Salary Cap: The Impending Cap Ceiling Issue

[blahblah]

If we don't either trade or buyout Tyutin tomorrow I will move solidly into the Jackets don't know how to manage the cap camp. Won't say Jarmo, he may not have final say but I don't see how you can go into July 1 with less than 4 million in cap (assuming Bjorkstrand and Anderson fill out the F's) to sign Jones and no roster spot for Werenski.

You need to wait until we get closer to camp before making that assertion. Let me lay this out for you, you don't know how to manage the cap when you end up losing someone of importance because of the cap (this is true most of the time) or you end up getting a cap penalty the next season because you went over.

You aren't bad at cap management because you flirt with it or go over during the offseason.

I really wish people around here would just chill and go crazy when something bad actually happens instead of getting their panties in a bunch before anything of significance happens. I remember all the worried people of Werenski and if he's sign an ELC with us. Frig just chill peeps.

 

[major major]

I understand that a buyout of Clarkson doesn't save much money or cap space but his presence on the roster blocks a guy that might actually get better or help the team win and his NMC, if he wont waive it, means he eats up a valuable protection space. They have to pay him whether they like it or not but they dont have to keep him on the team while they do it.

The strong possibility of LTIR is the one good reason I can think of not to buy-out Clarkson. If he's on LTIR the insurance covers the $ and we get a cap credit. If you buy him out you get neither of those and pay 14/15ths of the remaining $ and cap.

 

[major major]

If we don't either trade or buyout Tyutin tomorrow I will move solidly into the Jackets don't know how to manage the cap camp. Won't say Jarmo, he may not have final say but I don't see how you can go into July 1 with less than 4 million in cap (assuming Bjorkstrand and Anderson fill out the F's) to sign Jones and no roster spot for Werenski.

I would also throw sentimentality to the wind and buyout Boll also. Campbell wouldn't break my heart either but we may need him as our 4th line C the more I look at the roster.

There is no assurance a trade of any sort can be made especially considering the upcoming expansion draft and the restrictions caused by a tight cap. Buyouts provide certainty.

July 1st? We could be over the cap on September 1st! And there's no penalty. And the only restriction on a trade is that you can't go 10% (is that right?) over the cap in the offseason. So 10% is 7.3m. Add to that the $4 or $5m in space we have before signing Jones. Not a pressing issue.

 

[major major]

I'm not betting against a Goloubef trade. Heck, I wouldn't be surprised if JJ gets moved either. I was certain Tyutin is getting bought out, but as the days go by, I am starting to get skeptical. But if that happens, that's at least 3 names gone with potential for more (Trade Savard?). I don't think our defensive logjam will be an issue.
.

Do you have any idea how hard it is to find a second pair RHD who can do everything Savard can do? He's not that good, but he's also closer to irreplaceable than most of the other guys on the roster.

Of your listed guys, I would remove Harrington, Kukan, and add Nutivaara instead. I know I am not like everyone else here, but I don't see a future for Kukan here, especially this season.

I'd be a bit surprised if Kukan made it over that logjam of bodies, especially when there are so many other rookies joining the team. But he's got the breakout skills - and he could easily catch the eye of Torts, if he hasn't already. I don't know one way or the other if Nutivaara is ready to go but the one knock on Kukan is that he's too thin and can't handle the physicality - do you really expect the even thinner Nutivaara to come in and leapfrog him?

 

[CBJWerenski8]

Do you have any idea how hard it is to find a second pair RHD who can do everything Savard can do? He's not that good, but he's also closer to irreplaceable than most of the other guys on the roster.



I'd be a bit surprised if Kukan made it over that logjam of bodies, especially when there are so many other rookies joining the team. But he's got the breakout skills - and he could easily catch the eye of Torts, if he hasn't already. I don't know one way or the other if Nutivaara is ready to go but the one knock on Kukan is that he's too thin and can't handle the physicality - do you really expect the even thinner Nutivaara to come in and leapfrog him?

I'm not saying trade Savard, I'm saying its an option. We may not be able to keep him in an expansion draft anyway, especially if we don't buyout Tyutin.

I don't know, but we'll see. I have friends in Finland who are fans of Karpat and they think Nutivaraa is ready for the NHL. Granted, they could be biased because that's their favorite team, so we'll see. While I doubt he makes it, if he impresses then who knows.

