The Era of "Superteams"...?

[kanucks25]

Build it and they will come.

Like it's been mentioned many times: Florida was a graveyard for most of its existence despite always having the same weather, party scene, taxes, etc. and now it's a top-5 destination.

Players these days perhaps care less about winning than in the past but they still aren't going to sign with a shit organization just because of external factors.

 

[syz]

How is this a different era? How unusual is it that players with NMC decide they don't want to resign with their current teams and want to sign with contenders? That's happened since forever. And 6-8 teams a year being in contention (20%-25% of the league) doesn't feel out of the ordinary either...

As a panthers fan, I don't see our team as a superteam: yes, we've got a stacked top 9 but we have serious holes to fill and not much in terms of assets/money to do it with. Most of our core we either drafted or got them from trades which were largely fair value at the time they were made. Yes, our players genearlly out-performed once they got here but that's hindsight speaking. I think only Marchand and Tarasenko were slam dunk fleecings due to where they wanted to go, and those were both deadline rentals. Matthew, Reinhart, Montour, Bennett, Jones, Luostarinen: I don't think any of those trades were lop-sided because the player "forced his way out". Matthew for Huby/Weeger was a fair trade at the time - Zito didn't force Calgary to then sign them both immediately to huge contracts. And I don't think Brady's trade is particularly lopsided either in terms of value.

This is all just cyclical - just wait until 2030 and I can assure you that the panthers, tampa and vegas will probably all be shit and rebuilding. And the Habs, Ducks, Sharks, Buffalo and Utah will be the "superteams" and we'll all be trying to figure out the narratives around that...

There's like no precedent for that though lol. Anaheim maybe. Canada has had some great teams but every no-trade list in history has been Canada + Buffalo. Nobody's ever requested a trade to Edmonton.

 

[ShootIt]

Leafs fans like him are obnoxious and Viola is clearly a great owner, but there is nuance to this. In 2024, the Panthers had a opertating income (Gross Profit - Operating expenses) of 10 million dollars. For a cup winning team.

Even if that tripled the next season when the won the cup again, that's not great. When the cap rises to 140 million in a couple seasons, if the Panthers were to continue being a cap team, they'd actually dip into negative operating income if they didn't achieve significant gains in profit.

If all Viola cares about is giving Panthers fans a winning team, that's awesome. But negative operating income will affect the year-over-year valuation of the Panthers as an investment property, and it will only grow as the cap rises if the Panthers keep spending to the cap.

Well, I can say the cost of tickets has been rising. I'm not a STH but know a handful who have stated they've increased. I believe since last year the increase was 40%.
Also the Panthers do not own Amerant, but run the operations for it. From the Panthers to events.
I want to say they also took over operations of the parking/game day operations which nets them 12-15m in profits.
Better deal from the county where they get 25mil annually to operate the arena compared to 6mil on last deal.
Viola has spent some money, I'm sure for benefits, in getting the War Memorial going in Fort Lauderdale and last year they got exclusive rights for 90 acres of development around the arena.
The practice rink they put in the War Memorial, and it's close to where the top players live and in general they've spent a lot of non payroll money as well upgrading the practice areas for the players from the rinks to the locker rooms, staff, chefs, trainers, workout equip etc...

So at the moment he seems very invested in the area. And I have to wonder how they do their accounting with the arena, and all the concerts it has as well. So the team net may not be that much over, but I think with arena events, it could be very profitable in the bigger picture owning the team/running operations at Amerant

 

[Strangle]

With this new trend of superstar players not only forcing themselves away from teams they don't wnat to be on, and on to teams that are Cup contenders, have we reached an "era of superteams." It feels like it because honestly if you look at the NHL landscape right now it only feels like about 8 teams have a real shot at the Cup next season.

Assuming this is the case, it's never been more important to have draft picks and hit on them and think longer-term. Because teams like Colorado, Vegas, Florida, Carolina, Dallas, Minnesota, etc are going nowhere in the short-term.

It’s only a matter of time before one or two of these trades dont work out

Maybe the first one is Brady. He is not a superstar, adding him anywhere doesn’t create a super team

 

[SavBigMoneyAtBedards]

There's like no precedent for that though lol. Anaheim maybe. Canada has had some great teams but every no-trade list in history has been Canada + Buffalo. Nobody's ever requested a trade to Edmonton.

Duncan Keith asked to be traded to somewhere in Western Canada so he could be closer to his kid for his final season.

 

[periferal]

It’s only a matter of time before one or two of these trades dont work out

Maybe the first one is Brady. He is not a superstar, adding him anywhere doesn’t create a super team

I think you're missing the point.

The point is that it's not one player...It's that good/great/elite players with full NMC's want out of average teams, and are forcing their way to the already best teams in the league.

 

[Matty Sundin]

2022 and 2023 especially in the east post trade deadlines had a lot of teams that looked like super teams on paper.

 

[MM425]

I don’t think we are there yet but with the cap going up dramatically, it’s easy to see how the NHL could slide into what the NBA has been like.

