The Hockey Hall of Fame needs more Non-North American players

[GRob83]

There is an absolutely huge discrepancy in representation at the Hockey Hall of Fame with the majority of players being born or raised in Canada. It makes me wonder if there should be a separate entity of the Hall of Fame that celebrates the careers of players not born and raised in North America and induct 10 or so players that haven't been elected yet to balance things out a bit more. I was born in 83 but I feel like Alex Mogilny, Peter Bondra, Sergei Gonchar, Tomas Vokoun, Pavol Demitra, Jere Lehtinen, Arturs Irbe, Ziggy Palffy and of course some others are absolutely among the best players ever from their respective countries. Canada seems over represented while other countries lack of inductees and in some cases no inductees at all appears to be an oversight.

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[ResilientBeast]

There is an absolutely huge discrepancy in representation at the Hockey Hall of Fame with the majority of players being born or raised in Canada. It makes me wonder if there should be a separate entity of the Hall of Fame that celebrates the careers of players not born and raised in North America and induct 10 or so players that haven't been elected yet to balance things out a bit more. I was born in 83 but I feel like Alex Mogilny, Peter Bondra, Sergei Gonchar, Tomas Vokoun, Pavol Demitra, Jere Lehtinen, Arturs Irbe and of course some others are absolutely among the best players ever from their respective countries. Canada seems over represented while other countries lack of inductees and in some cases no inductees at all appears to be an oversight.

I agree that they need to recognize more international players (mostly soviets), and I disagree that Bondra, Vokoun, Irbe (lol) & Demitra belong in the hall of fame

Gonchar is borderline to me, Mogilny is widely discussed as an omission and it's surprising that they haven't inducted Lehtinen

 

[GRob83]

I agree that they need to recognize more international players (mostly soviets), and I disagree that Bondra, Vokoun, Irbe (lol) & Demitra belong in the hall of fame

Gonchar is borderline to me, Mogilny is widely discussed as an omission and it's surprising that they haven't inducted Lehtinen

I disagree on Bondra. There are only (10) 500+ Goal scorers not in the Hall of Fame. Ovechkin, Crosby, Stamkos, Jagr and Marleau are not eligible yet. They are all 1st Ballot HOF'ers except for Marleau who will get in because of the games played record. Bondra is 13th all time in era adjusted goals per game (tied with Selanne and Beliveau).

 

[BigBadBruins7708]

I disagree on Bondra. There are only (10) 500+ Goal scorers not in the Hall of Fame. Ovechkin, Crosby, Stamkos, Jagr and Marleau are not eligible yet. They are all 1st Ballot HOF'ers except for Marleau who will get in because of the games played record. Bondra is 13th all time in era adjusted goals per game (tied with Selanne and Beliveau).

Bondra is also a 1 trick pony. No AS-1 or AS-2 nods and never Top 10 in points or PPG

 

[MXD]

There is an absolutely huge discrepancy in representation at the Hockey Hall of Fame with the majority of players being born or raised in Canada. It makes me wonder if there should be a separate entity of the Hall of Fame that celebrates the careers of players not born and raised in North America and induct 10 or so players that haven't been elected yet to balance things out a bit more. I was born in 83 but I feel like Alex Mogilny, Peter Bondra, Sergei Gonchar, Tomas Vokoun, Pavol Demitra, Jere Lehtinen, Arturs Irbe, Ziggy Palffy and of course some others are absolutely among the best players ever from their respective countries. Canada seems over represented while other countries lack of inductees and in some cases no inductees at all appears to be an oversight.

None of these guys are absolute "musts" for the Hall of Fame, all of them would be lower quartiles, and three of these would be the weakest post-expansion HHOFer. Miikka Kiprusoff and Pekka Rinne would also be MUCH better choices if you wanted to raise European goalie candidates.

 

[Sturminator]

I disagree on Bondra. There are only (10) 500+ Goal scorers not in the Hall of Fame. Ovechkin, Crosby, Stamkos, Jagr and Marleau are not eligible yet. They are all 1st Ballot HOF'ers except for Marleau who will get in because of the games played record. Bondra is 13th all time in era adjusted goals per game (tied with Selanne and Beliveau).

If Mike Gartner is in the Hall, Bondra at least has some kind of argument, though I agree with others he is not a must.

The Europeans who should really be a must are Mikhailov, Petrov, Maltsev, Vasiliev and Martinec...with Suchy, Holecek, Krutov, Kasatonov, Hlinka, Yakushev, and some others deserving a long look.

 

[BigBadBruins7708]

If Mike Gartner is in the Hall, Bondra at least has some kind of argument, though I agree with others he is not a must.

The Europeans who should really be a must are Mikhailov, Petrov, Maltsev, Vasiliev and Martinec...with Suchy, Holecek, Krutov, Kasatonov, Hlinka, Yakushev, and some others deserving a long look.

I mean, yeah Gartner and Bondra are pretty much the same guy. But I can see why Gartner got in, its a lot harder to ignore 708 goals than 503

 

[rmartin65]

I’ll agree with everyone else- you’ve got the right idea, but the wrong examples.

 

[jigglysquishy]

There's like a half dozen Soviets who need to be in. Holocek too.

 

[VMBM]

The Europeans who should really be a must are Mikhailov, Petrov, Maltsev, Vasiliev and Martinec...with Suchy, Holecek, Krutov, Kasatonov, Hlinka, Yakushev, and some others deserving a long look.

Big Yak is already in.

