Managers and coaches than carter has liver pills... Jarmo and Torts are not the issue, they are doing the best in CBJ history.... Bobrovsky is the issue.... And the forces behind playing a guy who clearly wants out of Columbus...

I smell Mike Priest in this debacle...

 

[Robert]

 

[We Want Ten]

I've been through more CBJ General Managers and coaches than carter has liver pills... Jarmo and Torts are not the issue, they are doing the best in CBJ history.... Bobrovsky is the issue.... And the forces behind playing a guy who clearly wants out of Columbus...

I smell Mike Priest in this debacle...

Bob certainly carries some blame, but to say Torts is not the issue, I dunno. I think he is ultimately responsible for putting the best players on the ice he has, he routinely doesn't.

I give Jarmo a pass here so far, he did his job IMO. He went and on paper made his team better. Ultimately the coach and players have to figure it out.

 

[Mayor Bee]

Why are we mad at Jarmo again ? For going out and getting a #1 center, and a very talented top 6 winger in Dzingel ? With the expansion coming up, has anyone thought that they are making these moves, because there will have to be players moved for assets, or they will be exposed to Seattle . Nothing in this draft was going to help the team next year . There will be plenty of moves Jarmo will have to make, that will get draft picks back. For example, dont be suprised to see Werenski shopped this summer. He will command a huge return because of his age, offensive ability. The Jackets have a great core of defenseman in Jones, Murray, Nutivaara, Garikov, Savard, Harrington, Kukan, Carlsson, and Clendening, and depth defenseman can be aquired rather cheaply. This mess currently going on, lies directly at the feet of our head coach and his staff. You think Jarmo likes drafting all these young skill guys, only to watch them be thwarted , playing in Torts system. Hell , last night, Torts talking about Duchene, and Dzingel, said they have been focusing on playing differently , away from the puck. More offensive talent squandered by Torts. Ditch the stupid Safe is death, and let your forwards play their game.

This front office inherited a playoff team that could get to the first round but unlikely to go much further, and six years later this team still has not advanced past the first round. The scouting staff was doubled. An extra assistant GM was added. All sorts of changes were made.

For four consecutive years this team has gone into the season regarded as a contender, and they have not made it past round one a single time.

This front office has been on the job almost as long as Doug MacLean was, and they have not elevated this team beyond where it was when they first started. Sure, talk about "credibility" and "professionalism" and "image" all you want, but the simple fact is that there are thirty-one teams in the NHL and thirty of them (including a first-year expansion team one year ago) have actually won a playoff series. This one has not.

Until this team actually rises up and makes noise in the playoffs, the front office will continue to take criticism that is 100% justified. Or, they'll continue to get a free pass while all the criticism is aimed behind the bench because somehow it always seems to be someone else's fault.

When this front office started, it was a playoff team backed by a 24-year-old Vezina-winning goalie and going into a loaded draft with three 1st-round picks. There is a very good possibility that this team will miss the playoffs completely, finish behind a middling Hurricanes team run by Don ****ing Waddell, lose four prime free agents for absolutely nothing, and have only a 3rd-rounder and a 7th-rounder to try to draft with.

Oh well.

 

[majormajor]

This front office inherited a playoff team that could get to the first round but unlikely to go much further, and six years later this team still has not advanced past the first round. The scouting staff was doubled. An extra assistant GM was added. All sorts of changes were made.

This roster is vastly better than the roster in 2013 that required Vezina level goaltending just to crack the middle of the league. Howson gets terribly underrated here, he left behind a greatly enlarged pile of assets, but a pile of assets is not a hockey team. There were things that needed fixing, which was bound to take years. The D was built around Tyutin, Wisniewski, and Jack Johnson, all of whom were soon to be beyond useless. Compare that to the talent of the D group that Jarmo has assembled.

This front office has been on the job almost as long as Doug MacLean was, and they have not elevated this team beyond where it was when they first started. Sure, talk about "credibility" and "professionalism" and "image" all you want, but the simple fact is that there are thirty-one teams in the NHL and thirty of them (including a first-year expansion team one year ago) have actually won a playoff series. This one has not.

