Salary Cap: The Endless Speculation Edition

[molon labe]

The first but depends on the names. Geno with 2 speedy responsible wingers that can finish, even if not ideal top 6ers + legit 2nd pairing that can get him the puck and play int he Ozone is greater than a more dynamic winger with Geno and lesser D pairings.

That said, Marino is looking good so I probably need more time and would need to know who is available.

I don't see Geno as needing speedy wingers like Sid does.

Geno hangs on to the puck for an extra move or three - pretty much always. Someone who's a step slower would do just fine on his line as there's no need to race to the blueline for a pass that's not coming - or to race into the corners for a chip and chase that isn't happening.

What he needs is a big power forward who can carve through the middle with him, hold their own at the blueline for his drop pass, and bang around in the zone to keep a play alive. Ideally that guy has a shot - but even a nice scoring touch would be great.

 

[Empoleon8771]

The first but depends on the names. Geno with 2 speedy responsible wingers that can finish, even if not ideal top 6ers + legit 2nd pairing that can get him the puck and play int he Ozone is greater than a more dynamic winger with Geno and lesser D pairings.

That said, Marino is looking good so I probably need more time and would need to know who is available.

But here's the thing worth considering though, how long do you think it will take for Pettersson and Marino to both be legit top-4 caliber D? If you think they'll be of that caliber by maybe 21-22, as in they'd only have a season of being a "bad" 2nd pair, would you really want to commit $6 million and probably term to a top-4 D?

Personally, I think they have more upside on defense right now than at forward. That's why it's an interesting question to me, because if you sign a top-4 D, they could become redundant within a year. I don't think it's super likely that McCann or Kahun would make a top-6 winger redundant, but I would be surprised if Pettersson and Marino don't make the #3D redundant.

 

[Extra Texture]

LeBrun talking about Carolina moving TVR or Fleury for help at forward. Any chance we could get in on that now that we're healthy up front and have at least Lafferty ready to break out?

I dont suppose they'd be interested in Big Bad Bjug?

 

[WayneSid9987]

LeBrun talking about Carolina moving TVR or Fleury for help at forward. Any chance we could get in on that now that we're healthy up front and have at least Lafferty ready to break out?

I dont suppose they'd be interested in Big Bad Bjug?

Naw. Could see them interested in Chucky, Horny tho...
Watch them get Zucker...

 

[Shady Machine]

But here's the thing worth considering though, how long do you think it will take for Pettersson and Marino to both be legit top-4 caliber D? If you think they'll be of that caliber by maybe 21-22, as in they'd only have a season of being a "bad" 2nd pair, would you really want to commit $6 million and probably term to a top-4 D?

Personally, I think they have more upside on defense right now than at forward. That's why it's an interesting question to me, because if you sign a top-4 D, they could become redundant within a year. I don't think it's super likely that McCann or Kahun would make a top-6 winger redundant, but I would be surprised if Pettersson and Marino don't make the #3D redundant.

I think this year and next are the best chances to win another Cup, so yes I would rather stack the D than a better winger. Another point to consider:

As good as Geno is, he is less important to the team's success than Letang IMO. That isn't a knock on Geno, that's a knock on the rest of the defense given the system Sully like to play and the roster he prefers. Both are injury prone. So if I am building a roster, I have to consider what is the best team when healthy AND the best team when one or both of those guys goes down for 10-20 games.

I think you posed an interesting question and I don't have a definite answer. I just lean to defense without knowing the future and/or what names are available.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

15 games in and we need a top 6 winger, and we've had a series of injuries to key players, and the PP stinks.

Shocking. Truly.

 

[Peat]

What moment had Johnson, Blueger and Guentzel on the ice together celebrating a goal, PK or PP unit 2? Weird mix of players right there, 3rd/4th line center, 1st line winger and a 7th defenseman

Blueger had a goal a few games back on a partial line change where he got a tic-tac-toe goal with assists for Guentzel and Simon. I don't know if JJ was on ice for it but it seems likely he was and it was that goal.

I don't see Geno as needing speedy wingers like Sid does.

Geno hangs on to the puck for an extra move or three - pretty much always. Someone who's a step slower would do just fine on his line as there's no need to race to the blueline for a pass that's not coming - or to race into the corners for a chip and chase that isn't happening.

