The false opportunity cost of 11.6

[ephmrl]

I miss this guy.

 

[LickTheEnvelope]

Since the all-star game last year it almost feels like the Pettersson we had was a top 5 NHL center and we have watched him relegate his play down to a top 3rd line center. I mean he's not a garbage player, he just simply isn't a top line center and his playoff play really showed that where Lindholm (who is now terrible again) was the far superior center.

So the problem now, as a fan, is do you want to see Pettersson plug along like a 3rd liner? Once you get past this season the value of trading him falls off a cliff, even if his play does improve.

If you can package a Pettersson and get a Dobson+ ... is the offense next game really even all that affected?

I don't know if Pettersson has just totally checked out from Tocchet as well but it doesn't seem like he wants to be a top player on the team.

 

[DiggerDan]

Since the all-star game last year it almost feels like the Pettersson we had was a top 5 NHL center and we have watched him relegate his play down to a top 3rd line center. I mean he's not a garbage player, he just simply isn't a top line center and his playoff play really showed that where Lindholm (who is now terrible again) was the far superior center.

So the problem now, as a fan, is do you want to see Pettersson plug along like a 3rd liner? Once you get past this season the value of trading him falls off a cliff, even if his play does improve.

If you can package a Pettersson and get a Dobson+ ... is the offense next game really even all that affected?

I don't know if Pettersson has just totally checked out from Tocchet as well but it doesn't seem like he wants to be a top player on the team.

I understand where you're coming from, but the problem I have with this logic is the same one I with the idea of replacing Petey with Barzal. They're just not good enough to make us a contender. You need (imo) a 100 pt Petey or someone of comparable skill and production PLUS a Barzal, Dobson, etc. They are both 50-80 point producers, and we can't afford another JT like trade. While it's obviously a big risk and difficult to have patience for, I still believe we give Petey more time.

 

[LickTheEnvelope]

I understand where you're coming from, but the problem I have with this logic is the same one I with the idea of replacing Petey with Barzal. They're just not good enough to make us a contender. You need (imo) a 100 pt Petey or someone of comparable skill and production PLUS a Barzal, Dobson, etc. They are both 50-80 point producers, and we can't afford another JT like trade. While it's obviously a big risk and difficult to have patience for, I still believe we give Petey more time.

Petey is on pace for 55 points this year.

If you look at the playoffs last year he was tied for 5th on forward in points with 1 goal and 6 points in 13 games (about the same as his 55 point season pace this year).

He was behind:
Miller and Boeser with 12 points each
Lindholm with 10 points
Joshua with 8 points
you also had Garland with 5 points.

Hughes had 10 points and Zadorov was a monster with 8 points.

The point is, even on a successful run that almost got the team (missing Demko!) into a Western final they basically had the shitty Petterrson now but at far less cost.

Imagine Pettersson is now never a 100 point player again on the Canucks but more like a 70 point average player. Is he worth the $11+ mil?

 

[docbenton]

Petey is on pace for 55 points this year.

If you look at the playoffs last year he was tied for 5th on forward in points with 1 goal and 6 points in 13 games (about the same as his 55 point season pace this year).

He was behind:
Miller and Boeser with 12 points each
Lindholm with 10 points
Joshua with 8 points
you also had Garland with 5 points.

Hughes had 10 points and Zadorov was a monster with 8 points.

The point is, even on a successful run that almost got the team (missing Demko!) into a Western final they basically had the shitty Petterrson now but at far less cost.

Imagine Pettersson is now never a 100 point player again on the Canucks but more like a 70 point average player. Is he worth the $11+ mil?

Exactly. They absolute do not need Pettersson to be a contender. They also don't need an 100 pt center. They are good now and he's been giving them nothing for a long time. There are different ways to build your team, and Vancouver should be built around Hughes, team defense, puck possession/retrieval and goaltending.

The Blues won with their top center getting 77 points. Barkov last year had 80. You do need a mix of guys who have the speed, skill and power to penetrate through tight defenses in the playoffs, but it doesn't mean anyone needs 100 points the regular season.

 

[racerjoe]

Petey is on pace for 55 points this year.

If you look at the playoffs last year he was tied for 5th on forward in points with 1 goal and 6 points in 13 games (about the same as his 55 point season pace this year).

He was behind:
Miller and Boeser with 12 points each
Lindholm with 10 points
Joshua with 8 points
you also had Garland with 5 points.

Hughes had 10 points and Zadorov was a monster with 8 points.