You don't measure someone who's been here for 6 years based on something that started 20 years ago. It always amuses me when someone asks a Jackets player in the room about "the stress of being the only franchise to never win a series." You can see their eyes skitter around, wondering how to politely say that they don't care, because they've been here three years and this is the team as they know it and they don't think about what came before. You and your Alex Svitov anecdotes, it might as well be about the Hartford Whalers to this current team. If you had a care for fairness you would see how Jarmo's team stacks up to other clubs during, not before, Jarmo's tenure. The club being near the top of the league in wins over the last 3 years would seem to be relevant.

When this front office started, it was a playoff team backed by a 24-year-old Vezina-winning goalie and going into a loaded draft with three 1st-round picks.

Yeah you should look back at that "loaded draft". Wennberg has fallen apart, but he also has more career points than any player drafted after him. Jarmo turned Rychel into Harrington and Dano+ into Saad into Panarin. Pretty good value out of the shallowest draft in ages.

 

[Viqsi]

This front office inherited a playoff team that could get to the first round but unlikely to go much further, and six years later this team still has not advanced past the first round. The scouting staff was doubled. An extra assistant GM was added. All sorts of changes were made.

For four consecutive years this team has gone into the season regarded as a contender, and they have not made it past round one a single time.

This front office has been on the job almost as long as Doug MacLean was, and they have not elevated this team beyond where it was when they first started. Sure, talk about "credibility" and "professionalism" and "image" all you want, but the simple fact is that there are thirty-one teams in the NHL and thirty of them (including a first-year expansion team one year ago) have actually won a playoff series. This one has not.

Until this team actually rises up and makes noise in the playoffs, the front office will continue to take criticism that is 100% justified. Or, they'll continue to get a free pass while all the criticism is aimed behind the bench because somehow it always seems to be someone else's fault.

When this front office started, it was a playoff team backed by a 24-year-old Vezina-winning goalie and going into a loaded draft with three 1st-round picks. There is a very good possibility that this team will miss the playoffs completely, finish behind a middling Hurricanes team run by Don ****ing Waddell, lose four prime free agents for absolutely nothing, and have only a 3rd-rounder and a 7th-rounder to try to draft with.

Oh well.

I remember when you had cogent arguments in favor of Howson, rather than just "he's my guy, and this guy isn't my guy, therefore Howson was better and this guy sucks."

I mean, seriously. You're now pushing the same "same old jackets" nonsense folks used to use all the time to insist that Howson was no better than Doug MacLean. You can and have done a hell of a lot better than this kind of drivel.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

I remember when you had cogent arguments in favor of Howson, rather than just "he's my guy, and this guy isn't my guy, therefore Howson was better and this guy sucks."

I mean, seriously. You're now pushing the same "same old jackets" nonsense folks used to use all the time to insist that Howson was no better than Doug MacLean. You can and have done a hell of a lot better than this kind of drivel.

So it leads one to question the point of making the post.

 

[JacketsDavid]

After 6 seasons we are at best average. Wild Card playoff team that gets knocked out in first round.
That's better than the history of this franchise, but not many teams would be happy with where we are at.

Regardless of what Jarmo says the cupboards are pretty bare after the trade deadline in Cleveland. Not like help is on it's way from there, and with most of the high draft picks traded no help there either. If Duchene and Panarin leave then good luck finding a guy who wants to come up without mortgaging franchise (and most importantly if you do mortgage the franchise on a player, buy the insurance this time).

Vegas made us look like dolts. Traded them a guy who scored 40 goals because we had a bad contract we couldn't get rid of and a 1st round pick. They subsequently beat in one season what we had done in 19.

So yes I'd like a change. Find some genius 30 year old for all I care. We've been thru 3 different regimes and would have to take off my shoes to count the number of head coaches we've been thru. Nothing against Jarmo (and JD) but if the best you can do is get into the playoffs, well it's not enough.

 

[DJA]

I wouldn’t see too many young hotshot GMs chomping at the bit to take this job seeing we have a depleted prospect pool and virtually no draft picks to work with for a couple years. It would not be a job where you could come in and immediately have success. It would be a tough rebuild where likely the NEXT guy would get the credit.

 

[Monk]

Is it just that the NHL is going the way of the NBA more and more, in that there are a few "top dogs" and then everyone else fighting for the scraps? It's obviously not as bad as the NBA now, and there will always be more parity in the NHL (more players play), but is that's what's happening?

