Prospect Info: The First Annual Jaster Prospect Ranking List

[Frk It]

Can someone please help me understand the logic behind Finnie over NDN?

They are the same age. Do people think Finnie would make a SHL team right now and would be able to match NDN's production? I am not sold on that.

I also think if NDN was playing in the WHL the last 2 seasons he would out-produce what Finnie has done.

So those of you that feel Finnie is top 10 and NDN is not top 15.... I would like to hear the argument behind that.

 

[izlez]

Can someone please help me understand the logic behind Finnie over NDN?

They are the same age. Do people think Finnie would make a SHL team right now and would be able to match NDN's production? I am not sold on that.

I also think if NDN was playing in the WHL the last 2 seasons he would out-produce what Finnie has done.

So those of you that feel Finnie is top 10 and NDN is not top 15.... I would like to hear the argument behind that.

Personally, I don't have a real strong opinion on either of these guys, but you're not really making an argument here.

Do people think Finnie would make a SHL team right now and would be able to match NDN's production?
Yes.
I also think if NDN was playing in the WHL the last 2 seasons he would out-produce what Finnie has done.
I disagree.


He's a forward that has a grand total of 15 points in all competitions being drafted a year and a half ago (Finnie has 127). 10 points in the SHL. There is going to have to be some hard selling of his highlight videos to overcome those low numbers, and I don't know that I've seen many videos of him, if any at all.

 

[19 for president]

Can someone please help me understand the logic behind Finnie over NDN?

They are the same age. Do people think Finnie would make a SHL team right now and would be able to match NDN's production? I am not sold on that.

I also think if NDN was playing in the WHL the last 2 seasons he would out-produce what Finnie has done.

So those of you that feel Finnie is top 10 and NDN is not top 15.... I would like to hear the argument behind that.

From a purely (probably unfair) stat watching standard NDN has many points as AntJo does as a dman and NDN is barely top 200 for SEL scorers. Finnie is in the top 20 in the WHL in scoring. Also 68 vs 8 points = one guy gets a lot more highlights to watch than the other lol.

Now there is a obviously a big difference between the two leagues as the SEL is much lower scoring league and NDN is playing against men, but he also isn't putting up eye popping stats either. Pretty decent stats for a 19 year old in the SEL yes, but they aren't eye popping. He is tied for 19th in SEL under 22 scoring.

I feel like in general unless they are putting up ASP level numbers its hard to really judge players that project as skill players in the SEL unless you can watch them, whereas high scoring in the WHL is an easier predicator of potential NHL success in the future. Like Ray never put up mind blowing stats over there but has obviously become a great NHLer, you also see lots of top SEL scorers never make in the NHL.

I would also argue NDN is probably scoring role or bust whereas Finnie players a game that could probably better translate into a bottom 6 role if his skills don't continue to develop.

I also think people are probably just a little shy on putting him higher up because LDN hasn't amounted to much.

So to sum it up: objectively lower floor, more highlights, easier to compare to peers, WHL stats are easier to evaluate than SEL stats, LDN shyness.

 

[Frk It]

From a purely (probably unfair) stat watching standard NDN has many points as AntJo does as a dman and NDN is barely top 200 for SEL scorers. Finnie is in the top 20 in the WHL in scoring. Also 68 vs 8 points = one guy gets a lot more highlights to watch than the other lol.

Now there is a obviously a big difference between the two leagues as the SEL is much lower scoring league and NDN is playing against men, but he also isn't putting up eye popping stats either. Pretty decent stats for a 19 year old in the SEL yes, but they aren't eye popping. He is tied for 19th in SEL under 22 scoring.

I feel like in general unless they are putting up ASP level numbers its hard to really judge players that project as skill players in the SEL unless you can watch them, whereas high scoring in the WHL is an easier predicator of potential NHL success in the future. Like Ray never put up mind blowing stats over there but has obviously become a great NHLer, you also see lots of top SEL scorers never make in the NHL.