The point is, even on a successful run that almost got the team (missing Demko!) into a Western final they basically had the shitty Petterrson now but at far less cost.

Imagine Pettersson is now never a 100 point player again on the Canucks but more like a 70 point average player. Is he worth the $11+ mil?

Throw last year out though… it’s pretty clear last year he had a significant injury that was confirmed.

If you don’t like his play this season fine, he has not been good, but making assumptions based on last year is how you get burned badly.

 

[canuckslover10]

Just f***ING sit him and let him rehab why is this so hard???

 

[coastal_nuck]

He's choosing to play in the 4 nations... what does that tell you about his "injury" that requires rehab?

 

[CanucksSayEh]

EP in 'rehab'

 

[AzNightmare]

The Blues team was an outlier and was running on a heater. If I recall, they were dead last at one point in that season. Where has the team been since? That's not a repeatable strategy unless we're banking on Canucks being a one-hit wonder and getting very lucky.

Barkov with only had 80 pts, but the skill surrounding him wasn't mediocre.
Reinhart with 94
Tkachuk with 88
Verhaghe with 72


I'm not sure who on the Canucks are going to be generating those kind of ppg numbers around Chytil.

 

[docbenton]

The Blues team was an outlier and was running on a heater. If I recall, they were dead last at one point in that season. Where has the team been since? That's not a repeatable strategy unless we're banking on Canucks being a one-hit wonder and getting very lucky.

Barkov with only had 80 pts, but the skill surrounding him wasn't mediocre.
Reinhart with 94
Tkachuk with 88
Verhaghe with 72


I'm not sure who on the Canucks are going to be generating those kind of ppg numbers around Chytil.

Vegas won with Jack Eichel leading the team with 66 points in the regular season.

 

[SniperOnTheWing]

Vegas won with Jack Eichel leading the team with 66 points in the regular season.

In 67 games

 

[docbenton]

In 67 games

Well no one else had more on that team no matter how many games they played.

And remember that they convincingly beat a team that in the regular season had a player with 153 points and another that had 128.

 

[DiggerDan]

Exactly. They absolute do not need Pettersson to be a contender. They also don't need an 100 pt center. They are good now and he's been giving them nothing for a long time. There are different ways to build your team, and Vancouver should be built around Hughes, team defense, puck possession/retrieval and goaltending.

The Blues won with their top center getting 77 points. Barkov last year had 80. You do need a mix of guys who have the speed, skill and power to penetrate through tight defenses in the playoffs, but it doesn't mean anyone needs 100 points the regular season.

Guys, these aren't great examples. Barkov is/was supported by high end depth (Tkachuk, Reinhart), and the Blues are an outlier. Eichel is a star and also supported by high end depth.

My point isn't that his current play is good enough. I just think it's a better bet to take the risk on Petey because we know the potential is there, and that we won't get enough in trade return.

 

[docbenton]

Guys, these aren't great examples. Barkov is/was supported by high end depth (Tkachuk, Reinhart), and the Blues are an outlier. Eichel is a star and also supported by high end depth.

My point isn't that his current play is good enough. I just think it's a better bet to take the risk on Petey because we know the potential is there, and that we won't get enough in trade return.

And my point is we can get a combination of assets in return that will help the team far more than Petey ever will, even if none of them ever scores close to 100 points. We could be a really fast, strong and deep team without him.

 

[nowhereman]

This being the DeFacto Pettersson thread, I thought I would go back and post some Demko takes as a parallel.

With Demko, it was feared that he might never recover, and he was being outplayed by a lesser talent. Sound familiar?

(These are not to call anyone out, it's just about preaching patience)



Man, Demko just does not look comfortable. Have to think about moving on from him - he has no trade protection and you have to think a team will take a flyer. That $5M could go a long way next season.

Maybe his way out is to play like shit so its not overly difficult to trade for him.

will it be more or less feisty if, at the draft, rumors float that the vehicles (car and van) are making a trade and after a longer than necessary period we finally get the big announcement: Demko with retention for a low pick and meh prospect. honestly, demko was second in the vezina voting...

Demko traded for whatever his value is—and re-signing Lankinen to be our 1A

Float Demko on the market and re-sign Lankinen.

Demko maybe to Buffalo for ? a pick. His injury past haunts his value but the team could get valuable cap space.

i've been worried for years that demko could go full john gibson on us at any point, and that unfortunately appears to be happening right now

add in murmurs of him being potentially unhappy for the first time in his career... moving him would be my first move from allvin's chair

First moves should be to sell Boeser, Demko and Suter asap.