 

[KallioWeHardlyKnewYe]

The strong possibility of LTIR is the one good reason I can think of not to buy-out Clarkson. If he's on LTIR the insurance covers the $ and we get a cap credit. If you buy him out you get neither of those and pay 14/15ths of the remaining $ and cap.

Apologies if this has been answered elsewhere, but is there any sense for the possible timing on this? Any deadline that LTIR claims need to be filed? Has the organization even confirmed they're doing this?

That sort of breathing room via a cap credit would be nice and I would think that with insurance picking up the tab for the money, that might ease the burden of potential buyouts (or resignings) on ownership.

 

[JacketsDavid]

The strong possibility of LTIR is the one good reason I can think of not to buy-out Clarkson. If he's on LTIR the insurance covers the $ and we get a cap credit. If you buy him out you get neither of those and pay 14/15ths of the remaining $ and cap.

Strong possibility or fans hoping on LTIR? I've still not seen anything indicating it's a possibility much less a strong possibility.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

Apologies if this has been answered elsewhere, but is there any sense for the possible timing on this? Any deadline that LTIR claims need to be filed? Has the organization even confirmed they're doing this?

That sort of breathing room via a cap credit would be nice and I would think that with insurance picking up the tab for the money, that might ease the burden of potential buyouts (or resignings) on ownership.

LTIR for Clarkson currently enjoys the same level of potentiality that a Tyutin buyout does, if you based potentiality solely on what the organization has indicated it will do regarding the player.

 

[CalBuckeyeRob]

The strong possibility of LTIR is the one good reason I can think of not to buy-out Clarkson. If he's on LTIR the insurance covers the $ and we get a cap credit. If you buy him out you get neither of those and pay 14/15ths of the remaining $ and cap.

Can the team just put him on LTIR if he is capable of playing, even if he is awful while doing it? Since it is a back issue maybe they can just have him carry all the equipment before and after practice until he has to retire.

 

[JacketsDavid]

Can the team just put him on LTIR if he is capable of playing, even if he is awful while doing it? Since it is a back issue maybe they can just have him carry all the equipment before and after practice until he has to retire.

Pretty sure a doctor has to sign off on it, and I would assume the player as well?

 

[EspenK]

I wish I was as confident as others that the trade genie will grant us two or three wishes to get cap compliant. It just isn't as easy as some would believe imo.

The LTIR for Clarkson could work but that is tricky too. I forget the details but you have to play around with your opening day roster in order to get max benefit from it. I don't know if we have the roster flexibility to make it work.

 

[Johnny Jacket]

I wish I was as confident as others that the trade genie will grant us two or three wishes to get cap compliant. It just isn't as easy as some would believe imo.

The LTIR for Clarkson could work but that is tricky too. I forget the details but you have to play around with your opening day roster in order to get max benefit from it. I don't know if we have the roster flexibility to make it work.

The first wish should be to have unlimited wishes.

 

[Crede777]

I'm not saying trade Savard, I'm saying its an option. We may not be able to keep him in an expansion draft anyway, especially if we don't buyout Tyutin.

I don't know, but we'll see. I have friends in Finland who are fans of Karpat and they think Nutivaraa is ready for the NHL. Granted, they could be biased because that's their favorite team, so we'll see. While I doubt he makes it, if he impresses then who knows.

I think we subtract from the left side (Johnson, Tyutin) before the right side.

The first wish should be to have unlimited wishes.

The first wish is to set him free. Then the genie will forever be your friend and grant all of your wishes. See: Aladdin the TV series.

 

[Viqsi]

I couldn't even imagine what some of our fans would do if they had to deal with Chicago's cap situation every offseason. They have real issues they need to address and they constantly end up losing valuable players in the process.

Stanley Cup parades tend to have a calming effect.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

Rambling, mostly related thoughts:

My assumption is that they're trying to get Jones done before they do any of the other things, in the interest of addressing the cap from a position where you have a complete picture, instead of doing things that may not have needed to be done just because you weren't sure.

I don't know that it's going to be possible, however. I'd expect Jones' team isn't looking to do the FO any favors in this area, nor should it. And with the buyout window so short, and the trade market impacted by pending expansion (in addition to all of the other things that typically impact it), and the unpredictable nature of LTIR, something is going to have to give soon I think. I realize "they have all summer to make the cap work." I also realize the FO isn't going to spell out its summer in advance to the media/fans. But...