While I always think anyone could win the cup in any given year, it does seem to be more and more the case that there are just a few tip-top teams that everyone thinks will make a push for the cup. Maybe it's just the TBL powerhouse making me feel that way right now.

It's also interesting to think about where those top teams seem to often be in the US - is there a correlation to being one of those top teams and being a very desirable place to live?

 

[Mayor Bee]

I remember when you had cogent arguments in favor of Howson, rather than just "he's my guy, and this guy isn't my guy, therefore Howson was better and this guy sucks."

I mean, seriously. You're now pushing the same "same old jackets" nonsense folks used to use all the time to insist that Howson was no better than Doug MacLean. You can and have done a hell of a lot better than this kind of drivel.

So it leads one to question the point of making the post.

To satisfy my own curiosity, I decided to search for the last time I said the word "Howson" on these boards. The answer was September 13 of last year, right here Sergei Bobrovsky - Top Cop

Which is fine. If you want to think that I'm the hockey equal of a spurned and spiteful divorcee who can't focus on their own life when they can cackle with glee every time that something bad happens to their ex, I can't stop you. If you want to ascribe an ulterior motive that wasn't there to my post, I can't stop you either. Someone asked why people are mad at the front office, and I answered by compiling pretty much everything that's been openly wondered for the last two weeks around here and putting it into a post.

It is indisputable that what we have seen in the last two weeks is some of the most aggressive trade deadline moves in recent history, it is indisputable that this team is 1-3 since the deadline and has been completely non-competitive in those three losses that were embarrassing to watch, it is indisputable that this team has gone from in a playoff position to out of it, and it is indisputable that there is at least a decent possibility that the worst-case scenario of losing all those UFAs and having just two draft picks to work with may come to pass. I also believe that the phrase "the proof of the pudding is in the eating" applies, and just because a team looks better on paper doesn't mean that it is.

Are people angry at the front office, or just overreacting and lashing out as some pretty hardcore anxiety over the future of the team? I don't know, and I really don't care. A deep run in the playoffs will salve a lot of wounds, and a first-round loss or a complete miss will lay them all bare.

 

[Monk]

Are people angry at the front office, or just overreacting and lashing out as some pretty hardcore anxiety over the future of the team? I don't know, and I really don't care. A deep run in the playoffs will salve a lot of wounds, and a first-round loss or a complete miss will lay them all bare.

This is the crux of it. BUT, either outcome also doesn't really indicate whether Jarmo did the right thing or not. There will certainly be consequences regardless of outcome, as well.

 

[Long Live Lyle]

Is it just that the NHL is going the way of the NBA more and more, in that there are a few "top dogs" and then everyone else fighting for the scraps? It's obviously not as bad as the NBA now, and there will always be more parity in the NHL (more players play), but is that's what's happening?

While I always think anyone could win the cup in any given year, it does seem to be more and more the case that there are just a few tip-top teams that everyone thinks will make a push for the cup. Maybe it's just the TBL powerhouse making me feel that way right now.

It's also interesting to think about where those top teams seem to often be in the US - is there a correlation to being one of those top teams and being a very desirable place to live?

First, I like that there’s some consistency at the top. I wouldn’t like something like the NBA, but I also don’t want tons of parity. The best teams should remain at the top for multiple years. Teams should be rewarded for shrewd moves. If there’s too much randomness/parity, than what’s the point? We might as well watch guys in our teams’s jerseys roll dice.

I’m not sure I agree with your desirableness thought. Is Pittsburgh much more desirable than Cbus? Florida, Chicago, NYR, Philly, LA, Anaheim, Arizona... all probably not gonna make the playoffs. Calgary leads the west. Winnipeg is third.

 

[majormajor]

Regardless of what Jarmo says the cupboards are pretty bare after the trade deadline in Cleveland. Not like help is on it's way from there, and with most of the high draft picks traded no help there either.

In Cleveland it's bare, yes. Maybe Stenlund will be ready soon, and then there's Carlsson and some longer term projects. The top 5 or 6 prospects are in other leagues. Don't forget that Gavrikov and Merzlikins are expected to come over - if it is what the scouts say, a top 4 D and a starting goaltender, then we're already adding more talent than most clubs add per year.

Vegas made us look like dolts. Traded them a guy who scored 40 goals because we had a bad contract we couldn't get rid of and a 1st round pick.

