Player Discussion: The Elvis Thread

[Iron Balls McGinty]

Your memory is short if you thought the two years under Larsen was about scolding and not playing freely. That was a more lax environment than we see under Evason.

Our room has come together for a variety of reasons. We've had a bit of turnover (removing Laine, Roslovic, etc... helped a lot). We've had players coming together after Johnny's passing. We've had renewed focus on building a good room from Evason. And the team is winning. And some good moves like Waddell asking Elvis to focus on rebuilding his relationships with his teammates - if they want to play for you they'll play well for you.

Sometimes locker rooms work despite bad coaching and management, and sometimes locker rooms don't work despite strong coaching and management. It's the players.

Sure, there could be a compnent there but I believe and have always believed Jarmo was the real issue. He always talked like players were worker bees and not human beings.

I think Larsen was way too nice but the removal of bad people from the locker room is key as you mentioned like the 2 names you mentioned. But in regards to Elvis, Jarmo always tried to downplay him and create drama. Elvis was actually playing fairly well at the time when Jarmo pulled his whole "let's demoted him to 3rd string and play Tarasov every night" last season. If he was playing poorly at the time I would get it but he was the best playing golaie on the team at that time.

Players always had animosity towards Jarmo for contract negotiations and I suspect how he treated them as people. That could certainly bleed into the locker room and impact their relationships. People are generally happier when they are surrounded by happier people. It is clear that DW and DE are creating a more empowering environment for players.

I still think the things said about Elvis were overblown and possibly even upper management propaganda to make themselves look better but that management relationship could have led to Elvis and other players just being in a bad mood a lot of the time.

 

[joybang]

A GM doesn’t come out and publicly say he asked a player to be a better teammate if said player wasn’t a locker room problem.

How does this keep being rehashed over and over? From what I can see Elvis has done what they’ve asked of him and he’s playing well. We don’t need to continually make excuses for his poor attitude in the past.

 

[Iron Balls McGinty]

A GM doesn’t come out and publicly say he asked a player to be a better teammate if said player wasn’t a locker room problem.

How does this keep being rehashed over and over? From what I can see Elvis has done what they’ve asked of him and he’s playing well. We don’t need to continually make excuses for his poor attitude in the past.

People can have their opinions but let's not pretend only one side was at fault here. People don't just magically stop being an A**hole because someone asked them to and I also don't think people try to be an a**hole on purpose in most situations (Babcock for a rare example of actually trying to be one) but things certainly happen because of the influence of environment surrounding them in their workplace or other social situations.

 

[majormajor]

Sure, there could be a compnent there but I believe and have always believed Jarmo was the real issue. He always talked like players were worker bees and not human beings.

I think Larsen was way too nice but the removal of bad people from the locker room is key as you mentioned like the 2 names you mentioned. But in regards to Elvis, Jarmo always tried to downplay him and create drama. Elvis was actually playing fairly well at the time when Jarmo pulled his whole "let's demoted him to 3rd string and play Tarasov every night" last season. If he was playing poorly at the time I would get it but he was the best playing golaie on the team at that time.

Players always had animosity towards Jarmo for contract negotiations and I suspect how he treated them as people. That could certainly bleed into the locker room and impact their relationships. People are generally happier when they are surrounded by happier people. It is clear that DW and DE are creating a more empowering environment for players.

I still think the things said about Elvis were overblown and possibly even upper management propaganda to make themselves look better but that management relationship could have led to Elvis and other players just being in a bad mood a lot of the time.

Your day to day vibe with the people you're working with is going to come from how you relate to those people, not from how you relate to the boss in upper management that you deal with every few weeks and don't see day to day. They see their coaches much more often but even there the locker room vibe can run along or counter to how they relate to their coach. They might even come closer together because they hate their coach.

The Bruins I think are a poorly managed team that has succeeded because of strong player leadership. When the team tried to sign Mitch Miller it was Bergeron and Foligno (who was there at the time) that spoke against it and forced the deal to be terminated.