McDavid and Matthews will most likely orchestrate moves to contending teams in the next year or two.

Then what happens with teams in limbo or decide to pursue a total rebuild? Pasternak has expressed frustration. Winnipeg’s core players come to mind. Jack Hughes if New Jersey does not get back on track.

With each successful trade request, you have to wonder how much of the norm it will become. The trade market and perhaps even the league will become defined by a short list “have” teams and a long list of “have nots”.

 

[Viqsi]

If the NHL moves competitively to a superleague model that will be the end of my relationship with hockey.

I don't think it's going to happen, but I genuinely don't know how much of that assessment is motivated reasoning w/r/t not wanting to have yet another thing that once brought me joy become, once again, something that only brings me frustration and sadness such that I have to walk away. Had far too f***ing much of that lately.

I will not accept a world in which the loudmouth asshats who take such pleasure in telling me over and over "STFU, you're worthless and know nothing, you cheer for a farm team" get to be unimpeachably correct in their asshattery. I'd rather burn the whole f***ing world down.

 

[IdleTraveller]

If the NHL moves competitively to a superleague model that will be the end of my relationship with hockey.

I don't think it's going to happen, but I genuinely don't know how much of that assessment is motivated reasoning w/r/t not wanting to have yet another thing that once brought me joy become, once again, something that only brings me frustration and sadness such that I have to walk away. Had far too f***ing much of that lately.

I will not accept a world in which the loudmouth asshats who take such pleasure in telling me over and over "STFU, you're worthless and know nothing, you cheer for a farm team" get to be unimpeachably correct in their asshattery. I'd rather burn the whole f***ing world down.

Try being told for over 20 years that your team is a joke and should be relocated to Quebec City because hockey doesn't belong in the south, and the only hockey players who sign with your team are there just for the paycheck and sunshine before they retire. And yes, there are only six of you anyway so who the f*** cares. Fun times.

 

[Viqsi]

Try being told for over 20 years that your team is a joke and should be relocated to Quebec City because hockey doesn't belong in the south, and the only hockey players who sign with your team are there just for the paycheck and sunshine before they retire. And yes, there are only six of you anyway so who the f*** cares. Fun times.

Hi. I'm a Jackets fan. I have been told all of those things and more. Yes, including the "hockey doesn't belong in the south" bit because there genuinely were folks who thought we were a Southern team.

I have a great deal of empathy for Panthers fans who've been through that crap as well. I'd just prefer not getting shade thrown at us while they go after the asshole legion that ruled for so long.

 

[IdleTraveller]

Hi. I'm a Jackets fan. I have been told all of those things and more. Yes, including the "hockey doesn't belong in the south" bit because there genuinely were folks who thought we were a Southern team.

I have a great deal of empathy for Panthers fans who've been through that crap as well. I'd just prefer not getting shade thrown at us while they go after the asshole legion that ruled for so long.

LOL! Rather shaky grasp of geography there...

All this is cyclical - as I've said before, we'll be terrible in a few years and then the "superteams" that all players will be want to be traded to will be the Habs, Utah, Sharks etc. Part of the natural order of things - I don't see this period as being any different. Hopefully Columbus will get there - you've had more than your fair share of misfortunes.

 

[Vegaspunk]

Who just won the cup?

Fr this is a strange time to be having this conversation when Carolina was very much not a superteam lol

Now if Larkin manages to strong arm his way to the Wild or Robertson ends up going to another contender then we start talking

 

[Terry Yake]

looking like its heading that way with everyone wanting to play in vegas, florida, or minny

maybe we'll even get a televised "decision" by a star player announcing he's signing with one of those teams soon

 

[Strangle]

I think you're missing the point.

The point is that it's not one player...It's that good/great/elite players with full NMC's want out of average teams, and are forcing their way to the already best teams in the league.

The only way to swing the pendulum back is to give teams more power and take power away from the players.

I agree with doing that, but it’s a very unpopular take here in the forums.

Has everyone finished laughing at the leafs for Marner going to Vegas now? Or is that still super cool?

Maybe the league needs to limit the amount of NMC and NTC a team can carry. I can’t stand a team not getting full value for their players because the player has them over a barrel and there can’t be a market for them where the highest bidder wins

 

[PuckFegula]

f***in dinosaur-ass bettman has gotta fix the tax issue, mainstream podcasts (pardon my take) mention it now.

Gary: “Well gee, just have their accountant help ‘em dodge taxes like I do! Woodeedoo, loopholes! I’m glad the rich write the rules!”

 

[Freaky Styley]

lots to unpack here.

First of all, Zito deserves all the credit in the world for making the Panthers a powerhouse before they were gifted sweetheart contracts and talented players. Ultimately his first big deal to land Matthew Tkachuk has led us to today.

Secondly, isn't this kind of the natural arc of parity? Lots of teams feel like they are in it, but in reality there are 3-4 that are clearly better when the rubber meets the road. This will only become more apparent with expansion and talent dilution. But in reality, hasn't it always been the case that there are 3-4 favorites to start the year?