Demko is damaged goods. You’re not getting vezina finalist demko or bubble demko. You’re getting, a goalie who has an injury that he has to play through cause it won’t heal 100% demko. If your the Canucks, you should trade him while he has any value.

I doubt anyone is offering value for Demko. I would offer him for a conditional 1st rounder on the contingency that the team makes it to the 2nd round or whatever. I doubt you are getting an unprotected 1st for him.

I understand why fans want to build around Quinn but he’s leaving this mess in 2 years so we should absolutely trade him for a haul. Trade EP Trade JT Trade Boeser Trade Demko The core is cooked and the time lines of contracts and rebuilds don’t line up.

Read that he wants out of Vancouver too, good luck having trade value when broken

Still can't fathom why they went back to Demko.....without Lankinen, they wouldn't even be where they're at, which is still hovering around the cut line. They must be trying to pump up Demko's trade value--there can't be any other reason.

Gotta see what we still have with him, if this is the new normal, he's trade bait and/or we almost certainly will not renew his contract.

Marky out w a knee sprain. Send Demko to them for a D prospect

Every game that goes by the more convinced I get that he is either back way too soon because he doesn't know how to plant through the injury OR he simply will never be 100%.

I wouldn't be upset to see demko on waivers and tocchet fired tomorrow

Demko trade and Lankinen re-signing.

The cumulative impact of all the surgeries and injuries is making that increasingly a long-shot. The unfortunate truth is that Demko is probably closer to a 'buy-out' than he is to recovering his form, or being event remotely attractive on the trade front.

As far as I’m concerned, demko is damaged goods. If I’m Vancouver, I trade him yesterday. If I’m any other team, I don’t even pick up the phone about demko.

trade demko for whhatever. just to get rid of contract and go after ufa goalie. earlier cbc broadcast was talking about thompson/lindgren becoming ufas in the summer they both playing well.

Trade Demko for a decent defender. Lankinen is good enough to be #1.

Lankinen is the bonafide starter now. I don't expect Demko to ever be back to his former great self, unfortunately.

If you can trade Boeser for a package where you get a forward and a defenseman that would be fantastic...
Start off with the player or players who you aren't moving forward with first, which is possibly Boeser, Hoglander, Desharnais, Juulsen and maybe Demko.

Get rid of Demko while he's "healthy" and offload Boeser, Suter, Lankinen as well. Goalies are a dime a dozen and we can replace both of them in the offseason with UFAs or via trade.

Why are we trading Lankinen. Demko is one slip on a banana peel and done.
Lankinen needs to be signed and just get rid of Demko for what ever you can get at this point .Time to get rid of some core guys.Miller Boeser Myers Demko ect.

Demko is also a black cloud hanging over the team. He's never gonna be the guy we saw in the Bubble against Vegas again. It's over but he still has one more year on his deal.

The question is whether Demko will be back or not. I think they will try and trade him. I think they've been burnt by his health enough times to let go.

Demko trade and I understand once we trade one, we're immedietly searching for that player again. Thats fine. I believe we could chop up all 4 and come out a better team

Blankenin is our new number 1. Trade Demko now. thats it. give us the extra cap room and we move on.Honestly, I think they'll trade Demko for a pick and keep Lankinen long term. His injury history is ridiculous at this point. He's basically Sami Salo.

Trade Demko to a California team for whatever they want to give up so he can be close to family, and sign Lankinen 3x$3.5M or whatever he wants reasonably. New era coming.

I know this is probably not the time, but I wanted to trade demko last year mostly because I was terrified about his injury, concern , and I still feel he would have a good value. That ship has sailed, I lost trust in him, and I know he’s one of the best goalies in the world.

So I think we trade Demko this offseason He’s done

Demko is now trade bait 100%

His value should be quite high as he's shown he can handle a starter's load. With Demko back, I'd prefer to trade him and get another decent pick, I'd think a 2nd would be a great return considering he was a free asset.

If you can sign Lankinen for a 5x5 do you do it? I do. Then let Demko walk or trade him nice question to have.

Honestly. If a team is willing to trade a late 1st + prospect for Lankinen once Demko is healthy, I think you have to take that deal.

I remember Demko trade being talked about for a rebuild purpose. Seems like it might have been the correct move for a win now plan too, with his health troubles.

Just cause I love hammering this home: Never forget Don Taylor suggesting we trade Demko because Silovs’ performance in the playoffs lol

Yeah, so, anyway... he's injured again.