I would also argue NDN is probably scoring role or bust whereas Finnie players a game that could probably better translate into a bottom 6 role if his skills don't continue to develop.

I also think people are probably just a little shy on putting him higher up because LDN hasn't amounted to much.

So to sum it up: objectively lower floor, more highlights, easier to compare to peers, WHL stats are easier to evaluate than SEL stats, LDN shyness.

Ok well NDN also only has a few points less than MBN who people have top 5 and they are only 6 months apart.

If you want to see what NDN does at the Junior level look what he did in his draft season (not his +2 like Finnie).

NDN was also selected to play for Sweden at the Hlinka and U18s, which is not easy to do.

 

[LongTimeDRWF]

Can someone please help me understand the logic behind Finnie over NDN?

They are the same age. Do people think Finnie would make a SHL team right now and would be able to match NDN's production? I am not sold on that.

I also think if NDN was playing in the WHL the last 2 seasons he would out-produce what Finnie has done.

So those of you that feel Finnie is top 10 and NDN is not top 15.... I would like to hear the argument behind that.

I am on the run today, but I had Finnie at 6 (same as at the start of the season) and Noah at 15 (same as the start of the season), mostly based on personal observation bias ad a few other tidbits.

I watched Finnie (and Danielson and others) at several midget age tourneys in Alberta when I lived out there years ago (I moved back to Nova Scotia).

I used to coach midget AA (a real long time ago), I have literally seen hundreds of kids who have the skills and heart to be NHL players (I know a few of them too) but never, ever got the size needed to be an NHL player to match their skill level.

Finnie was one of those players I had tabbed as one who had all the tools, just never excepted him to get the size needed to support his playing style. The size versus skill versus heart curve for NHL players is a real thing.

When the wings signed him and Petes2424 said he was playing at 190ish pounds at 18, I instantly understood why they did, the kids is a f_____g hockey player, and now looks like he will easily get to the size to go with the game he plays in the NHL.

I suspect Finnie will end up in a middle 6 role for most of his prime playing days, but he plays a game that suits the playoffs.

If he ends up in the 215-225 pound range, he may even get into the top 6, he may end up lower, but he has the tools needed to play in the NHL up and down the lineup, which always forms a big part of my ranking for NHL readiness and longevity. I see him as a 2026/27 on the roster player.

I have a couple of buddies (mostly ex WHL players) out west who do go to a lot of games, they keep tabs on the wings prospects for me when they come to town. (Great way to keep in touch)

Another reason I would have him higher than Noah is the wings inked him to an ELC in March 2024 (his D+1 as a 7th round pick) last year, so I suspect they have him ranked higher internally too, and I am pretty sure they scout him more than I do.

Stats are not everything, but to be fair to NDN, the only time I have seen him was the training camp clips, if he gets over here next year, we can see where he is and re-access things then, but today's snap shot is my snap shot today, we'll look at it again at the end of the season.

 

[Frk It]

I am on the run today, but I had Finnie at 6 (same as at the start of the season) and Noah at 15 (same as the start of the season), mostly based on personal observation bias ad a few other tidbits.

I watched Finnie (and Danielson and others) at several midget age tourneys in Alberta when I lived out there years ago (I moved back to Nova Scotia).

I used to coach midget AA (a real long time ago), I have literally seen hundreds of kids who have the skills and heart to be NHL players (I know a few of them too) but never, ever got the size needed to be an NHL player to match their skill level.

Finnie was one of those players I had tabbed as one who had all the tools, just never excepted him to get the size needed to support his playing style. The size versus skill versus heart curve for NHL players is a real thing.

When the wings signed him and Petes2424 said he was playing at 190ish pounds at 18, I instantly understood why they did, the kids is a f_____g hockey player, and now looks like he will easily get to the size to go with the game he plays in the NHL.

I suspect Finnie will end up in a middle 6 role for most of his prime playing days, but he plays a game that suits the playoffs.