Another fact is that the Avs and the Canes are the only teams since COVID to win the Cup without utilizing LTIR. Probably a moot point with the rising cap but that's no longer an advantage these things have. While well run teams and always 'in the mix' with player acquisition, both franchises have had difficulty recruting players and have often ended up the bridesmaid.

Overall, I don't see how this changes anything other than teams being more wary of who they draft. There will be more emphasis put on character for smaller market/Canadian teams, especially when drafting a player from outside their home country. It will create more heavy underdogs and maybe more drama if there's an upset.

I really only see Florida as 'the problem' in the short term. There is a changing of the guard coming with Anaheim, Montreal, Chicago and San Jose taking up the torch. Teams like Colorado, Dallas, Vegas etc aren't winning anything anytime soon, and the Hurricanes have got there on pure front office competency. At the end of the day, that's all any franchise needs.

 

[Beukeboom Fan]

I think you're missing the point.

The point is that it's not one player...It's that good/great/elite players with full NMC's want out of average teams, and are forcing their way to the already best teams in the league.

Only possible with the huge increase in cap. When the payroll normalizes activity like this will settle down.

Everyone needs to hope that Yzerman hold Larkins feet to the fire until the Wings get what they feel is full value. Sens were in a tough spot with only 2 years until UFA status. GMs need to defend the integrity of the contract.

 

[MMC]

I sure hope so. Would be the most interesting league development in awhile. I for one find the playoffs being an annual mid-off quite boring

 

[LeafGrief]

I sure hope so. Would be the most interesting league development in awhile. I for one find the playoffs being an annual mid-off quite boring

For real. My team is mid AF, your team is mid, 29 other teams are mid, and we have to spend 75% of the season watching mid-ass Tuesday night games brought to you by Bet99! Parity is stale. Rivalries are completely dead, and if your team hires a bozo GM who signs a boat anchor of a contract, your team is completely f***ed for half a decade! Woohoo! It would be funny that bad contracts are the only non-parity item in the league if they weren't so frustrating.

Let's not pretend the Leafs would be any good in a non-parity league either, our suck finds a way.

The era of build-rebuild was fun, but as an entertainment product, I've seen this episode before. Too much of the league's competitive landscape is determined by quality of management. Depth, rather than talent, reigns supreme. I don't think superteams are the right way to go for long term league health, but I think it's time for the parity to be relaxed a bit so that the league's competition can grow in other ways.

 

[GoldenSeal]

Remove the hard cap. Reduce revenue sharing. Leafs ( and a few others) have subsidized this league way too long now. Leafs can exceed $200M in payroll. Can Panthers? No.

Leafs could spend a billion and still miss the playoffs.

 

[Deranged Oreo]

What am I missing? I don't see a single "super team" in this league.

Florida? They don't even have a goalie for next season yet

 

[MK9]

Right. Because this is a new thing...

The 90's Red Wings, Avs and to a slightly lesser degree, the Devils were far more stacked than anything we've seen since.

 

[LeafGrief]

This is also a consequence of the Cup being considered the only worthwhile achievement. The Preds hung a division banner and got absolutely clowned on. The Leafs core4 generation made the playoffs for almost a decade and are pretty thoroughly hated (I regularly write unhinged rants about them). In a 32 team league, "win or bust" creates incentive for the players, who are extremely competitive, to mobilize themselves to win. Fans want that to mean taking less to stay (because contracts are the only real competitive edge/disadvantage in the parity league), but it's pretty basic logic for a player who's thinking of an eight year commitment during their prime that if they want to win they need to be very selective about where they commit.

I have no idea how to unravel this particular problem, but parity and cup-or-bust do NOT work together.

 

[Viqsi]

I sure hope so. Would be the most interesting league development in awhile. I for one find the playoffs being an annual mid-off quite boring

For real. My team is mid AF, your team is mid, 29 other teams are mid, and we have to spend 75% of the season watching mid-ass Tuesday night games brought to you by Bet99! Parity is stale. Rivalries are completely dead, and if your team hires a bozo GM who signs a boat anchor of a contract, your team is completely f***ed for half a decade! Woohoo! It would be funny that bad contracts are the only non-parity item in the league if they weren't so frustrating.

Let's not pretend the Leafs would be any good in a non-parity league either, our suck finds a way.

The era of build-rebuild was fun, but as an entertainment product, I've seen this episode before. Too much of the league's competitive landscape is determined by quality of management. Depth, rather than talent, reigns supreme. I don't think superteams are the right way to go for long term league health, but I think it's time for the parity to be relaxed a bit so that the league's competition can grow in other ways.

I am fundamentally not okay with anything that potentially retroactively designates either of my teams (or any others) as explicit second-class citizens; I find the very idea abhorrent to even contemplate, let alone advocate for. That's not "interesting competition", that's "the same folks playing the same games for the same ends again and again and again and again and again and again". It's boring AF.