 

[GRob83]

Bondra is also a 1 trick pony. No AS-1 or AS-2 nods and never Top 10 in points or PPG

If you're Peter Bondra on the Capitals from the mid 90's - mid 00's who are you passing the puck to? His job was to score goals at a time when scoring was at an all-time low and did so over 500 times. He was an excellent penalty killer as well and led the league in short handed goals from 94-04. As far as 1st and 2nd team AS nods go, he lost out to hall of famers every year at a stacked RW position (Jagr, Neely, Selanne, Bure, Hull, Iginla, St. Louis, Alfredsson) or guys that had great individual seasons but not the consistency (Guerin, Bertuzzi, Heatley). He should absolutely be in the conversation. I wonder if Brodeur, Hasek and Roy think he should be in the Hall of Fame.

 

[reckoning]

6 of the last 11 male hockey player inductees were European. Since 2014, 13 European players have been inducted compared to 14 Canadians. And that includes some players whose prime years were outside the NHL like Yakushev, Nedomansky and Makarov.

There used to be a bias against European players by the Hall, but that's in the past as they've clearly taken steps to correct that. There are many other past European players deserving on induction, but the Hall is on the right track.

The one I will say is that the European players who have been inducted are obvious choices. There hasn't been a European version of Andreychuk, Housley or Lowe get in yet. But the solution to that is to stop inducting weak candidates, not to start inducting weak European candidates like Irbe.

 

[ResilientBeast]

If you're Peter Bondra on the Capitals from the mid 90's - mid 00's who are you passing the puck to? His job was to score goals at a time when scoring was at an all-time low and did so over 500 times. He was an excellent penalty killer as well and led the league in short handed goals from 94-04. As far as 1st and 2nd team AS nods go, he lost out to hall of famers every year at a stacked RW position (Jagr, Neely, Selanne, Bure, Hull, Iginla, St. Louis, Alfredsson) or guys that had great individual seasons but not the consistency (Guerin, Bertuzzi, Heatley). He should absolutely be in the conversation. I wonder if Brodeur, Hasek and Roy think he should be in the Hall of Fame.

You're right he lost out to those guys. But despite winning the rocket richard twice he received no all-star votes at all. That's pretty telling

edit: I think I misunderstood

 

[Sturminator]

Big Yak is already in.

Ach...I knew I was gonna do some shit like that just firing off the top of my head. I also forgot to mention Firsov, who should probably be first on the list, but never would be,

We still navel-gaze 1972 like crazy in north america (not that Yak isn't deserving).

 

[JackSlater]

Nearly everyone in this section is going to agree, but it isn't really the players from the OP who need to get in just for the sake of some artificial balance. It's the great Soviets and Czechs from before the iron curtain fell, plus a few of the legendary players who likely were not among the best in the world but were hugely significant in their countries.

 

[MXD]

Ach...I knew I was gonna do some shit like that just firing off the top of my head. I also forgot to mention Firsov, who should probably be first on the list, but never would be,

Don't worry. We all do.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

The Hall of Fame doesn't have enough non-NHL Europeans. It actually is the worst of all worlds there - it has enough token non-NHL Europeans where it pretends to represent the full world of hockey, but it really doesn't.

It represents NHL Europeans just fine.

 

[VMBM]

I also forgot to mention Firsov, who should probably be first on the list, but never would be,

We still navel-gaze 1972 like crazy in north america (not that Yak isn't deserving).

Firsov, yes, absolutely, I failed to point that out myself. I hope I'm wrong, but I think that even players like Milan Novy and Vladimir Dzurilla are more likely to get in than Firsov (mostly because they gave impressive performances in the 1976 Canada Cup).

 

[GRob83]

You're right he lost out to those guys. But despite winning the rocket richard twice he received no all-star votes at all. That's pretty telling

edit: I think I misunderstood

You are entirely incorrect, in fact there were multiple years that he received votes for RW and LW in the same vote.

 

[ResilientBeast]

You are entirely incorrect, in fact there were multiple years that he received votes for RW and LW in the same vote.

Educate me then, because they're not on hockey reference

 

[ResilientBeast]

You are entirely incorrect, in fact there were multiple years that he received votes for RW and LW in the same vote.

To the bolded, he received a single vote for LW in those years. Very cool

From the sticky

94-95 - 4th in RW (on 6 ballots)
95-96 - 5th in RW (on 7 ballots)
96-97 - 5th in RW (on 3 ballots)
97-98 - 4th in RW (on 24 ballots)
97-98 - 10th in LW (on 1 ballot
98-99 - Nothing
99-00 - Nothing
00-01 - 6th in RW (on 7 ballots)
00-01 - 9th in LW (on 1 ballot)
01-02 - 14th in RW (on 1 ballot)

And you think this is a player worthy of the hall of fame?

 

[ResilientBeast]

It's crazy you can lead the league in goals but only get 6th in hart voting and be voted 4th at your own position

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

It's crazy you can lead the league in goals but only get 6th in hart voting and be voted 4th at your own position

The crazy part is that he wasn't top 10 in points any of those seasons. The writers (correctly) care more about points finishes than goals finishes.

That said, I'm not sure what Gartner really has on Bondra, other than playing in the 1980s, but the HHOF committee clearly cares about raw numbers.

 

[ResilientBeast]

The crazy part is that he wasn't top 10 in points any of those seasons. The writers (correctly) care more about points finishes than goals finishes.

That said, I'm not sure what Gartner really has on Bondra, other than playing in the 1980s, but the HHOF committee clearly cares about raw numbers.

I agree that the HHOF has low standards for some players, but if we use the Dick Duff line then a lot of players aren't in the HHOF that should be

 

[Michael Farkas]

Don't seek to compound problems...