Salary Cap: The Impending Cap Ceiling Issue

[EspenK]

Are you serious about thinking that anyone would trade for these two? Do you really think that there is ANY market value for Boll. If there is, then please explain. I'd be very interested in hearing it. There are 3 options for him: 1) Buyout 2) Bury in the AHL 3) Ride out the final year.

Why would any team want Campbell? What value would he provide? He's a washed up sub par 4th liner. He'll cost $1.5 million next year. Every team could pick up a better free agent for less or already have a minor leaguer on their payroll who would be cheaper.

There's only $3.2 million between them for one more year. Buying them both out would cost a tad over $2 million. The CBJ will let these guys ride it out and bury them in the minors if they need the $900,000 in cap room which burying each would provide.

Buying them out saves 2 million in cap space next season and costs 1 in the following. But it saves a million in cash over the 2 years which would cover Anderson's (for example) salary next year. Also frees up 2 roster spaces. I think this is better than burying them.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

While I still expect us to be sellers at the deadline, the core isn't going to be moved (I don't think). I don't blame the FO for not moving veteran guys because I am not sure they can yet. Hartnell is probably the one guy we know for sure we can move. Boll, Campbell, Bourque (though I dont see the point of moving bourque - just hold on to him till he goes UFA and get the cap dump), Tyutin...all have contracts nobody wants with poor production. I think the best course is to just dump guys any way you can, but that may cost you money and im not sure this owner wants to do that after investing in the team the way he did this year with crap results.

Bourque is gone this summer so who cares. Clarkson....I don't see us being able to move him so we're probably stuck. Boll and Campbell are the real questions. Do you we want to move Campbell? Or just hang on to him another year and hope he does better. Boll I think will be shopped (hopefully).

We've been saying for years that Boll would be dumped, traded, not re-signed... and he's still here. And will be, IMO, for the final year of his current contract.

 

[JacketsDavid]

Buying them out saves 2 million in cap space next season and costs 1 in the following. But it saves a million in cash over the 2 years which would cover Anderson's (for example) salary next year. Also frees up 2 roster spaces. I think this is better than burying them.

But the CBJ have been reluctant to buy guys out - I agree on theory but not sure if the CBJ will spend the $$$.

The CBJ way is to trade Boll and his $1.7M one year deal for an equally worthless guy only costing $1.3M but over 2-3 years.

 

[EspenK]

We've been saying for years that Boll would be dumped, traded, not re-signed... and he's still here. And will be, IMO, for the final year of his current contract.

I hope you're not right but you probably are.

 

[DarkandStormy]

though I dont see the point of moving bourque - just hold on to him till he goes UFA and get the cap dump

Because a 7th-round pick is a better asset (if you can get it) than letting him just walk in the summer. He's not going to be here next year, regardless. Might as well try to get a late-round pick if you can. They'll certainly try, no guarantee any team budges on that.

 

[Cyclones Rock]

Buying them out saves 2 million in cap space next season and costs 1 in the following. But it saves a million in cash over the 2 years which would cover Anderson's (for example) salary next year. Also frees up 2 roster spaces. I think this is better than burying them.

I agree. However................

I think Boll has got a huge backer behind the scenes-perhaps the owner. He's been here forever and if they keep him around for loyalty reasons, it's not that big of a deal.

Ownership here doesn't like buyouts as we all know. Campbell could be looked at as an organizational depth player (in case of injuries) if he's buried in the AHL.

The real players in the cap issues are the core members. If the FO wants to really clear room, then a fire sale of Dubinsky or Foligno is probably in order.

 

[Cyclones Rock]

Because a 7th-round pick is a better asset (if you can get it) than letting him just walk in the summer. He's not going to be here next year, regardless. Might as well try to get a late-round pick if you can. They'll certainly try, no guarantee any team budges on that.

Why would any contending team want Rene Bourque on their roster? What does his bring to them?

He had a fluke playoff in 2013-14, but has been finished as a useful player other than that since he was with Calgary in 2011-4 years ago.

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=54761

He's got 30 games left as a CBJ and will probably never get a one way NHL deal ever again.

 

[Mayor Bee]

Why would any contending team want Rene Bourque on their roster? What does his bring to them?

He had a fluke playoff in 2013-14, but has been finished as a useful player other than that since he was with Calgary in 2011-4 years ago.

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=54761

He's got 30 games left as a CBJ and will probably never get a one way NHL deal ever again.

Someone is bound to get a forward injured between now and then and will need some type of depth replacement.