Our locker room suffered under Jarmo, but not because of his personal attitudes that the players weren't around. It was because he put players in the room that didn't fit.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

A GM doesn’t come out and publicly say he asked a player to be a better teammate if said player wasn’t a locker room problem.

How does this keep being rehashed over and over? From what I can see Elvis has done what they’ve asked of him and he’s playing well. We don’t need to continually make excuses for his poor attitude in the past.

People can have their opinions but let's not pretend only one side was at fault here. People don't just magically stop being an A**hole because someone asked them to and I also don't think people try to be an a**hole on purpose in most situations (Babcock for a rare example of actually trying to be one) but things certainly happen because of the influence of environment surrounding them in their workplace or other social situations.

Both of these things are right, or have some rightness to them.

 

[Iron Balls McGinty]

Your day to day vibe with the people you're working with is going to come from how you relate to those people, not from how you relate to the boss in upper management that you deal with every few weeks and don't see day to day. They see their coaches much more often but even there the locker room vibe can run along or counter to how they relate to their coach. They might even come closer together because they hate their coach.

The Bruins I think are a poorly managed team that has succeeded because of strong player leadership. When the team tried to sign Mitch Miller it was Bergeron and Foligno (who was there at the time) that spoke against it and forced the deal to be terminated.

Our locker room suffered under Jarmo, but not because of his personal attitudes that the players weren't around. It was because he put players in the room that didn't fit.

Which I'd questioned all along but people don't dare question Boone Jenner on these forums apparently.

I think our player leadership is essentially the same is it was last year when it comes down to it. Yes, Boone and Gudbranson have been injured most of the season but by all accounts are still around the team a ton providing leadership. But if we want to talk about player leadership being better this year than last year I wouldn't have an issue if you just hand the C to Z right now if we talk about player leadership in the room being that much different but I know we aren't that serious.

I'm not saying any of them are bad people or bad leaders but I do think the current leadership is empowering them to be better leaders. I feel like Jarmo felt like he needed to rule the room. He is the guy who bought all the square pegs to place in the round of hole of what HE thought the team was supposed to be. DW and DE are letting the players rule the room and be themselves.

Jarmo, Larsen and Vincent wanted players to be who THEY wanted them to be. I feel DW and DE are letting the players be who they are within the framework of guidance to being a team. i.e. you can have your own personal identity but let's find a way to work within the team. I think that is the difference.

There are players who don't like being told to be who they are not. I certainly see Elvis as one of them. He's being coached now in a way where he can still be himself but also getting a good understanding of how things could be better if you do some things differently.

 

[majormajor]

Which I'd questioned all along but people don't dare question Boone Jenner on these forums apparently.

I think our player leadership is essentially the same is it was last year when it comes down to it. Yes, Boone and Gudbranson have been injured most of the season but by all accounts are still around the team a ton providing leadership. But if we want to talk about player leadership being better this year than last year I wouldn't have an issue if you just hand the C to Z right now if we talk about player leadership in the room being that much different but I know we aren't that serious.

I'm not saying any of them are bad people or bad leaders but I do think the current leadership is empowering them to be better leaders. I feel like Jarmo felt like he needed to rule the room. He is the guy who bought all the square pegs to place in the round of hole of what HE thought the team was supposed to be. DW and DE are letting the players rule the room and be themselves.

Jarmo, Larsen and Vincent wanted players to be who THEY wanted them to be. I feel DW and DE are letting the players be who they are within the framework of guidance to being a team. i.e. you can have your own personal identity but let's find a way to work within the team. I think that is the difference.

There are players who don't like being told to be who they are not. I certainly see Elvis as one of them. He's being coached now in a way where he can still be himself but also getting a good understanding of how things could be better if you do some things differently.

You went from one bad theory to another.

Jarmo ruling the locker room? How often do you think he went in the locker room?