Those were two separately worked out deals that were lumped together. The price for moving Clarkson was a 1st rounder, and that alone.

It's funny that it's never come up here, that pick (#24 OA) was traded to the Jets, who took Kristian Vesalainen. He's a pretty good prospect.

Nothing against Jarmo (and JD) but if the best you can do is get into the playoffs, well it's not enough.

I don't think you can fire your way to success. If you have a better person for the job, then sure. I don't think we've got that candidate. It seems a little unfair to Jarmo that we're blaming him for the club going out in the first round the last two years, when we've been immediately pitted against the eventual cup winner. The team has more regular season wins than all but a few teams in that span, it's much more likely they could have won a series by now if they weren't in the top division (it looks much easier this year).

 

[majormajor]

It's also interesting to think about where those top teams seem to often be in the US - is there a correlation to being one of those top teams and being a very desirable place to live?

And this is why Kevin Cheveldayoff should get more credit. He somehow built a powerhouse in Winnipeg, which has consistently been one of the top few cities on "do not trade" lists.

I bristle at any idea that Canada would be a less desirable place to live - for most people the quality of life is better. But if you are a millionaire, Canada has higher taxes on millionaires. And if your employment is in the colder months of the year, well Canada is also very cold and dark through most of the hockey season. Montreal, Toronto, and Vancouver are world class cities, but the rest are small by the standards of U.S. NHL cities. Winnipeg is about half the size of Columbus, with worse weather, and higher taxes on millionaires. I imagine I'd rather play hockey there because it's a hockey mad place, and that's exciting, but a lot of people have other ideas.

There might be a correlation that you mention, but it won't be a very strong one. A lot of players would like to live in LA or NY, and those teams are not good. Nashville is a popular choice right now but it has struggled to keep it's players in the past.

 

[Ice9]

I'm fine with acquiring the double Ds but the McQuaid deal...not fireable and I understand the intent and the need but...

 

[majormajor]

I'm the hockey equal of a spurned and spiteful divorcee

Yes, yes you are.

I answered by compiling pretty much everything that's been openly wondered for the last two weeks around here and putting it into a post.

Yes, myths, conjecture, and paranoia, all gathered in one post. What a great service.

it is indisputable that this team is 1-3 since the deadline and has been completely non-competitive in those three losses that were embarrassing to watch

It has been disputed that the team was "completely non-competitive" in those three losses. They played the right way Sunday night.

 

[Monk]

First, I like that there’s some consistency at the top. I wouldn’t like something like the NBA, but I also don’t want tons of parity. The best teams should remain at the top for multiple years. Teams should be rewarded for shrewd moves. If there’s too much randomness/parity, than what’s the point? We might as well watch guys in our teams’s jerseys roll dice.

I’m not sure I agree with your desirableness thought. Is Pittsburgh much more desirable than Cbus? Florida, Chicago, NYR, Philly, LA, Anaheim, Arizona... all probably not gonna make the playoffs. Calgary leads the west. Winnipeg is third.

And this is why Kevin Cheveldayoff should get more credit. He somehow built a powerhouse in Winnipeg, which has consistently been one of the top few cities on "do not trade" lists.

I bristle at any idea that Canada would be a less desirable place to live - for most people the quality of life is better. But if you are a millionaire, Canada has higher taxes on millionaires. And if your employment is in the colder months of the year, well Canada is also very cold and dark through most of the hockey season. Montreal, Toronto, and Vancouver are world class cities, but the rest are small by the standards of U.S. NHL cities. Winnipeg is about half the size of Columbus, with worse weather, and higher taxes on millionaires. I imagine I'd rather play hockey there because it's a hockey mad place, and that's exciting, but a lot of people have other ideas.

There might be a correlation that you mention, but it won't be a very strong one. A lot of players would like to live in LA or NY, and those teams are not good. Nashville is a popular choice right now but it has struggled to keep it's players in the past.

You guys are both right, there are a lot more counterexamples to the correlation thing than I realized this morning. Somehow totally forgot about Pittsburgh, for instance.

 

[CarolinaBlueJacket]

A little early to throw Jarmo under the bus, but if they don't make the playoffs or lose in Round 1 and do not sign 2 or 3 of their UFAs then I will drive the bus while you guys throw him under it.