If he ends up in the 215-225 pound range, he may even get into the top 6, he may end up lower, but he has the tools needed to play in the NHL up and down the lineup, which always forms a big part of my ranking for NHL readiness and longevity. I see him as a 2026/27 on the roster player.

I have a couple of buddies (mostly ex WHL players) out west who do go to a lot of games, they keep tabs on the wings prospects for me when they come to town. (Great way to keep in touch)

Another reason I would have him higher than Noah is the wings inked him to an ELC in March 2024 (his D+1 as a 7th round pick) last year, so I suspect they have him ranked higher internally too, and I am pretty sure they scout him more than I do.

Stats are not everything, but to be fair to NDN, the only time I have seen him was the training camp clips, if he gets over here next year, we can see where he is and re-access things then, but today's snap shot is my snap shot today, we'll look at it again at the end of the season.

Really appreciate the detailed post explaining your stance

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

LDN is having himself a decent season. This is his last year before the Wings lose his rights though, so he kind of has to.

NDN is playing 4th line in Frolunda. He might be better off going to Allsvenskan like his brother to get a bigger role.


I’m starting to think we need a new “everything Swedish” thread.

 

[Frk It]

LDN is having himself a decent season. This is his last year before the Wings lose his rights though, so he kind of has to.

NDN is playing 4th line in Frolunda. He might be better off going to Allsvenskan like his brother to get a bigger role.


I’m starting to think we need a new “everything Swedish” thread.

I mean he’s doing quite a bit with those 10 minute a game or so he’s getting, again he is only a few points off what MBN has done this year. I think it’s better for him to play up a level, I think next year he takes a step forwards and people will have him ranked top 10 on here.

LDN has not been relevant as a prospect in a minute… I have no idea why anyone brings him up. Guys playing in the Allsvenskan in their +4 season are not NHL prospects.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

I mean he’s doing quite a bit with those 10 minute a game or so he’s getting, again he is only a few points off what MBN has done this year. I think it’s better for him to play up a level, I think next year he takes a step forwards and people will have him ranked top 10 on here.

LDN has not been relevant as a prospect in a minute… I have no idea why anyone brings him up. Guys playing in the Allsvenskan in their +4 season are not NHL prospects.

I think it’s still worth keeping an eye on LDN. Who knows? He might be decent depth for Grand Rapids for a year or two if the Wings sign him.

I think his season warrants that kind of chance. He’s not as far gone as Niederbach.

 

[Winged Wheel Willy]

----------------------------- Make the big club
1.ASP
2.Cossa
3.Danielson
4.Augustine
5.Buchelnikov
6.MBN
7.Mazur
8.Buium
9.Lombardi
------------------------------- Hopefuls
10.Plante
11.Kiiskinen
12.Finnie
------------------------------- Doubtfuls
13.Wallinder
14.Tuomisto
15.An. Johansson

 

[Frk It]

Has anyone tried saying Cross Hanas out loud 3x?

I feel like that would probably make Jaster appear.

Or we could try saying IPA's or Michigan hockey are overrated.

 

[Electric Eric]

I think Hanas has more potential than Mazur.

Go Navy, Beat Army.

MBH is right.

 

[Winger98]

Has anyone tried saying Cross Hanas out loud 3x?

I feel like that would probably make Jaster appear.

Or we could try saying IPA's or Michigan hockey are overrated.

wait, IPAs being overrated is controversial?

 

[Axel Sandy Pelikan]

Or maybe he's just busy.

I just moved back to MI and started a new job. I haven't had time to watch games, much less post. Besides, I can't comment if I'm not watching games. Kinda sucks because they're finally playing well.

It's a lot more convenient to watch games on the West Coast, the games are 3 hours earlier. I go to sleep before 10pm now....