Bourque would cost a contending team roughly $800K for the remainder of the year, and if the cost is nothing but a conditional draft pick, it's a deal worth making.

 

[Viqsi]

Someone is bound to get a forward injured between now and then and will need some type of depth replacement.

Bourque would cost a contending team roughly $800K for the remainder of the year, and if the cost is nothing but a conditional draft pick, it's a deal worth making.

This, pretty much. I wouldn't hold my breath, but it's not impossible.

 

[DarkandStormy]

Why would any contending team want Rene Bourque on their roster? What does his bring to them?

He had a fluke playoff in 2013-14, but has been finished as a useful player other than that since he was with Calgary in 2011-4 years ago.

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=54761

He's got 30 games left as a CBJ and will probably never get a one way NHL deal ever again.

Maybe re-read the last sentence I posted? They will obviously try to move him for something (late-round pick) but worst case scenario is he plays out his contract and walks. I don't understand why people don't think the FO will at least ask teams.

 

[Cyclones Rock]

Someone is bound to get a forward injured between now and then and will need some type of depth replacement.

Bourque would cost a contending team roughly $800K for the remainder of the year, and if the cost is nothing but a conditional draft pick, it's a deal worth making.

I've watched enough of Bourque with Montreal and CBJ to reach the conclusion that he doesn't add anything to the equation. He tends to be lazy whenever he's not on 4th line minutes, his scoring touch has been gone for years and he's terrible defensively.

I would think that most teams have minor league personnel who are up and coming who would be much better additions than Bourque. If the CBJ were a playoff contender this season (allow for a dream for a moment) and Bourque were on a non contender and performing as he is now, would you rather trade to get him or take a flier on Zaar or Bjorkstrand in the post season? I know that I'd much rather take a chance on an unknown than a known which has amply demonstrated that it no longer has it.

 

[Mayor Bee]

I've watched enough of Bourque with Montreal and CBJ to reach the conclusion that he doesn't add anything to the equation. He tends to be lazy whenever he's not on 4th line minutes, his scoring touch has been gone for years and he's terrible defensively.

I would think that most teams have minor league personnel who are up and coming who would be much better additions than Bourque. If the CBJ were a playoff contender this season (allow for a dream for a moment) and Bourque were on a non contender and performing as he is now, would you rather trade to get him or take a flier on Zaar or Bjorkstrand in the post season? I know that I'd much rather take a chance on an unknown than a known which has amply demonstrated that it no longer has it.

In the NHL, no contending team going into the playoffs would put an AHLer in there if there's a chance to get someone with playoff experience.

Would I rather take a flier on Zaar or Bjorkstrand than someone like Bourque? Absolutely. Would 20 NHL GMs do the same? No chance. It's the ultimate game of covering your ass, and perception can become reality pretty quickly no matter how ridiculous it is.

I remember Roman Cechmanek getting blasted for costing the Flyers a playoff series, when the Flyers themselves scored a whopping two goals in five games. Cechmanek had a .936 save percentage and 1.85 GAA in the series, and he became the fall guy. And if a playoff team comes up short, no matter who may come up short, blame may well fall on the GM who played an AHLer over acquiring someone with playoff experience at the deadline.

 

[Viqsi]

At this point, I think I'm more amenable to a Tyutin trade or buyout than a Hartnell trade w/r/t handling cap issues.

Cap hit info for that latter option:

SEASON|SALARY|CAP HIT|BUYOUT|SAVINGS|BUYOUT CAP HIT
2016-17|$4,750,000|$4,500,000|$1,458,333|$3,291,667|$1,208,333
2017-18|$4,000,000|$4,500,000|$1,458,333|$2,541,667|$1,958,333
2018-19|$0|$0|$1,458,333|-$1,458,333|$1,458,333
2019-20|$0|$0|$1,458,333|-$1,458,333|$1,458,333

Surprisingly decent.

 

[EspenK]

At this point, I think I'm more amenable to a Tyutin trade or buyout than a Hartnell trade w/r/t handling cap issues.

Cap hit info for that latter option:

SEASON|SALARY|CAP HIT|BUYOUT|SAVINGS|BUYOUT CAP HIT
2016-17|$4,750,000|$4,500,000|$1,458,333|$3,291,667|$1,208,333
2017-18|$4,000,000|$4,500,000|$1,458,333|$2,541,667|$1,958,333
2018-19|$0|$0|$1,458,333|-$1,458,333|$1,458,333
2019-20|$0|$0|$1,458,333|-$1,458,333|$1,458,333

Surprisingly decent.