What he needs is a big power forward who can carve through the middle with him, hold their own at the blueline for his drop pass, and bang around in the zone to keep a play alive. Ideally that guy has a shot - but even a nice scoring touch would be great.

I can't formulate a style argument against this off the top of my head which is weird to me as speedy wingers have made a far, far bigger impact on Geno's productivity since Sully got here than they have to Sid.

LeBrun talking about Carolina moving TVR or Fleury for help at forward. Any chance we could get in on that now that we're healthy up front and have at least Lafferty ready to break out?

I dont suppose they'd be interested in Big Bad Bjug?

TVR, no interest. We have three starting RD already, he's not better than them, would just be a lateral move that doesn't make us better. And while I have some mild interest in Fleury because he's got a high ceiling if he puts it together, is big and cheap, and a second Fleury here would be amusing... I'm not sure he improves us that much either. And I'm not sure whether I'm willing to move Riikola and the forward Carolina want for him, and I'm not sure whether going through the rigmarole of dealing JJ and getting Fleury would be workable either.

 

[Louis Hensler]

Naw. Could see them interested in Chucky, Horny tho...
Watch them get Zucker...

Would be interested in giving Chucky for either of those guys, but Carolina probably doesn't have the cap space. More interested in Fleury since he's a younger RFA and a left shot. (We seem pretty set on the right.)

 

[Peat]

I think this year and next are the best chances to win another Cup, so yes I would rather stack the D than a better winger. Another point to consider:

As good as Geno is, he is less important to the team's success than Letang IMO. That isn't a knock on Geno, that's a knock on the rest of the defense given the system Sully like to play and the roster he prefers. Both are injury prone. So if I am building a roster, I have to consider what is the best team when healthy AND the best team when one or both of those guys goes down for 10-20 games.

I think you posed an interesting question and I don't have a definite answer. I just lean to defense without knowing the future and/or what names are available.

The bolded are key to my feelings right now. I'm not interested in running gambles for now that might pay off big later, even if its short term later - not unless they're the best gambles today as well. And I am totally okay in getting players who might be redundant in a very short time, because as long as they're still good players with good value when they become redundant, then there's a strong trade position and that can work out for us - and because most crucially, I'm not willing to miss out on opportunities in that time we don't have the player.

If we get a top 4 D and Empo is right that we have more upside on D and it comes through quick then cool. Dmen have the most trade value if we need to reinforce the forwards, dmen play the most minutes if they don't. Having 5 or 6 top 4 dmen sound great to me twenty games into the season sounds great to me.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

15 games in and we need a top 6 winger, and we've had a series of injuries to key players, and the PP stinks.

Shocking. Truly.

You think so?

I think we have the players we need, I really don't think the players are the issue here.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

You think so?

I think we have the players we need, I really don't think the players are the issue here.

I like the energy, a lot. But the roster needs some tweaking.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

I like the energy, a lot. But the roster needs some tweaking.

There's definitely some major issues with the line-up choices with who plays with whom and why certain guys aren't scratched, which in the end, comes down to the coaching staff and their decisions on how to use those players.

That's where I see the issues. When even Jack Johnson isn't your normal scapegoat or massive issue anymore, people default to "oh, our top 6 sucks...JR! That monster!"

 

[ChaosAgent]

I don't see Geno as needing speedy wingers like Sid does.

Geno hangs on to the puck for an extra move or three - pretty much always. Someone who's a step slower would do just fine on his line as there's no need to race to the blueline for a pass that's not coming - or to race into the corners for a chip and chase that isn't happening.

What he needs is a big power forward who can carve through the middle with him, hold their own at the blueline for his drop pass, and bang around in the zone to keep a play alive. Ideally that guy has a shot - but even a nice scoring touch would be great.

Geno needs a speedy winger to get in first on the forecheck and create havoc...therefore creating space for Malkin to be the 2nd man in and collect the puck with some time & space. That's more important than his creative partner...at the very least it's more foundational to an effective Geno line.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

That's where I see the issues. When even Jack Johnson isn't your normal scapegoat or massive issue anymore, people default to "oh, our top 6 sucks...JR! That monster!"

I cant speak for anyone else, but I've had issues with the make-up of the top 6 and PP since the summer, and said as much.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

I cant speak for anyone else, but I've had issues with the make-up of the top 6 and PP since the summer, and said as much.