This is likely. I'm very very limited with what I do on here now because this time of year is dogshit for work

 

[lilidk]

Finnie +2 rating is amazing compared to the rest of the team , doesn't playing lately

 

[19 for president]

Finnie +2 rating is amazing compared to the rest of the team , doesn't playing lately

That is actually kind of wild. I don't usually put a lot into +/- but I'm not sure how he is positive.... like I'm questioning if he is teleporting off the ice before every opposing goal.

 

[LongTimeDRWF]

Finnie +2 rating is amazing compared to the rest of the team , doesn't playing lately

He was hurt on Feb 7, upper body injury, out for a month was the forecast, so expect him back in the Blazers lineup around the NHL TDL break.

Loss of captain Finnie adds to Blazers’ injury woes

KAMLOOPS -- Kamloops Blazers' captain Emmitt Finnie was injured during a 9-2 loss to the Vancouver Giants last...

cfjctoday.com

 

[HisNoodliness]

Why in the world would you abandon hope with NDN?

Him and MBN are like 6 months apart and having pretty similar seasons in the SHL.

If anything, NDN is extremely underrated… imo.

Perhaps "abandon all hope" was a little melodramatic. I do only have him a couple of places beneath where you put him so it's fairly likely that we actually feel pretty similarly about him and I'm just more pessimistic with my wording.

To start with the MBN comparison, I'm honestly very discouraged by MBN's season. I am tempering that concern by projecting on tools and placing a lot of trust in our scouting staff that seems to nail our first rounders. I do think that MBN has the kind of game that you can project to perform better on North American ice, and at higher levels of competition. He shouldn't be relied on to generate offense, but instead to finish for others. A league with less time and space where he's less relied on should be beneficial to him. Even if he doesn't capitalize on his development to become a scoring line winger, he should be a useful crash and bang type.

I don't evaluate NDN's game that way. I think he's a guy that needs to slow the game down, consider plays carefully and execute a smart plan of attack that he's building on the fly. He uses space and his smarts to manipulate defenders, surprising them with a quick move or an unexpected pass to a teammate slipping into a soft spot. That's much harder at higher levels and on smaller ice. On top of that, I think his physical tools are generally lacking and so if he can't make it as an offensive contributor, he doesn't have a solid path to sticking in the NHL. It's the kind of profile that I typically like (moreso than MBN's type), but also one that I expect production from to be optimistic about.

I honestly have barely seen him play and so this is largely based on highlights, stat watching and tools projection. From what little I have seen, he doesn't look much better than when we drafted him- especially as far as pace is concerned. If you tell me that you think his skating has progressed a lot, he's being hampered by a shutdown role right now or something like that, it could definitely make me more optimistic about him/bump him to the tier above.

 

[Frk It]

Perhaps "abandon all hope" was a little melodramatic. I do only have him a couple of places beneath where you put him so it's fairly likely that we actually feel pretty similarly about him and I'm just more pessimistic with my wording.

To start with the MBN comparison, I'm honestly very discouraged by MBN's season. I am tempering that concern by projecting on tools and placing a lot of trust in our scouting staff that seems to nail our first rounders. I do think that MBN has the kind of game that you can project to perform better on North American ice, and at higher levels of competition. He shouldn't be relied on to generate offense, but instead to finish for others. A league with less time and space where he's less relied on should be beneficial to him. Even if he doesn't capitalize on his development to become a scoring line winger, he should be a useful crash and bang type.

I don't evaluate NDN's game that way. I think he's a guy that needs to slow the game down, consider plays carefully and execute a smart plan of attack that he's building on the fly. He uses space and his smarts to manipulate defenders, surprising them with a quick move or an unexpected pass to a teammate slipping into a soft spot. That's much harder at higher levels and on smaller ice. On top of that, I think his physical tools are generally lacking and so if he can't make it as an offensive contributor, he doesn't have a solid path to sticking in the NHL. It's the kind of profile that I typically like (moreso than MBN's type), but also one that I expect production from to be optimistic about.