In an either or situation I tend to agree unless a Hartnell trade produced a really good return which I don't think happens at least in the short term. A pick or prospect could turn out great but neither will be of much help next year.

 

[Fro]

I agree on trading Tyutin...someone will take him...maybe with some retention, but better than buyout IMO...

I honestly think by the draft, they're both gone...

 

[Viqsi]

I agree on trading Tyutin...someone will take him...maybe with some retention, but better than buyout IMO...

I honestly think by the draft, they're both gone...

I dunno. If folks presume that we'd buy him out anyways, they may expect to be able to get him as a UFA for less AAV than they'd have if we retain an amount that makes sense to us. Keep in mind that cap hit for next year is the biggest factor.

 

[Viqsi]

...annnnnd the "try trading Tyutin" proposal, as expected, has gone down like a lead balloon.

Well, you can't win if you don't try.

 

[EspenK]

Dumping him will be tough. How about the Panthers taking him for a low draft pick or two. They have the cap room. Campbell's 7 mill comes off next year as well as Mitchell's $4.25 so maybe they could use the veteran presence for the playoffs and next year? I don't know but it makes about as much sense as anything.

 

[Viqsi]

Dumping him will be tough. How about the Panthers taking him for a low draft pick or two. They have the cap room. Campbell's 7 mill comes off next year as well as Mitchell's $4.25 so maybe they could use the veteran presence for the playoffs and next year? I don't know but it makes about as much sense as anything.

Guys they have to resign (or have resigned and are getting substantive raises) next year:
Barkov, Trocheck, probably Jagr if he's still up for it, possibly Howden and/or Pirri

Guys they have to resign the year after that:
Ekblad, Huberdeau, Kulikov, possibly Smith and/or Petrovic

I don't think we can casually dump him on Florida.

 

[EspenK]

Guys they have to resign (or have resigned and are getting substantive raises) next year:
Barkov, Trocheck, probably Jagr if he's still up for it, possibly Howden and/or Pirri

Guys they have to resign the year after that:
Ekblad, Huberdeau, Kulikov, possibly Smith and/or Petrovic

I don't think we can casually dump him on Florida.

Probably not but you never know.

 

[JohnnyJacket13]

Guys they have to resign (or have resigned and are getting substantive raises) next year:
Barkov, Trocheck, probably Jagr if he's still up for it, possibly Howden and/or Pirri

Guys they have to resign the year after that:
Ekblad, Huberdeau, Kulikov, possibly Smith and/or Petrovic

I don't think we can casually dump him on Florida.

They also have a few bigger/older contracts like Savard, Willie Mitchell, Brian Campbell, Shawn Thornton that come off the books in the next 1-2 years, plus Brad Boyes' buyout which will make way for their younger players which they need to resign. I don't think this will be an issue. Already for next season, they are projected to have 27 million in cap space before any of their signings. They can definitely afford taking on a contract like Hartnell or even Tyutin (please please please take Tyutin)

 

[Xoggz22]

At this point, I think I'm more amenable to a Tyutin trade or buyout than a Hartnell trade w/r/t handling cap issues.

Cap hit info for that latter option:

SEASON|SALARY|CAP HIT|BUYOUT|SAVINGS|BUYOUT CAP HIT
2016-17|$4,750,000|$4,500,000|$1,458,333|$3,291,667|$1,208,333
2017-18|$4,000,000|$4,500,000|$1,458,333|$2,541,667|$1,958,333
2018-19|$0|$0|$1,458,333|-$1,458,333|$1,458,333
2019-20|$0|$0|$1,458,333|-$1,458,333|$1,458,333

Surprisingly decent.

If we will be saddled with a cap hit, why not move him and retain 30-40% if that gets us a pick or prospect? That keeps the hit to two years rather than four and reduces the cash outlay as well.

 

[DarkandStormy]

What will Jarmo do with the Boll and Campbell contracts. That's $2.2 million in cap hits of guys who aren't NHL-level players anymore. Buyouts? Bury in Cleveland? Big picture cap-wise it doesn't matter but those are two roster spots better filled by guys like Chaput or Anderson.

 

[Viqsi]

If we will be saddled with a cap hit, why not move him and retain 30-40% if that gets us a pick or prospect? That keeps the hit to two years rather than four and reduces the cash outlay as well.

I'm not sure if that's a probable outcome, but that's the basis on which I started the thread mentioned earlier.

 

[major major]

Probably not but you never know.

No, i think we know. If they want a competent veteran D, they'll keep the ones they have.