Agreed mostly, hence why I’m not on the Fire Torts bandwagon, but the lack of moves by Jarmo and a goaltending gamble are questionable
The Jarmo Thread
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- Dec 31, 2017
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Yeah, the lack of moves sucks. As far as goaltending goes, they know what they have with Joonas. Hopefully Elvis is just getting a good dose of reality and he ends up turning it around. Joonas will probably have a not so good stretch and Elvis will get more time. Also, VV is really looking good in the AHL, currently tied for 2nd in GAA, so maybe the answer at goalie isn't in the NHL. Of course, it is still too early to tell.
Ice9
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Is it possible that VV is the big winner as he's getting a good amount of time playing and learning the North American game? Elvis needs minutes that he isn't getting.
Double-Shift Lasse
Just post better
My two cents. The thing that plagues this team is the same thing that's always plagued us and that's the inability to identify, draft, and develop top line players. No team bats 1.000, but for a team that overly relies on the draft to acquire talent, we aren't anywhere near being where we should be and it's reflected in our history.
Hindsight is always 20/20, but I supported the moves made by Jarmo last season. This franchise had waited long enough for a chance to make a deep playoff run and I think Jarmo felt this was going to be our best chance because he knew three of our best players were moving on.
I also don't hold Jarmo responsible for not adding offense during the summer. Getting a dynamic scorer is almost impossible from another team. We had no draft picks to barter with nor would any of our veterans bring any value. The players who would have brought quality back were the players we were trying to build around.
Hindsight is always 20/20, but I supported the moves made by Jarmo last season. This franchise had waited long enough for a chance to make a deep playoff run and I think Jarmo felt this was going to be our best chance because he knew three of our best players were moving on.
I also don't hold Jarmo responsible for not adding offense during the summer. Getting a dynamic scorer is almost impossible from another team. We had no draft picks to barter with nor would any of our veterans bring any value. The players who would have brought quality back were the players we were trying to build around.
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CBJWerenski8
Rest in Peace Johnny
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Cowumbus
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Trading Z is what it would take to get a forward with exceptional playmaking/creativity. I wish we could trade ZW for Point but TBL would say no.
Werenski is the only one who can get a young top 6 forward straight up, the other ones will have to be a package
CBJWerenski8
Rest in Peace Johnny
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Or, we could keep Z, and use our high draft pick (which will be unquestionably top 10) on a young top 6 forward with exceptional playmaking/creativity. Thus having the best of both worlds.
I’m actually on board with this. Unless we are lucky to get a top 3 pick we should probably trade it in a package for an established young forward rather than hoping for the pick to blossom eventually
Again I've not looked into prospects for next years draft but unless you get 1 OA its more likely the following year that the kid is ready to play on top line. Obviously exceptions but I wouldn't plan on fixing the 2020-21 Jackets in the next draft.
Cowumbus
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We could have a PROVEN elite forward by trading Werenski. I would keep ZW if we pick top 3 otherwise.. bye Zach
- Dec 31, 2017
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I am just curious, but wouldn't Werenski's two shoulder injuries make people balk as to giving up top talent. He is still a good player but his shoulder might be a problem because of time missed. I know this injury wasn't as bad as the first time but I would think it might factor in what you get in return.
CBJWerenski8
Rest in Peace Johnny
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most fan bases don’t follow a team with a group of forwards who couldn’t score in a brothel....we’re desperate
Long Live Lyle
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Exactly. It’s due to our circumstances. Nobody’s saying they’d trade Z for a 1st round pick or a 2nd-liner. But a good, relatively young 1st line player? It has to be considered.
We have Jones, Murray, Gavrikov, Savard, Kukan, Nutivaara, Peeke, Harrington... That’s 8 top-6 D (if you don’t want to count Harry, it’s still 7), arguably 6 top-4 D (and Peeke has a chance to get there eventually) WITHOUT Werenski. Meanwhile, on offense...
CBJWerenski8
Rest in Peace Johnny
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making moves out of desperation always seems like a good plan
CBJWerenski8
Rest in Peace Johnny
- Jun 13, 2009
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Long Live Lyle
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As I said, I’m not trading Z for a 2nd-liner. And probably not a lower 1st-liner, either. At least a top-70 F in this league, and he can’t be old. For all we know, maybe no team is willing to give up a 1st-liner for him (or one that’s not younger than 28 or something). The marginal (marginal meaning “delta”, not “small”) loss of Z offensively on the back end compared to a Jones or Kukan would likely be smaller than the marginal gain a legit 1st-liner would bring over what we currently have at forward.
Again, it’s possible this avenue has been explored and there’s nothing out there. Fine. There are certainly way worse things than to have Zach Werenski on your roster.
If Z is so good, we need to consider trading Jones for someone like Barkov. Instant game changer
CBJWerenski8
Rest in Peace Johnny
- Jun 13, 2009
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CBJWerenski8
Rest in Peace Johnny
- Jun 13, 2009
- 43,776
- 26,839
You're not wrong (about Jones) but that still doesn't mean we should trade Werenski. I know what type of forward people are wanting for him, and that's one near Panarin level or the potential to get there. The bottom line is, those players don't get moved, and neither do players like Werenski. Jones-Johansen deal was a complete anomaly. How many times has this happened since then of this magnitude? Sure, we've seen players dealing players from a position of strength in order to get better at a position of weakness, but nothing of that order.
Dean Kukan is a fine player. But I am getting the sense he is starting to get pretty overrated here, especially offensively. He's a fine player for his current role, a third pairing guy who can fill in around the lineup. Dean Kukan's offensive upside doesn't even scratch Werenski's floor. Very few defenseman around the league compare as well to Werenski offensively, and those that do are the very best in the NHL, including his partner Jones. Having two top blue liners is great.
Nashville had tons of defensemen, and you never saw them consider trading Weber (in his prime), Suter, or Josi even though they had an extreme need for scoring. They filled that need in over time.
We're not one piece away from contending. We're multiple (at least two?) high end offensive pieces away. We can get one with a top draft pick, and the other we can hope to come from within with either Texier, Bemstrom, Bjorkstrand, or at the very worst case scenario, another draft pick.
I don't want to say Z is untouchable, but unless we are getting some young super stud like Elias Petterssen it isn't something we should even think about IMO.
LazyCircuits
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Watching mainly highlights and rarely full games, I appreciate I my not be the best opinion in the room but here goes. I look at Torts and I see a man who has pretty much run his course. I know the roster is not strong and that he can't be blamed for that but he can be asked to develop (or coach as I believe it is called) young players. I have my doubts he is the man for that and it seems that the room is slightly tuning him out.
I would keep him until the end of the season to give Jarmo time to come up with a proper, well-thought-out, plan B and then make the change in the Summer.
I would keep him until the end of the season to give Jarmo time to come up with a proper, well-thought-out, plan B and then make the change in the Summer.
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