I honestly have barely seen him play and so this is largely based on highlights, stat watching and tools projection. From what little I have seen, he doesn't look much better than when we drafted him- especially as far as pace is concerned. If you tell me that you think his skating has progressed a lot, he's being hampered by a shutdown role right now or something like that, it could definitely make me more optimistic about him/bump him to the tier above.

Yeah I am not the biggest MBN guy either, so I guess I get your point there.

I guess when it comes to NDN I just think he has a pretty good resume and I thought he deserved to be picked early 2nd or even late 1st in his draft year. I saw him pretty similarly to Berggren as a prospect. It sucks he lost development time to injury last year. But in his draft year I saw a player who has a good offensive skill set and good IQ who could become an impactful player if he rounds out his game and continues to make gains physically. I am not sure how much he has progressed in those regards, but the fact he is dressing regularly in the SHL is encouraging to me.

The thing about NDN is I think he has a chance to play higher in the lineup than a lot of our other forward prospects. Like I personally would not rank him in the range of guys like James, Savage, etc. because I think he just clearly has higher upside than those players. I also think he has higher upside than someone like Finnie, although that is where it starts getting closer.

I guess it depends on how you value floor vs ceiling when you make these lists. I don't think NDN has the best floor, but I do like the ceiling there quite a bit.

 

[HisNoodliness]

Yeah I am not the biggest MBN guy either, so I guess I get your point there.

I guess when it comes to NDN I just think he has a pretty good resume and I thought he deserved to be picked early 2nd or even late 1st in his draft year. I saw him pretty similarly to Berggren as a prospect. It sucks he lost development time to injury last year. But in his draft year I saw a player who has a good offensive skill set and good IQ who could become an impactful player if he rounds out his game and continues to make gains physically. I am not sure how much he has progressed in those regards, but the fact he is dressing regularly in the SHL is encouraging to me.

The thing about NDN is I think he has a chance to play higher in the lineup than a lot of our other forward prospects. Like I personally would not rank him in the range of guys like James, Savage, etc. because I think he just clearly has higher upside than those players. I also think he has higher upside than someone like Finnie, although that is where it starts getting closer.

I guess it depends on how you value floor vs ceiling when you make these lists. I don't think NDN has the best floor, but I do like the ceiling there quite a bit.

Honestly, I think we're nearly on the same page. Personally, I try to treat these mostly as an expected value thing. You multiply the value of an outcome by its odds and then add up all of those outcomes. I very heavily value top of the lineup players so I think I'm prone to rating guys like Berggren and NDN quite highly. To me, a second liner is at least five times more valuable than a third for example.

I think when deciding their odds of hitting a high potential scenario, the derivative matters a lot to me though. I'll take a prospect that's a good player but getting better over the great player that isn't. It's easy to keep getting better when you're progressing. It's hard to start getting better when you're stalled out. To me, NDN feels somewhat stalled out. I think his injury has a lot do with that, but the point remains. I also am pretty doubtful of James for this reason.

Whereas Finnie and Savage feel like they're progressing and so I feel a lot better about them hitting their potential. I don't think that their style of play is as conducive to playing up in the lineup, but the way they're progressing makes me feel like they're almost as likely to be top 6 players as NDN is. Maybe they can be like Tyler Bertuzzi, gritty effort guys with just enough skill to make it in the top 6.

My way of viewing things definitely leads to mistakes sometimes. With AlJo for example, I was definitely underrating him because we'd held him in the AHL without him getting obviously better for so long that he felt stalled out to me. With Kasper as another example, I probably underrated him because I viewed his most likely outcomes as being a third/fourth liner which I really don't value very highly. I might be making similar mistakes with Danielson and MBN. They both feel like they're progressing too slowly for my liking AND have skill-sets that are fairly likely to leave them in the bottom 6.

Compare that with someone like Buchelnikov. He seems obviously better every time I see him. He's progressing in exactly the ways that I want him to. And he has star potential. That kind of profile makes me throw caution to the wind and bet on him.