Jenner is the leader who got saddled with the misfits who didn't want to play the team game he and others established under the previous core. It's not his fault either. But the more particular point in response to your argument here is that our misfit pieces could do whatever they wanted out there. Be themselves? Sure. Lars was coach, it was a free for all.

You seem to lump in Larsen and Vincent together in your mind, as if we were doing the hardass thing through the whole rebuild. That was just last year.

 

[Iron Balls McGinty]

You went from one bad theory to another.

Jarmo ruling the locker room? How often do you think he went in the locker room?

Jenner is the leader who got saddled with the misfits who didn't want to play the team game he and others established under the previous core. It's not his fault either. But the more particular point in response to your argument here is that our misfit pieces could do whatever they wanted out there. Be themselves? Sure. Lars was coach, it was a free for all.

You seem to lump in Larsen and Vincent together in your mind, as if we were doing the hardass thing through the whole rebuild. That was just last year.

You clearly aren't understanding what I'm trying to say. He was a dominating presence in the organization and I always felt like he talked down to certain players and hyped up his favorites.

Regardless, I don't know what your personal work experience is but I have worked for managers who tried to make myself and others be something they are not and I've worked for managers who allowed me to be myself and grow without trying to change me. The latter is a far happier work place. I could see players being pigeon holed into being a "problem" when the leader controls the public narrative in the former situation. They don't do it on purpose. They aren't really a bad person. They just don't mesh with the leadership style being presented to them and frustrations boil up.

I don't think Elvis was a bad person before and I don't think he's a "better" person now. He's just Elvis and he and everyone else in that locker room are in a much happier environment.

 

[majormajor]

You clearly aren't understanding what I'm trying to say. He was a dominating presence in the organization and I always felt like he talked down to certain players and hyped up his favorites.

That's all true but you're trying to insert that into the explanation for the locker room turmoil and players not getting along with each other, and it's a big stretch.

 

[koteka]

One thing that bothers me about rumors about the locker room is that the so called leaders seemed to have an approach of “this guy doesn’t fit so let’s get rid of him” and management had an attitude of “we built this team and it should be much better than it is” and there was a big disconnect.

I think both sides were to blame.

I don’t give the “leaders” a pass because “get rid of this guy” appeared to become their default move instead of working with guys and helping them become better teammates and players. Getting rid of people is sometimes necessary, but when it is the only thing the leaders seem to do, that is not competent leadership.

The buffoonery of our GM and president and their “win the trade” approach instead of “build a capable team” approach did not help given the behavior of the leaders. Hiring bad coaches was just icing on the cake of dysfunction.

Anyway, it is nice that we seem to have the GM, coach, and players somewhat aligned.

 

[CBJ goalie]

Which I'd questioned all along but people don't dare question Boone Jenner on these forums apparently.

I think our player leadership is essentially the same is it was last year when it comes down to it. Yes, Boone and Gudbranson have been injured most of the season but by all accounts are still around the team a ton providing leadership. But if we want to talk about player leadership being better this year than last year I wouldn't have an issue if you just hand the C to Z right now if we talk about player leadership in the room being that much different but I know we aren't that serious.

I'm not saying any of them are bad people or bad leaders but I do think the current leadership is empowering them to be better leaders. I feel like Jarmo felt like he needed to rule the room. He is the guy who bought all the square pegs to place in the round of hole of what HE thought the team was supposed to be. DW and DE are letting the players rule the room and be themselves.

Jarmo, Larsen and Vincent wanted players to be who THEY wanted them to be. I feel DW and DE are letting the players be who they are within the framework of guidance to being a team. i.e. you can have your own personal identity but let's find a way to work within the team. I think that is the difference.

There are players who don't like being told to be who they are not. I certainly see Elvis as one of them. He's being coached now in a way where he can still be himself but also getting a good understanding of how things could be better if you do some things differently.