Maybe the FO is waiting to see if there are going to be offer sheets on Jones. There are ways of putting all of this off as long as possible. I don't necessarily question that strategy. But I do understand the concern of those who recognize things probably can't stay as they are.

The team may not want to buy out Tyutin (but it should), or trade Hartnell (and it shouldn't, especially if it has to retain), or whatever. But I'd think that something's going to have to happen sooner than later.

 

[Forepar]

Rambling, mostly related thoughts:

My assumption is that they're trying to get Jones done before they do any of the other things, in the interest of addressing the cap from a position where you have a complete picture, instead of doing things that may not have needed to be done just because you weren't sure.

I don't know that it's going to be possible, however. I'd expect Jones' team isn't looking to do the FO any favors in this area, nor should it. And with the buyout window so short, and the trade market impacted by pending expansion (in addition to all of the other things that typically impact it), and the unpredictable nature of LTIR, something is going to have to give soon I think. I realize "they have all summer to make the cap work." I also realize the FO isn't going to spell out its summer in advance to the media/fans. But...

Maybe the FO is waiting to see if there are going to be offer sheets on Jones. There are ways of putting all of this off as long as possible. I don't necessarily question that strategy. But I do understand the concern of those who recognize things probably can't stay as they are.

The team may not want to buy out Tyutin (but it should), or trade Hartnell (and it shouldn't, especially if it has to retain), or whatever. But I'd think that something's going to have to happen sooner than later.

You were right! Jones for $5.4M for 6 years happened sooner!

Provides some clarity on what MUST happen to address Tyutin, Hartnell, Boll, etc...vs. what COULD happen even if it doesn't HAVE to happen this summer.

 

[major major]

Can the team just put him on LTIR if he is capable of playing, even if he is awful while doing it? Since it is a back issue maybe they can just have him carry all the equipment before and after practice until he has to retire.

His injury is preventing him from playing at an NHL level. I don't know if there are more criteria beyond that. Possibly.

 

[CBJSlash]

While we've been hammered for being too close to the cap. I really don't think it has to do with overspending. Dubinsky could have been 500K less, Foligno 500K - 1 million less, Bob too...

The main issue is the NUMBER of players we have on contracts -- not the value.

We have 7 forwards that make 2.9 or higher. Clarkson of course is bad, but if you look at most teams in the league, they don't have near this many forwards 3.0 and up. Add to that 5 defensemen.

So it has more to do with how teams address depth on their roster. A combo on entry level contracts and bargain free agency signings.

Our bottom d-pair needs to be less than 2 million combined.

Our least paid 6 forwards need to be less than 8 million combined.

We are nowhere close.

We'll get there with these young players coming in, but the issue is the contracts we have with term on them with players with diminished value.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

You were right! Jones for $5.4M for 6 years happened sooner!

Provides some clarity on what MUST happen to address Tyutin, Hartnell, Boll, etc...vs. what COULD happen even if it doesn't HAVE to happen this summer.

Exactly what I was saying in the first part of my post. Signing Jones first means they know exactly the task in front of them from a cap compliance standpoint.

 

[DarkandStormy]

Our bottom d-pair needs to be less than 2 million combined.

"Hi!" - Dalton Prout

 

[CBJSlash]

"Hi!" - Dalton Prout

With Murray - Jones taking 25 - 28 minutes. JJ-Savard 20-22. We'd only need 8-12 minutes from him. We could do worse.

 

[DarkandStormy]

With Murray - Jones taking 25 - 28 minutes. JJ-Savard 20-22. We'd only need 8-12 minutes from him. We could do worse.

It was in reference to what you said we should be spending on the bottom 2 D pair.

 

[blahblah]

Do you have any idea how hard it is to find a second pair RHD who can do everything Savard can do? He's not that good, but he's also closer to irreplaceable than most of the other guys on the roster.

rofl...

Umm yeah.

 

[blahblah]

Stanley Cup parades tend to have a calming effect.

Meh, they had their own drama over Saad.

 

[CalBuckeyeRob]

His injury is preventing him from playing at an NHL level. I don't know if there are more criteria beyond that. Possibly.

Great philosophical question: if a guy does nothing when healthy how do you show the injury is causing a different result?