Good thing the coaching staff made "changes" to "fix" the "powerplay" and all that...

As for the top 6, it's still the same issues, we had a top 6 winger, tried to make him a 3rd line winger, we now have a top 6 winger that we're also trying to make a 3rd line winger for some reason and trying bottom 6 wingers in the top 6 and being frustrated watching that.

There's some serious irony to be had there.

 

[ChaosAgent]

we had a top 6 winger, tried to make him a 3rd line winger

Yeah, why didn't they give Malkin-Kessel a shot last year on the second line? Idiots.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Yeah, why didn't they give Malkin-Kessel a shot last year on the second line? Idiots.

It's that fantastic narrow mindedness that we need more of man, got a winger? Try him in two spots he isn't good in and say you've exhausted all options and call it a day.

You go girl.

Also, the 2nd part was about Hornqvist, who goes L2 and L3 but should be L1 or L2 as options. Meanwhile, Simon is ok for spurts, Rust shouldn't be near the 2nd or 1st line...and the team called up Lafferty to sit him while Aston-Reese continues to play.

But yeah, sure...hurr durr, Kessel.

 

[ChaosAgent]

It's that fantastic narrow mindedness that we need more of man, got a winger? Try him in two spots he isn't good in and say you've exhausted all options and call it a day.

You go girl.

Also, the 2nd part was about Hornqvist, who goes L2 and L3 but should be L1 or L2 as options. Meanwhile, Simon is ok for spurts, Rust shouldn't be near the 2nd or 1st line...and the team called up Lafferty to sit him while Aston-Reese continues to play.

But yeah, sure...hurr durr, Kessel.

Narrow-minded? You implied they didn't try.

Also, "Rust shouldn't be near the 2nd or 1st line..." What?

 

[Gurglesons]

Narrow-minded? You implied they didn't try.

Also, "Rust shouldn't be near the 2nd or 1st line..." What?

It’s HoG. He makes no sense.

 

[Gurglesons]

15 games in and we need a top 6 winger, and we've had a series of injuries to key players, and the PP stinks.

Shocking. Truly.

Who exactly needs to be replaced in our top six?

 

[molon labe]

Geno needs a speedy winger to get in first on the forecheck and create havoc...therefore creating space for Malkin to be the 2nd man in and collect the puck with some time & space. That's more important than his creative partner...at the very least it's more foundational to an effective Geno line.

You can see things unfolding tonight... I don't understand this argument (a remnant of Hagelin?)...Geno has been carrying the puck to the blueline himself pretty much every shift- he then makes a drop pass or quick pass to the corner. He needs a big 6 foot+ forward to collect that and battle in the zone. They never play chip and chase to have a reason for a speedy forward on his line. A good forechecker? Sure. However - his line always plays slower than Sid's line does.

 

[ChaosAgent]

You can see things unfolding tonight... I don't understand this argument (a remnant of Hagelin?)...Geno has been carrying the puck to the blueline himself pretty much every shift- he then makes a drop pass or quick pass to the corner. He needs a big 6 foot+ forward to collect that and battle in the zone. They never play chip and chase to have a reason for a speedy forward on his line. A good forechecker? Sure. However - his line always plays slower than Sid's line does.

We have that guy. It's Bjugstad. I'm sure at some point they'll give it a test-drive this season unless they trade Bjugs first.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

15 games in and we need a top 6 winger, and we've had a series of injuries to key players, and the PP stinks.

Shocking. Truly.

My concern about lacking that one more "elite" player seems to be showing up in these games where the Pens generate a bunch of chances, but can't finish. I think missing that one extra game breaker is going to cost the Pens some games this year.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Who exactly needs to be replaced in our top six?

I have serious doubts about how AG replaces PK. I was told that the PP difference would be negligible and chemistry with Malkin would overcome PK's raw talent.

There's a whole lot of season left, but the early returns haven't been encouraging.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

My concern about lacking that one more "elite" player seems to be showing up in these games where the Pens generate a bunch of chances, but can't finish. I think missing that one extra game breaker is going to cost the Pens some games this year.

Abso-f'ing-lutely.

That was my concern ever since the idea of trading Phil started being entertained.