Yep, right here.
I don't know if many of you remember of of coach Evason's first official acts was to remove the players pics above their plsyer stalls. He wanted the dressing room to be more about the team, less the individual.
That mindset seems to have worked.

 

[thebus88]

Players not wanting to play in front of their goalie is a much bigger issue than some are still attempting to portray. The idea that players are “past” whatever the issues actually are...or were, in some people’s minds, is ridiculous.

And why are people acting like we didn’t get extremely worse moving on from the past “leaders” than didn’t share positive feelings for the ego driven “superstars”, while keeping some others who clearly feel the same way?

It’s insane that this Elvis drama has somehow turned into people attacking and somehow blaming the people who weren’t actually wrong about Merzlikins in the end. Or that people are still attempting to defend him in any sort of way, even after the comments from Evason and Waddell.

 

[majormajor]

Players not wanting to play in front of their goalie is a much bigger issue than some are still attempting to portray. The idea that players are “past” whatever the issues actually are...or were, in some people’s minds, is ridiculous.

And why are people acting like we didn’t get extremely worse moving on from the past “leaders” than didn’t share positive feelings for the ego driven “superstars”, while keeping some others who clearly feel the same way?

It’s insane that this Elvis drama has somehow turned into people attacking and somehow blaming the people who weren’t actually wrong about Merzlikins in the end. Or that people are still attempting to defend him in any sort of way, even after the comments from Evason and Waddell.

I think we might be moving past it, but other than that I agree.

 

[NotWendell]

For me, he was given a clean slate when DW took over. Maybe he's taking advantage of it?

 

[Fred Glover]

That's all true but you're trying to insert that into the explanation for the locker room turmoil and players not getting along with each other, and it's a big stretch.

Not a stretch at all
It’s called culture
The Cleveland Browns are exhibit A
Culture starts at the top
Attending the STH event tonight and speaking from experience the difference between Jarmo and Waddell is night and day
I have personally worked and witnessed this in places where I have worked
Not a stretch at all

 

[majormajor]

Not a stretch at all
It’s called culture
The Cleveland Browns are exhibit A
Culture starts at the top
Attending the STH event tonight and speaking from experience the difference between Jarmo and Waddell is night and day
I have personally worked and witnessed this in places where I have worked
Not a stretch at all

I believe that culture matters.

I'm not seeing how Jarmo in particular is the reason for the disputes between Elvis and his teammates. Okay, supposing "culture starts at the top" - a cliche but I'll leave that aside - does that mean it starts with the avuncular and very well liked John Davidson, Jarmo's superior? Or with ownership? The problem here is it places everything on someone who might not have any day to day interaction with the players and might never set foot in the locker room. Why not on the coaches who are actually with the players every day?

I've had jobs where my boss caused an overwhelming feeling of tension among the workers, but that's the manager you work with everyday, not the guy who is so far up the line that you barely know him or talk to him, which is basically what Jarmo was to the players. It's not that I don't think it's possible that a boss might find a way to cause workers to hate each other, Babcock loved to do that, but no one can find something, really anything, to connect Jarmo to feuds between players. There's nothing here. And for this sort of critique, you need something. Amorphous character assassination based on lazy cliches is not going to fly.

 

[CBJWerenski8]

Undoubtably there were issues with Elvis and the team in the past.

It appears that they’ve worked through it. As a group and as individuals. They’ve moved on. We can too.

There will be a time for a future of Elvis discussion, but that time isn’t right now. He’s playing well. We’re winning games with him in net. And he’s *knock on wood* staying healthy.

 

[Fred Glover]

Undoubtably there were issues with Elvis and the team in the past.

It appears that they’ve worked through it. As a group and as individuals. They’ve moved on. We can too.

There will be a time for a future of Elvis discussion, but that time isn’t right now. He’s playing well. We’re winning games with him in net. And he’s *knock on wood* staying healthy.

Yes, this!
Their culture has changed and has allowed them to work through it!