All of this is to just say, that's how I evaluate prospects and I think it's where the vast majority in the difference in our views stems from. I think if we sit down and did a "how do you rate NDN's forward acceleration out of ten? His top speed? Etc" that we're probably more or less in agreement

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

Yeah I am not the biggest MBN guy either, so I guess I get your point there.

I guess when it comes to NDN I just think he has a pretty good resume and I thought he deserved to be picked early 2nd or even late 1st in his draft year. I saw him pretty similarly to Berggren as a prospect. It sucks he lost development time to injury last year. But in his draft year I saw a player who has a good offensive skill set and good IQ who could become an impactful player if he rounds out his game and continues to make gains physically. I am not sure how much he has progressed in those regards, but the fact he is dressing regularly in the SHL is encouraging to me.

The thing about NDN is I think he has a chance to play higher in the lineup than a lot of our other forward prospects. Like I personally would not rank him in the range of guys like James, Savage, etc. because I think he just clearly has higher upside than those players. I also think he has higher upside than someone like Finnie, although that is where it starts getting closer.

I guess it depends on how you value floor vs ceiling when you make these lists. I don't think NDN has the best floor, but I do like the ceiling there quite a bit.

What does NDN do well today that is translatable to the NHL? If you want to play higher up an NHL lineup, you first need to make an NHL roster. I personally hold the view that we overestimate the likelihood of these semi-offensive, undersized players even making the NHL. In doing so, we tend to overrate them in comparison to their less sexy peers. The ones that do make it, tend to do so on account of work rate and speed, not technical skill.

I honestly have not seen enough of him to discuss him as a prospect today. Given that most posters judge development and production based simply upon counting stats (and changes thereto), I am not surprised he is out of sight, out of mind to many.

 

[Frk It]

What does NDN do well today that is translatable to the NHL? If you want to play higher up an NHL lineup, you first need to make an NHL roster. I personally hold the view that we overestimate the likelihood of these semi-offensive, undersized players even making the NHL. In doing so, we tend to overrate them in comparison to their less sexy peers. The ones that do make it, tend to do so on account of work rate and speed, not technical skill.

I have seen him listed at 6'0 and 185 lbs, so I am not thinking he is tiny or anything like that.

I guess my thinking is if we are willing to put Buchelnikov top 5 as a group, why are there a lot of lists where NDN is not top 15? I think you could make similar arguments for both players (with obviously Buchelnikov having the much stronger case).

I honestly have not seen enough of him to discuss him as a prospect today. Given that most posters judge development and production based simply upon counting stats (and changes thereto), I am not surprised he is out of sight, out of mind to many.

That is fair, I think he will be a riser on these Wing affiliated prospect lists by next year. We will see if that comes to fruition or not.

Honestly, I think we're nearly on the same page. Personally, I try to treat these mostly as an expected value thing. You multiply the value of an outcome by its odds and then add up all of those outcomes. I very heavily value top of the lineup players so I think I'm prone to rating guys like Berggren and NDN quite highly. To me, a second liner is at least five times more valuable than a third for example.

I think when deciding their odds of hitting a high potential scenario, the derivative matters a lot to me though. I'll take a prospect that's a good player but getting better over the great player that isn't. It's easy to keep getting better when you're progressing. It's hard to start getting better when you're stalled out. To me, NDN feels somewhat stalled out. I think his injury has a lot do with that, but the point remains. I also am pretty doubtful of James for this reason.

Whereas Finnie and Savage feel like they're progressing and so I feel a lot better about them hitting their potential. I don't think that their style of play is as conducive to playing up in the lineup, but the way they're progressing makes me feel like they're almost as likely to be top 6 players as NDN is. Maybe they can be like Tyler Bertuzzi, gritty effort guys with just enough skill to make it in the top 6.

My way of viewing things definitely leads to mistakes sometimes. With AlJo for example, I was definitely underrating him because we'd held him in the AHL without him getting obviously better for so long that he felt stalled out to me. With Kasper as another example, I probably underrated him because I viewed his most likely outcomes as being a third/fourth liner which I really don't value very highly. I might be making similar mistakes with Danielson and MBN. They both feel like they're progressing too slowly for my liking AND have skill-sets that are fairly likely to leave them in the bottom 6.

Compare that with someone like Buchelnikov. He seems obviously better every time I see him. He's progressing in exactly the ways that I want him to. And he has star potential. That kind of profile makes me throw caution to the wind and bet on him.

All of this is to just say, that's how I evaluate prospects and I think it's where the vast majority in the difference in our views stems from. I think if we sit down and did a "how do you rate NDN's forward acceleration out of ten? His top speed? Etc" that we're probably more or less in agreement

I guess it comes down to if you view this season as stalled out or not for him.

I think the fact he has played exclusively in the SHL is a good thing. I think 8 points in 30 games is pretty good with the lower minutes he has played. I am surprised he was not picked for the WJC team, I think that would have helped his stock on here for sure. He was selected for both the U18 and Hlinka teams though. I am pretty optimistic on him still and think he can go on a run to put him on back on the map.

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

I have seen him listed at 6'0 and 185 lbs, so I am not thinking he is tiny or anything like that.

I guess my thinking is if we are willing to put Buchelnikov top 5 as a group, why are there a lot of lists where NDN is not top 15? I think you could make similar arguments for both players (with obviously Buchelnikov having the much stronger case).

That is fair, I think he will be a riser on these Wing affiliated prospect lists by next year. We will see if that comes to fruition or not.


I guess it comes down to if you view this season as stalled out or not for him.

I think the fact he has played exclusively in the SHL is a good thing. I think 8 points in 30 games is pretty good with the lower minutes he has played. I am surprised he was not picked for the WJC team, I think that would have helped his stock on here for sure. He was selected for both the U18 and Hlinka teams though. I am pretty optimistic on him still and think he can go on a run to put him on back on the map.

Don't get me wrong, I still consider him a bona fide prospect (unlike his brother). If he had played last year I think everyone would have something to judge him against. Remind us again this time next year.

 

[Tatar Shots]

Yeah I am not the biggest MBN guy either, so I guess I get your point there.

I guess when it comes to NDN I just think he has a pretty good resume and I thought he deserved to be picked early 2nd or even late 1st in his draft year. I saw him pretty similarly to Berggren as a prospect. It sucks he lost development time to injury last year. But in his draft year I saw a player who has a good offensive skill set and good IQ who could become an impactful player if he rounds out his game and continues to make gains physically. I am not sure how much he has progressed in those regards, but the fact he is dressing regularly in the SHL is encouraging to me.

The thing about NDN is I think he has a chance to play higher in the lineup than a lot of our other forward prospects. Like I personally would not rank him in the range of guys like James, Savage, etc. because I think he just clearly has higher upside than those players. I also think he has higher upside than someone like Finnie, although that is where it starts getting closer.

I guess it depends on how you value floor vs ceiling when you make these lists. I don't think NDN has the best floor, but I do like the ceiling there quite a bit.

Next year is going to be huge for NDN. Really hurts losing the development time he has. A good offseason leading to a strong year would be great for him in terms of an NHL future.

 

[norrisnick]

What does NDN do well today that is translatable to the NHL? If you want to play higher up an NHL lineup, you first need to make an NHL roster. I personally hold the view that we overestimate the likelihood of these semi-offensive, undersized players even making the NHL. In doing so, we tend to overrate them in comparison to their less sexy peers. The ones that do make it, tend to do so on account of work rate and speed, not technical skill.

I honestly have not seen enough of him to discuss him as a prospect today. Given that most posters judge development and production based simply upon counting stats (and changes thereto), I am not surprised he is out of sight, out of mind to many.

Adequately move the puck. Too many big bodies that are completely useless with a stick in their hands in the NHL.

The overall quality of the sport would improve tremendously if the ability to move the puck and create were valued higher than the ability to take up space and disrupt.